leather, end all be all? i think not!

[3ØØ]

Covec is not something new(although i just discovered it), so why is it people on the forums rant, rave, and swear leather? sure its tried and proven, but its 2016, and synthetic fibers have come a long way.

Covec, better abrasion resistance than 1.4mm race leather. yes, i said it.

so why is leather still being used?
discuss. . .

[VaFish]

Do you have a link to an abrasion test?

[3ØØ]

Originally Posted by VaFish

Do you have a link to an abrasion test?

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en-...rowser&q=covec
links to the main Bull-It page pop up, as well as some others. also some youtube videos.
Bull-It jeans are CE approved, not just CE certified.
http://www.bull-it.com/ce
let me look for the actual abrasion test

found out about the material while looking for alternatives to leather riding pants
http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/b...-zip-off-jeans

[VaFish]

Looks promising, but that is all just manufacture hype until I see an independent test results.

Synthetics have some a long way in the last few years and I think they will continue to improve. I think we will soon see some hybrid combinations of leather and synthetic that will provide even more protection. But for now, leather is tried and true and has a long track record of working well.

[3ØØ]

i see what you are saying, but manufacturer hype cant fake CE certifications. Bull-It does not produce the Covec material, they just use it as their protective liner.

i think i am going to get these pants, ill chance it

[VaFish]

From what I have read in the last 30 minutes (and I may be wrong) Bull-It does not have CE Certification or approval. They are "Tested To CE Specifications"

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcyc...-jeans-review/

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcyc...s-approved.htm

I still think they look promising, I'm just not finding (at this point) the independent testing information for me to believe the claim that they are better than leather.

[Panda]

Steel has a higher abrasion resistance than leather as well but nobody rides around in a suit of armor.

There is more to armor than a single metric of abrasion.

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by Panda

Steel has a higher abrasion resistance than leather as well but nobody rides around in a suit of armor.

There is more to armor than a single metric of abrasion.

Actually; they do: it's called a car!

[adouglas]

When those who put gear to extreme tests on a routine basis (e.g. racers who crash often at high speeds) start using this stuff. I'll pay attention.

When notoriously conservative and safety-conscious sactioning organizations like the FIM certify it for use, I'll pay attention.

I've been around too long and seen too many promises to buy "best ever" claims until they're proven in the real world beyond all doubt.

They said similar things about Cordura decades ago. Just sayin'.

Said it before, but it bears repeating. Gear is a personal choice, and ALL gear is a compromise. You pick the attribute most important to you, acknowledge the tradeoffs, and buy based on that. Is leather the be-all and end-all? Not necessarily. But until PROVEN otherwise by repeated real-world experience, I'll stick with what's been proven time and again (and again and again) to work. Ain't broke, don't fix.

[3ØØ]

i guess they dont sell enough yet for competitors to care to do an abrasion test(leather vs bull-it) to try and debunk it.

just wait until we get riders reviews of these after they crash.

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by 3ØØ

i guess they dont sell enough yet for competitors to care to do an abrasion test(leather vs bull-it) to try and debunk it.

just wait until we get riders reviews of these after they crash.

Are you volunteering to be a crash test dummy?

[3ØØ]

Originally Posted by VaFish

Are you volunteering to be a crash test dummy?

on whos bike? lol

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by 3ØØ

on whos bike? lol

I might be picking up my 5th Ninjette this evening. I could spare one for the entertainment.

[3ØØ]

Originally Posted by VaFish

I might be picking up my 5th Ninjette this evening. I could spare one for the entertainment.

ill start with a 30mph low side, or a drag test(which has already been done)

[allanoue]

The drag test behind a car. Save the 250

[JohnnyBravo]

I would def buy a suit if it protected better than leather, but till I see it on track you won't see me with one

[RacinNinja]

I wold rather the company do the drag and crash tests rather than real people being guinea pigs.

There is a reason leather has been the be all end all for 90 years now. It works, it's tough and it's proven.

[JohnnyBravo]

Racers test all sorts of things to get an edge... Don't yôu think someone already tried this not new thing?

[RacinNinja]

OH, and VaFish is right. They aren't CE approved, only tested/certified. Approval is still at least two years away.

[adouglas]

An important question is

"How do you define 'better than leather' or 'as good as leather?'"

There's more going on than how much it takes to wear a hole in the thing. For example, reinforced riding jeans are two-layer pants... Kevlar (or whatever) panels under regular denim.

That means that one off destroys the pants even if the abrasion-resistant layer holds up and remains attached to the denim (not necessarily a given).

I see banged-up suits in use at the track all the time, because they've survived crashes. So leather is "better" in the sense that one crash is not guaranteed to destroy it.

I do think that these things have their place as a practical compromise -- an intermediate step between squidliness and full-on protective gear.

Not everyone is willing to make the behavioral changes necessary to wear leather gear (e.g. changing clothes when you get to your destination, or being willing to wear your gear after you get off your bike). I won't say "able" to make the changes because it is absolutely a choice.

[JohnnyBravo]

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by 3ØØ

on whos bike? lol

You don't need a bike. Just bail out of any vehicle!

[csmith12]

I am confused here... if there was something better/more useable than leather, wouldn't we have already seen it in professional racing by now?

[adouglas]

Careful with reasoning like that. It stifles innovation.

In the 1980s, that logic would have kept McLaren from developing the carbon fiber monocoque chassis.

The flip side of that, and equally insidious, is the fallacy that newer is automatically better.

The essence of the scientific method is to constantly question, try new ideas, and base conclusions on evidence. If what came before is disproven, abandon it... but not until it's disproven.

[csmith12]

Nah... nothing about innovation, think publicity.

If there was something better than leather and viable, then it would have been in a rag, a race, on tv or in some publication somewhere by now. Products are made to solve a problem first, then comes making $$$ off it. If something has been made and proven, where is the "let's make $$$ off it" part at?

[csmith12]

I guess I am saying the same thing as post #9, just different words.

[nickjpass]

I'm open to new things, and if this turned out to be better than leather I would use it too. I'm going to ask my friend the owner of Heroic Racing Apparel about this stuff.

[JohnnyBravo]

@nickjpass we are gonna need a report on that

[nickjpass]

Todd says it's just a kevlar, and he doesn't sound enthusiastic about it replacing leather. He says that companies will rename **** for the trademark on marketing.

[AwDang]

Originally Posted by 3ØØ

ill start with a 30mph low side, or a drag test(which has already been done)

I've crashed a bicycle at that speed wearing spandex.....every one of my on track downs, has been at least double that speed. So your results really won't mean much to me.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by 3ØØ

ill start with a 30mph low side, or a drag test(which has already been done)

Good luck sir!

[Panda]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

Todd says it's just a kevlar, and he doesn't sound enthusiastic about it replacing leather. He says that companies will rename **** for the trademark on marketing.

So I did a quick search and it looks like it's not an aramid like Kevlar. I think it's vectran. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vectran

[3ØØ]

Originally Posted by Panda

So I did a quick search and it looks like it's not an aramid like Kevlar. I think it's vectran. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vectran

you are correct.

even if it does not replace leather, it seems like a better option than kevlar jeans which many people have crashed and walked away without rash

[allanoue]

As it has low resistance to ultraviolet radiation, it should not be used long-term in outdoor environments.

[3ØØ]

Originally Posted by allanoue

As it has low resistance to ultraviolet radiation, it should not be used long-term in outdoor environments.

the question is, how exposed to the UV is it when its lined inside the pants, not in direct sunlight?

[JohnnyBravo]

It's your body wear what ya want too

[csmith12]

300, I just wanna be perfectly clear. I don't wish you any ill will in any shape or form. I give out achievements for the simple act of fun, friendship, a good laugh and to encourage forum participation.

I just want to make sure you know that.

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Good luck sir!

Darn it! I dropped the cannon ball on that one! I was chasing that award and there it was staring me in the face!

[JohnnyBravo]

[3ØØ]

Originally Posted by csmith12

300, I just wanna be perfectly clear. I don't wish you any ill will in any shape or form. I give out achievements for the simple act of fun, friendship, a good laugh and to encourage forum participation.

I just want to make sure you know that.

its all good. no offense taken, i been around forums a while, i know how it goes lol plus, ibhave thick skin, so thick im willing to ride in a pair of bull-it jeans