No spark, after much work, many attempts and tests

[Soris Moto]

Hello guys, i operate a motorcycle repair service and have become quite stumped by two Kawasaki Ninja 250's that both refuse to spark.

The first is a 2010 model that has had its wiring harness swapped. The previous owner caught it on fire by mis-wiring up auxiliary lighting. So a new harness was put on. Everything matches up, plugs up. etc.

The second bike is a 2003 model. Its wiring harness is in great shape.

Neither bike sparks. I can manually spark the coils/plugs by touching a wire to the negative battery terminal and quickly brushing it against the grounding post on the coils. They spark. They all also test within resistance specs.

Both bikes have had their clutch safety switches and kickstand switches tied off or bypassed for testing purposes.

Both bikes' kill switches send all 12v to the coil's positive posts, and correctly cut power if you flip them to off.

Both bikes pickup coils/pulse generators push out adequate a/c voltage and pass the resistance tests. The 03 has a known working take-off.

Both bikes have operational Neutral indicator lights.

The 2010 model, the Previous owner provided an (supposedly) new ECU for it, but does not make a difference.

The 2003 model I have tried 3 different CDI boxes. THREE. What are the odds all three would be bad?

The 2003 model is also sporting an ebay ignition switch. Who knows how accurately these work...



- Lets focus on the 2010 for the moment.

The ECU is receiving 10v from the grey wire coming from the ignition. The brown wire that feeds auxiliary power is sending 12v. This would indicate the internal ignition resistor isn't popped, yeah? Its the stock OEM ignition w/key

If i use my multimeter to monitor whats going on, I place the negative probe at the negative terminal of the battery, and the positive probe at the ignition Coil's top post, where it is actively receiving 12v. As i understand it, the ECU is supposed to ground this circuit and the coil discharges. So i should see a blip in voltage at this post. When attempting to crank, the voltage will drop down to 9 or 10 volts. But my meter is not accurate enough to determine if a full grounding effect is taking place or not.


With all that said, can you guys help me with suggestions of what to do next?

[RacinNinja]

Tied off/bypassed.....

Those circuits should all be completed. IE, a jumper should be connected at all of the plugs for the safety items.

[Soris Moto]

Right that's what was done. The kickstand switch is a 2 wire affair, so the two wires coming off the harness are simply plugged into each other. And the clutch switches are properly jumped.

So those circuits are complete, regardless of what position the hardware is in.

[Motofool]

Welcome, Adam !!!

Something in the circuits must be open or not working properly.
I assume the transmission is in Neutral.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Underst...afety_switches

http://faq.ninja250.org/images/0/07/..._Schematic.pdf

If you are able to produce manual sparks, the problem is not in the source of power or circuit or the coils or plugs.
Either the electronic box is bad or grounded via a safety switch, or not feeling any signal from the pick up coil or the box-coil circuit is open.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by Soris Moto

(SNIP)
The 2003 model is also sporting an ebay ignition switch. Who knows how accurately these work...

Considering everything you've checked, that's what I would suspect as the cause.

There are other threads here where people have had unusual problems due to the ignition switch or wiring.

[1uglybastard]

I know for a fact that a Ninja 636's ignition switch CANNOT be replaced with an aftermarket one. I heard on the other 300 forum that the 300 is the same way. I'm assuming Kawi must do this to most, if not all of their modern bikes.

The ignition has a resistor in it that drops the ignition voltage to 9 or 10 Volts. This tells the ECU that the bike isn't being hotwired.

[Soris Moto]

On the 2008 model, i tested to see exactly how much voltage the ECU is receiving and it is dead on 10volts. That tells me the internal resistor inside the ignition switch is okay.

I will have to check further on the 03.

But with that said, what do you guys think about this 08? Neutral switch reads accurately, and the pulse generator does technically pass specs.... what are the odds 2 ECU's are bad though?

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Soris Moto

..... what are the odds 2 ECU's are bad though?

You have already tested three different CDI's on the pre-gen.

http://www.autotap.com/techlibrary/d...ion_system.asp

I would keep testing each wire, connection and ground.

[Soris Moto]

So the best plan we can conceive is that i need to individually test all these wires? i.e to make sure no Hot wires are grounding out, and that no ground wires have continuity with the positive terminal, and that all have continuity with the ground terminal, yes?

[InvisiBill]

There's not a whole lot to the ignition on these bikes. The igniter only has 8 wires. Two from the pickup coil, the gray resistor wire from the ignition, green/black for the safety switches, green and black going to the two coils, brown/black from the fusebox for power, and black/yellow for ground.

Make sure that the green/black is actually grounded at the igniter. The fact that swapping parts doesn't help and everything seems to be right makes it seem like one of the safety features is kicking in unexpectedly. The starter relay circuit also uses the clutch/neutral switches, so if it turns over at least one of those is working, which means the igniter should too. Unless there was a problem with the wire between the junction box and the igniter.

My first guess on the PreGen is the keyswitch missing the security resistor.

I do know that if the battery voltage gets low enough, the igniter won't work properly. (Possibly due to the gray wire voltage dropping too low?) I assume you're not using a crappy old battery in your shop, but some people have worn down their battery during testing with lots of cranking, and it becomes another blocking issue after they've fixed the original problem.

[Soris Moto]

I have some follow up news to report. I figured out the 03's issue! Very happy to report i now have spark.

Turns out the ebay ignition switch isnt color coded correctly what so ever. The gray wire that feeds the CDI that is supposed to have the resistor? The key-side of the connector is YELLOW. Talk about confusing. I opened up the ignition and there was no resistor present. So i researched where to install it, and what strength.

So i took my gray wire, cut it, and soldered in a 100ohm resistor. Bam, fixed it. I put my exhaust pipes back on, primed the carbs and the bike started for the first time.

Lesson learned: if you opt for the cheap ebay ignition like i did, opt for a quality soldering iron too! haha

$30 for the ignition
$10 for a decent soldering iron
$2 for a 5 pack of resistors

$42 for the whole shabang. Marginally cheaper than an OEM one, depending on what's available on ebay at any given time for a used one.

The 08 i wont have time to fiddle with for a little while, but i suspect a similar issue. Resistor might be absent or blown somehow. Or a bad ground.

[CaliGrrl]

I'm glad you found the problem!

[1uglybastard]

awesome! glad we were able to lead you in the right direction.

[JohnnyBravo]

Sweet

[Soris Moto]

Final closure on this build.

The bike was painted a color from the 2012 Jaguar paint catalog, 'Ultimate Black'. I left the chin fairing and the front fender stock. Just give it a little character.

Runs pretty well. Still working on getting it to idle correctly. Might need the valves adjusted.

[Motofool]

[Oldskool]

I have a similar problem with my 07 ninja 250 I had spark someone messed up ignition bought an eBay one got the resistor put on it and now I have no neutral nor do I have any oil light could that be a reason for no spark? Please help

[DannoXYZ]

Yes, something is wrong with wiring.

1. Neutral light. Unplug connector from neutral switch, insert nail into terminal and ground to frame. Does it dash light go on?

2. Same test with oil-pressure switch and dash indcator

3. Do you get +12 at red wire terminal on each coil?

[Oldskool]

I figured it out it was the fuses they weren’t getting a good connection I read another forum and I rely really stupid all of them were working but I went ahead and cleaned the contacts got it goin now all I have to do is get the carbs cleaned again it sat up for a lil while