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Old March 1st, 2014, 05:56 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old3 View Post
Tell me why in the circumstances I explained why my suggestions are bad, if you can. !
Chris, Alex, and others above me have already done so but apparently you know more than all of us. A death-grip on bars when you're down (or when you're not) is never going to fix any situation. It could only make it worse at that point...loose, relaxed hands/arms are the key in any riding (or crashing) situation. If you're down, let her go. Don't be dragged along by your bike. Common sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by old3 View Post
I went back and read my advice and explanation, what I see from the OP are condescending comments and another member apparently protecting him when I sparred with some humor directed at him.
Folks don't need "protection" from you old guy. I call em like I see em. Cocky know-it-alls-better-than-everyone-else are quite frankly annoying.
Educated words, kind phrases, or logical arguments are more effective than petty name-calling and ego-trips. It's a new day. Learn from the mistakes of yesterday.
Good post as always, Chris.
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Old March 1st, 2014, 06:05 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ally99 View Post
Chris, Alex, and others above me have already done so but apparently you know more than all of us. A death-grip on bars when you're down (or when you're not) is never going to fix any situation. It could only make it worse at that point...loose, relaxed hands/arms are the key in any riding (or crashing) situation. If you're down, let her go. Don't be dragged along by your bike. Common sense.



Folks don't need "protection" from you old guy. I call em like I see em. Cocky know-it-alls-better-than-everyone-else are quite frankly annoying.
Educated words, kind phrases, or logical arguments are more effective than petty name-calling and ego-trips. It's a new day. Learn from the mistakes of yesterday.
Good post as always, Chris.
You are vey wrong, and I never advised on a death grip. Again, if he knew the answers, and can't accept ideas outside of his own prejudices, why even ask? You seem to be stuck there also. The advice I gave works in certain circumstances that I'll guess you don't understand. I did, very politely, explain those on the first page

I even gave him advice on how to get more experience crashing safely.

You resort to name calling BS, I was channeling the Jerky Boys, and had the similie there to note the kidding in my comments.

You said you crash a lot, how many years riding/racing do you have in experience? You seem to believe you know it all, I gave advice for a specific crash tactic in specific circumstances answering a question with no detail at all.

You know my actual age like you know me, not at all.
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Old March 1st, 2014, 06:09 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
Lol Hernan!!! I believe I have found a fix for my identity crisis and things will be back to normal soon enough.

You know what has scared me more than any moment on a bike? My first class as the instructor at my local college. Nothing put me in my place more than 27 fello adults of varying ages, experiences and backgrounds all staring at me with whatever expectations they had. My dad tried to teach me many things when I was a wee lad, but I never really understood some of those values until the end of that day. Heck man, I still don't understand some of them, despite having gray hairs.
Much less disturbing now !!!

Yes, I have always admired your talent to communicate in this forum, as well as the quality of your essays (next of which is already past due).
I believe that that is natural in some of the members here, like Misty, Akima, Nevadawolf and you.

I would say that such talent is extremely rare, as I see more and more people incapable of effectively communicate with others in a constructive way, even when they have rich and abundant experiences.

Having a moderate ego, like yours, helps enormously; if you take yourself and your opinions too seriously, you cannot see the true that others may be showing to you as you are too busy jumping into your trench to defend your self-inflated identity and mental security from that terrible "threat".

As of today, it is estimated that there are 7.147 billions of different points of view and "important identities" walking on this Earth.
That number humbles me a lot !!!
You can get busy "correcting" those billions or learning the good things that they have to offer, while calmly showing your "truth" for whoever find it useful.

About motorcycles and communication, I have learned much more from your posts, Chris, than what you have written on those !!!

Yes, good and loving fathers that have walked life always say really wise words to their children.
The little problem is that we hear those words at a moment in life when we know it all and we are bigger than life.

Later on, when life finally shows you who is boss and kicks you around enough to the point of crying, some of those wise words finally make sense and we have that humbling moment: Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, ...........this is what he was trying to tell me !!!
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Old March 1st, 2014, 07:27 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old3 View Post
You are vey wrong, and I never advised on a death grip.
Oh, ok.


Quote:
Originally Posted by old3 View Post
You said you crash a lot
No I didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by old3 View Post
You seem to believe you know it all
No I don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by old3 View Post
You know my actual age like you know me, not at all.
An inference made from your user name and some quotes like you've been crashing longer than I have been alive. Logical conclusion?

Relax. All of life (on and off the bike) is better when relaxed.
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Old March 1st, 2014, 07:33 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ally99 View Post
I crash less as I ride more. How about focusing on learning how to ride more than bragging about learning how to "fall off your high horse without getting hurt"? I'd be careful saying things like that.
Sounds like you have plenty of crash experience to me and you seem to be a self annointed expert on good form despite there being innumerous variables to the act.

Being older does not make one old. My user name has nothing to do with my age. You skimmed right to judgment and know me but from a few words typed on a forum.

Quite the drama queen it would seem.

I'm quite relaxed, sipping coffee by the wood stove with a Gordon Lightfoot album playing. Try not to assume as much as you do, it might serve you well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eumk7RXSbqc
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Old March 1st, 2014, 09:28 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old3 View Post
Sounds like you have plenty of crash experience to me and you seem to be a self annointed expert on good form despite there being innumerous variables to the act.

Being older does not make one old. My user name has nothing to do with my age. You skimmed right to judgment and know me but from a few words typed on a forum.

Quite the drama queen it would seem.

I'm quite relaxed, sipping coffee by the wood stove with a Gordon Lightfoot album playing. Try not to assume as much as you do, it might serve you well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eumk7RXSbqc
Hey jim- you're a ****ing idiot. have a nice day, eh?
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Old March 1st, 2014, 10:31 AM   #87
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After that bad feeling of offense, a violent or upset reaction follows.
We have too many ugly words and too much violence going on everywhere, gross or subtle.

I would never become upset or violent for no reason, and I believe that nobody should.
If we do that on little things like this forum, we will end up killing each other in real life pretty soon.
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Before we have to change the title of this perfectly good thread to "How to crash a thread?", I would like giving it a second chance.

What is the less damaging way of crashing a bike?
That is a question that I have made myself many times.

Before reading Misti's link and different posts in this thread, I have learned that I have been wrong regarding relaxing.

I always believed that adopting a fetal position would be better in a street crash.
Once, I probably suffered a highside fall when my rear wheel locked up at around 35 mph.
Soon after I found out that the output shaft sheared off and jammed the chain.

I never knew what was going on, my first thought was that I had hit a dog, as that was the squealing noise that the rear tire was making while the bike was fishtailing violently.

While I was trying to understand what was happening and how to escape that situation, I heard my helmet hitting the road violently and uncontrollably.
There must have been 200 decibels inside that helmet !!!

I could never remember the flight from the seat onto the pavement.
I never knew or cared what my limbs did during those scary seconds, but I have scars that prove that they were all over the road.

As I am not sure that I will have enough mental control to relax and let go next time, I will do all I know and can for avoiding a next time.
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 01:11 AM   #88
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 01:14 AM   #89
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i like it but it kinda sounds like something a rapist would say
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 01:36 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old3 View Post
I explained it in my post, you will try to catch yourself with your hand by reaching out. That is a great way to snap a wrist or arm. I'd rather be dragged to a stop than snapping my bones trying to fight it. Every crash is different, but given the room to slide to a stop, I'll keep my grip as long as possible.

Last "good" crash was 35MPH impact on the sumoto race bike. It blew my leather jacket zipper open but I had only minor abrasions thru the arms of the jacket. My hand guards were scarred very badly.

That's a bold assumption, you may put your hands out to brace yourself, but I usually tuck my shoulder to to land on my side/back where there is more muscle mass to absorb impact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex.s View Post
@old3 , just to confirm, you are suggesting that once you have began crashing, to stay as close as you can to your crashing... potentially flipping and rolling, 450 lbs motorcycle?
Is this the "condescending" post? It doesn't appear very condescending to me.

May you should take a step back and stop forcing your ideas and assumptions on everyone here. When I saw the question it was more of: hey if you ever crash what do you do so u don't get hurt, question. Many of us have crashed and probably will crash again, why do pros like Pedrosa, Rossi, Lorenzo and Marquez crash? They push the limits.
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 01:37 AM   #91
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i like it but it kinda sounds like something a rapist would say
Yeah, I kind of intended to ad some humor to crashing.
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 11:40 AM   #92
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pushing the bike while standing on one side, they tend to lose their balance and get pulled and crashing over on the opposite side.
i've done that at LEAST 3 times now. i really should stop pushing bikes huh
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 08:28 PM   #93
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i've done that at LEAST 3 times now. i really should stop pushing bikes huh
same...
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 10:11 PM   #94
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Quote:
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Relax and just let it happen, the more you struggle the more it will hurt...
Are you talking about crashing or this argument?

Quote:
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i like it but it kinda sounds like something a rapist would say
oh, right, or rape.
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Old March 4th, 2014, 07:16 AM   #95
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Are you talking about crashing or this argument?



oh, right, or rape.
crashing.
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Old March 4th, 2014, 12:53 PM   #96
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crashing.
ppsttt, that was a joke.
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Old March 4th, 2014, 03:20 PM   #97
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Have you tired to not pushing your bikes around and just riding them everywhere It seems a lot of people can't master the pushing the bike while standing on one side, they tend to lose their balance and get pulled and crashing over on the opposite side.
I'm a wuss about pushing the bike: I am much more comfortable stradling the bike and padding it around in close quarters. I put it on the centerstand while stradling it.
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Old March 4th, 2014, 08:50 PM   #98
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I've gotten decent at pushing my bike out of necessity lol.
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Old March 30th, 2014, 11:18 AM   #99
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I've gotten decent at pushing my bike out of necessity lol.
Me too, never seemed like a difficult skill to learn lol
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Old March 30th, 2014, 11:25 AM   #100
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Old May 1st, 2014, 05:06 PM   #101
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When i was younger, around 17 I had a nasty crash.

I came around a bend to fast on a friends bike. So I did what I thought was right, I leaned in more and slowed down. Well turned out that I was wrong. I pegged out and low sided.

Now if that was it it would be OK. But I refused to give up The bike and held on thinking I could muscle the thing back up right. It dragged me into the ditch and pitched me off into the woods where I landed in a barbed wire fence with the post inches from my face. I survived with a lot of road rash, a broken rib and I five mile stare for a few days.

So from then on when I feel that things have gotten to the point where I'm going down I push off from the bike.

Idk if it is the right thing to do but I also know that sliding down the road at 40 Is bad enough without a pissed off motorcycle bouncing right next to you.
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Old May 1st, 2014, 07:53 PM   #102
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My experience is that it's over and done with before you have much of a chance to think about it.
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Old May 1st, 2014, 11:36 PM   #103
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To answer the OP: Doing about 35 when I chickened out and landed in a 6 foot ditch. I kinda just plopped.
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Old June 28th, 2021, 11:48 AM   #104
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Quote:
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You are vey wrong, and I never advised on a death grip. Again, if he knew the answers, and can't accept ideas outside of his own prejudices, why even ask? You seem to be stuck there also. The advice I gave works in certain circumstances that I'll guess you don't understand. I did, very politely, explain those on the first page

I even gave him advice on how to get more experience crashing safely.

You resort to name calling BS, I was channeling the Jerky Boys, and had the similie there to note the kidding in my comments.

You said you crash a lot, how many years riding/racing do you have in experience? You seem to believe you know it all, I gave advice for a specific crash tactic in specific circumstances answering a question with no detail at all.

You know my actual age like you know me, not at all.
I have not read the rest of this 3rd page in this thread just to the post I have quoted above and I really dont intend to get involved with the "spirited exchange of opinions" that this discussion had become, but there is one question my brain keeps asking and I must know the answer.

Have you crashed so many times that you know for 100% sure how the bike will react? You speak of a specific situation where your technique will be some advantage while crashing. Look at the crash Mark Marquez had that broke his arm and nearly ended his career. I would wager both of my Ducatis that MM has crashed more than you and has the most experienced and knowlegable coaches on the planet advising him. He lets go of the 380lb missile and lets the safety gear do its job. With the best riders in the world disagreeing with you, your position requires more evidence that there is an actual technique there or just lucky in your experiences.

When you are riding (street or track) your brain is busy working the controls and avoiding hazzards. Once things go suddenly sideways as they say, you think that riders have time to perfectly assess that this is the "right" type of crash to apply your technique or would it just be safer 99% of the time to part company with the bike and protect the asset that does not get repaired by bolting new pieces on? Again, not looking to fight just need to know how you teach a rider the analyze the crash in 1000th of a second and determine what is better? I cant find a single expert that recommends staying with the bike/holding on during a crash and everyone I have read/talked to, says get away from the bike.

I realize that I may not be understanding your position but I have read and reread the above posts and you dont seem to have explained it any better even after CSmith's post requesting you use another analogy to describe the exact position you are defending. Please let me know exactly when I would use your technique and how to properly identify the exact type of crash I would apply this knowledge to as I want to improve but only verifiable and repeatable results merit further investigation
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Old October 31st, 2021, 05:13 PM   #105
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i've heard a lot of varying opinions on what you should do if you find yourself gliding across pavement without a bike under you. some people say cross your arms so you dont break them if you start rolling, others say splay out so you don't start rolling in the first place. some people say grab your helmet and support your head to try to reduce neck injuries. others say stay relaxed and loose so when you hit something it is absorbed instead of deflected. so its got me pretty curious.

what do you do when you are crashing?
Totally depends on the crash and whether you even have a second to make any of those decisions. I've had them all: ones where I high-sided and knew to tuck and roll, ones where I was sliding and I tried to splay out so I didn't roll, ones where I was rolling so I tucked my arms in. I actually wrote an article on this called How Well Do you Bounce? lol. I think that there are definately some crashes where you don't have any chance or choice of making a decision but that there are also many opportunities to do something that will aid in reducing injury.

I also think that there are things that can really help with how well you manage during a crash- things like your personal physical fitness and flexibility. The more fit and flexible you are the better, as well as your level of body awareness. I was in gymnastics when I was a kid, an athlete all my life, and a martial artist with a pretty decent awareness of where I am in the air. I know almost instinctively where I am in rotation in the air and so I can make decisions to tuck my head, tuck an arm, turtle, splay etc....Anyway, rambling a bit but I do think that in general, you want to be more relaxed than rigid and more fluid than not.

Hard to make those split-second decisions though!

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Old October 31st, 2021, 06:16 PM   #106
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Old December 23rd, 2021, 04:15 AM   #107
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Yah it's an old thread but it would be good to hear other comments on this one
.....
I crashed HARD on the pavement once , lightly about 3 or 4 times...
by that I mean speed related crashing Hard means you have alot of speed
crashing lightly means below 20 mph !
.... crashing lightly YAH keep trying to save it till it stops ! LOL because I actually dumped it farting around and got it back up while still moving at a good clip ! yah the handle bars hit the ground ! on a dirt bump and i got it back upright in mid air..... but I've not been that lucky again !
my hard crash was at 50mph on a twisty country paved road i leaned into the corner and the bike just fell over and slid away.... I started tumbling and my fingers were striking the pavement extremely hard and the pain definitely woke me up up to that point i was relaxed I pulled in my arms and crossed them across my chest and straightened my legs and put them together and stiffened every mussel in my body I did several more spins on my side and then did a few end over ends and then slid into the ditch....
no broken bones but I had very sore hands for a week !
....
which is better? relaxed or stiff ? I'd say relaxed... as a thousand times I've dumped it in the dirt and just tried to go with the flow and catch myself the best I could.... that time dumping it on the pavement was the exception
as I was caught by surprise and my hands were screaming STOP THIS !
the only thing I could think of was stiffen up so I did.... from that point on I was like a tinker toy tumbling through the air.... I hit hard but not hard enough to break any bones... I had big bruises everywhere but other than that I walked away from it.
a stiff body may well prevent injury.... or I suppose it could make it worse
....
it's like this, if I was falling off a cliff and going to land on rocks you can bet every mussel in my body would be at maximum tightness. ! your not going to "Relax" when you see the ground coming at you ! even if you were drunk beyond reason.... that just isn't going to happen !....
so what DO you do ????
go with the flow! if your hands hurt pull them in but other wise just slide
I stiffened up so much I became a projectile and left the ground completely
NOT GOOD... if i had just pulled in my arms I would have just tumbled to a stop possibly damaging my knees in the process because at 50 MPH you spin really fast on your side !!!!!
the best answer to this problem is DON"T CRASH !

....
Bob.......
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