Two-finger braking/blipping technique Q

[adouglas]

Spooph, that's excellent!

The different angles and editing really make it crystal clear.

What clip-ons are those? Never seen or heard of any like that.

[JeffM]

Home made clipons? Nice video spooph! The view at 2:18 is great as it shows both hands working.

[spooph]

Alex, thanks for the embed info!

THanks for the compliments folks!

I designed those clip-ons and had them machined... My machinist bailed on me for v2. These still rub a bit, and are just a tid bit too low and forward... I have the re-design, I just have to find a machinist willing to work with me....

Oh yea, and since I'm cheap, I just cut my levers to shorties. I'd love a set of Pazzos, but c'est la vie ya know!

[Talonne]

Originally Posted by spooph

I'm no Keith Code, nor is this video instructional, but rather simply illustrational. I said I would make it, so I have. I hope it helps. This was made on my commute to work, and some riding in-town.

Thanks for the video!

I don't think I can physically do what you do on downshifting without jerking the throttle around too suddenly or accidentally grabbing the brakes too hard. Looks like I'll have to avoid this technique until I spend $200 on adjustable levers...

[Key007]

Originally Posted by Talonne

Thanks for the video!

I don't think I can physically do what you do on downshifting without jerking the throttle around too suddenly or accidentally grabbing the brakes too hard. Looks like I'll have to avoid this technique until I spend $200 on adjustable levers...

A great way to practice in the meantime, in my opinion, is to just work on the mastering the downshift / clutch / throttle combination - take the brakes out of the equation at first. For example, from 5th gear, at a fairly low RPM (maybe you would've downshifted by now), try to drop all the way down into 2nd gear without allowing the bike to buck underneath you. You should hear it, but you shouldn't feel it:
Nee*Downshift*Neeee*Downshit*NeeeeEEE*Downshift*NEEEEEE

etc . Like was stated in the video / posts, this is kind of hard on the bike, and I don't do it regularly, but sometimes I'll just drop gears super quick and see how smooth of a transition I can make it between 5th-4th-3rd-2nd-1st. Be weary of overriding traction on the rear break if you drop gears at too high of an RPM though!

Edit: & Make sure you have plenty of space in front of you to stop, because your speed will decrease waaay slower then if you were using the brakes at the same time. I used to do it on highway offramps as a means of practicing before I got comfortable using the brakes too

Edit2: Neee = engine noise

[spooph]

Ha! I'm checking out the replies, and look at what the adds popped up:

http://www.rideitmoto.com/

No go on for the 250 though... Bastards...

[heylookitsfranco]

haha @OP... I laughed when i read what you posted because I did exactly what you described on the MSF bike they gave me (kawasaki eliminator), but when I got my ninja, it seemed completely natural to do the index/middle on brake.... I think maybe it's got something to do with the size or position of the lever/handlebar? the eliminator was really uncomfortable hehehe

[johnjohn]

Jeff has got it! No need to fully compress the lever in either up or down shifting.

[Apex]

I actually measured how far I pull the brake lever in on my downshifts. The outermost portion of the lever only moves 3/16" - 1/4". I just barely pull in the clutch and it creates enough slippage to do make the downshift much smoother.

Many like to overdo the motion. Now that is my bike, another bike may need 1/2 or more of the full lever movement. I know how they vary because my old GS you'd have to pull it in 1/3 of the way, and my bike on the MSF would need about 1/2. I can use just my index finger on my up/downshifts and it is totally fine on my ninjette.

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by spooph

Obviously, the big difference between this vid and Code/MCN's video is that this is actually a 250, driven where it's most likely to be driven - the open road.

For those that don't know, this is also relevant because the 250 twin motor is more unforgiving of a botched rev match as opposed to the I4 motors of the SS bikes. You botch a rev match on an I4 engine and it won't kick you as hard...unless you're redlining the damn thing. This is true for all twin bikes I think. You mess up a rev match on a twin bike and that thing will let you know. Food for thought.

With that said, my rev matching skills have gotten seriously lazy hahaha.

[edbro]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

For those that don't know, this is also relevant because the 250 twin motor is more unforgiving of a botched rev match as opposed to the I4 motors of the SS bikes. You botch a rev match on an I4 engine and it won't kick you as hard...unless you're redlining the damn thing. This is true for all twin bikes I think. You mess up a rev match on a twin bike and that thing will let you know. Food for thought.

With that said, my rev matching skills have gotten seriously lazy hahaha.

+1 on the 600 SS with I4's, I think everyone one of them comes with a slipper clutch nowadays which makes it even easier.

[Havok]

I could not hear the audio in the video so I am curious how how you blip the rpms up when rev matching.

The reason I ask is I have found a 1-2 k difference dropping gears so when rev match I pull the clutch about 1/4 way or so bring rpms up 1k shif and let clutch out. I don't rev the engine way high up in rpms. I let my rpms drop to about 5k before I down shift to the next lowest gear if stopping and ratchet down till then, I don't drop into fist until I am pretty much stopped.

For passing If I want to drop to get higher rpms and have pull I clutch, rev up 1.5k rpm and dump the clutch.

You can also just not blip at all and slowly release the clutch letting the gears catch up but you have to have good clutch control as to not let it out to fast, it will work your clutch more. A high rpm throttle blip is a bit antiquated if you ask me, back when most bikes had 4 gears you would have to rev it all the way up but with modern 6 gear boxes the gears are so much closer together 1-2 k rpm should do it just fine.

If you have to turn the throttle a lot to get that 1-2k rpm jump I would have your throttle adjusted as it should not be an exaggerated turn for that little bit of rpm.

[TrueFader]

smooth is fast, do what's comfortable. there's no right or wrong way. just keep the bike settled

[spooph]

thx Monkey!

Havok, being that we're dealing with ratios, the higher up the revs are, the bigger the difference in RPM's between gears. I'm also running 15/44 gearing, so there's a bit bigger difference between the gears than on a stock bike.... To rev-match, I just listen. Experience has taught me how high to rev to match. For instance, at 40mph to downshift from 6th to 5th, there is no reason to blip, but at that same speed, going from 3rd to 2nd is a big blip, I think 2.5K change on my bike... and going to 1st in 40mph would go past red-line....

and just letting the clutch out slowly between shifts is fine if you drive like a granny, but I prefer the shift to be done and over with ASAP (milliseconds). The more time I spend shifting, the less time I have power to the wheel.... I've just kind of gotten use to it, and it's the way I ride.

I agree with Fader, and whoever else said this, there is no absolute right way to do this. It's more about, if you want to shift as quickly as possible, here is one technique to get it done, reliably and consistently, without causing damage to the bike...

[Havok]

Originally Posted by spooph

thx Monkey!

Havok, being that we're dealing with ratios, the higher up the revs are, the bigger the difference in RPM's between gears. I'm also running 15/44 gearing, so there's a bit bigger difference between the gears than on a stock bike.... To rev-match, I just listen. Experience has taught me how high to rev to match. For instance, at 40mph to downshift from 6th to 5th, there is no reason to blip, but at that same speed, going from 3rd to 2nd is a big blip, I think 2.5K change on my bike... and going to 1st in 40mph would go past red-line....

and just letting the clutch out slowly between shifts is fine if you drive like a granny, but I prefer the shift to be done and over with ASAP (milliseconds). The more time I spend shifting, the less time I have power to the wheel.... I've just kind of gotten use to it, and it's the way I ride.

I agree with Fader, and whoever else said this, there is no absolute right way to do this. It's more about, if you want to shift as quickly as possible, here is one technique to get it done, reliably and consistently, without causing damage to the bike...

Thing is we are talking about comming to a stop. If it was trying to shave a 1/4 second off of your lap time then yes rev matching is a must. Comming to a stop at a red light not so much. I rev match on pretty much all of my down shifts and like you I use the engine sound. More racers are starting to feather the clutch now rather then blip as well. If I am looking to pass/gain speed rev matching is the only way, if I am taking a turn and wantto be higher up in the band then rev matching is the way to go, stoping at a light or stop sign or if traffic is slowing in front of me I feather the clutch all mist like a double clutch in a car.

Easy way if I want to maintain current speed or speed up I rev match. If I am slowing down or coming to a stop I feather the clutch. It's what works for me though and it's what you are comfortable with.

[Blackwidow]

for braking I keep my thumb and index finger on the throttle and use my middle finger, ring and pinky on the brake, but for the clutch, I have my thumb on the cylinder with all 4 fingers over the clutch.

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

for braking I keep my thumb and index finger on the throttle and use my middle finger, ring and pinky on the brake, but for the clutch, I have my thumb on the cylinder with all 4 fingers over the clutch.

Hehe this is how I do it too....or at least used to. This is the Rossi style grip

These days I just use my middle finger to brake. But I still use my entire hand to clutch.

[00NissanNinja]

I use the same technique as you spooph for blip-ping the throttle while braking. Thanks to the MSF I use all my fingers to brake(which has become a habit) and then I just use my thumb to twist the throttle. Works pretty good for me.

[Havok]

Originally Posted by 00NissanNinja

I use the same technique as you spooph for blip-ping the throttle while braking. Thanks to the MSF I use all my fingers to brake(which has become a habit) and then I just use my thumb to twist the throttle. Works pretty good for me.

That is how I do it as well but I have big hands so the cradle if my thumb and hand is enough to twist the theottle

[JeffM]

Another technique that will make braking and blipping easier (aside from lots of practice) is to let the fingers you are braking with slide up and down slightly on the brake lever as you blip and pull on the brake lever. It is subtle and helps keep your braking smooth.

Who'd of thought that so much action is going on while riding? It is a lot to coordinate; braking, blipping, clutching, and shifting. But boy, when you get it right is really does feel cool.