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Old June 10th, 2018, 03:24 AM   #1
adouglas
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What motivates you to ride fast?

To me there are two kinds of riders:

1) Those who ride primarily for the thrill and the rush of speed. These are the riders who are prone to losing licenses and/or binning it in the first session at a track day. They are the ones who will likely, sooner or later, make an asshat move, take themselves or someone else out, and laugh about it as if it were a badge of honor. They tend to be adrenaline junkies who ride spectacularly, but not for the long haul.

2) Those who love the elegant art and science of riding... the blissful feeling of a corner taken perfectly, of braking just right, nailing the apex and driving out. The are the riders with a lifelong devotion to learning. They understand that any monkey can twist a throttle, but riding well takes real skill. They pursue knowledge and they listen. Speed is secondary to them. They are skill junkies, not adrenaline junkies, who ride for decades without incident and enjoy every second of it.

I am firmly in the second camp. I love learning and practicing the skill of riding well.

I would argue that the great racers are also fundamentally in the second group, with the added, unquenchable desire to win and the willingness to take the risks necessary to make it happen. I am convinced that they're not out there for the thrill. They're out to win and they know that skill is the path to the top step of the podium.
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Old June 10th, 2018, 04:41 AM   #2
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Gota say, you’re generalizations are....general.
I’m firmly an adreneline junky, have been for life. Started out by jumping ramps on my Schwinn Stingray and progressed. But, never been a terminal velocity junky. It’s all about the corner speed and G forces generated. There are many sessions I don’t even go to WOT on the straights with the big bikes. Why? Because I don’t need to and it causes more problems at the rapidly approaching corner entry. But comming in after a session just “clicks” and finding your hands shaking is a great high.

Now those that park in the corner and rocket down the straight...yeah their liable to bin it quick.
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Old June 10th, 2018, 05:32 AM   #3
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I can't answer on the grounds it will incriminate me.

However; I've been riding so fast for so long I can't get to the adrenalin point anymore, it seems normal.
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Old June 10th, 2018, 06:02 AM   #4
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I’m in camp #2! 55 saves lives!
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Old June 10th, 2018, 06:57 AM   #5
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I have to say that there's a 3rd camp who likes doing stupid things really well.
Myself as an example:
  • Riding motorcycles fast
  • Jumping out of airplanes
  • Flying Airplanes
  • SCUBA
  • Boxing
  • Ice Hockey

All dangerous things that result in injury or death if done poorly.
The feeling of accomplishment, adrenaline, and raw excitement just prior to slipping into concentration required to succeed is what I like.

The feeling of camaraderie when dissecting the event with a co-idiot is great too.
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Old June 10th, 2018, 07:37 AM   #6
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Don't get me wrong. #2 doesn't mean you're slow ("55 saves lives"). It means that your FIRST priority and joy is riding well. Speed and the sense of accomplishment take care of themselves.... you can be -- or will be, sooner or later -- really smooth and really quick if riding well is your primary goal.

#1 means that your FIRST priority is pushing it to 115% in pursuit of the rush, every time, all the time. Too much is never enough. It's not just speed, necessarily. It's risk-seeking behavior that gives you what you seek. You may wind up developing the skills over time, but that's not the prime motivator. The motivator is the thrill itself.
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Old June 10th, 2018, 07:49 AM   #7
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I am 3, the always wanting to learn and have fun. Sometimes that means fast for the thrill and everytime to improve something or learn. Thrill is usually track but sometimes it's not. I am not a fast rider by definition, fast for me is smooth riding and hitting corners just over the recommend speeds without brakes....
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Old June 10th, 2018, 07:57 AM   #8
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Well now I’m in camp #3 because I love to ride motorcycles and fly airplanes.
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Old June 10th, 2018, 08:25 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by snot View Post
... always wanting to learn and have fun... everytime to improve something or learn.... fast for me is smooth riding and hitting corners just over the recommend speeds without brakes....
That's textbook group 2.

PS: I'm a pilot also (inactive due to the expense). And before I rode track I was a Class IV whitewater kayaker. I've driven race cars. And I've jumped out of airplanes too.

At no time, ever, has the PRIMARY motivator been the adrenaline rush. Sure it was all fun, but it's always been about the dance first and foremost.

---------------------------------

The question really is, if you had to choose, what's the ONE thing you're really after if you're honest with yourself? The FIRST thing that gets you motivated? What's your priority?

You don't need skill to get an adrenaline rush. You don't need skill to barely survive. Just do dumb things and scare the crap out of yourself.

If you make it through a really sketchy situation where you could have died because of a poor decision, high-five your bud, yell "AWESOME!!!!" and can't wait to do the same dumb-ass thing again, you have your answer. If you come out of that same situation shaken, thinking about what went wrong and how to to it right next time, you also have your answer.

If you're the kind of person who would reflexively run and get involved in a police chase, you have your answer. If you're the kind of person who pulls over and owns up, you also have your answer.

-----------------

I've posted this in a few places and the most common comment comes from racer types who see themselves as a combo of #1 and #2. I disagree somewhat. Adrenaline happens but it's not what gets them on the bike. WINNING is the motivator there and skill is required to get there. Do you really think Rossi is seeking the adrenaline rush per se, or is he ultimately after the top step on the podium? What's his PRIMARY motivator? Winning, obviously.
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Old June 10th, 2018, 08:34 AM   #10
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Let's all be honest. I think most people are somewhere in between group 1 and 2. And those who toot their horn about being solidly in group 2 aren't telling the whole truth.

And for more truth telling, many people who would be in group 1 move themselves into group 2 for fear of death and disability.

A lot of people lie to themselves and other people and say that they do track days to make themselves better riders. In reality they are there to speed without getting a speeding ticket. C'mon people, we all know that they just dabble in group 2 a little bit to be able to go a little faster and also stay alive.

CR's are there to help you go faster, stay upright, stay alive and have fun. Notice how I didn't use the word "learning" anywhere?

Flame suit on!
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Old June 10th, 2018, 08:41 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adouglas View Post

PS: I'm a pilot also (inactive due to the expense). And before I rode track I was a Class IV whitewater kayaker. I've driven race cars. And I've jumped out of airplanes too.
Have you ever looked into flying sailplanes “gliders”? https://www.ssa.org/Default.asp
It is a very economical way to enjoy flying. You can get a glider rating added to your certificate in as little as 3 weeks and maybe even sooner depending on your skills.
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Old June 10th, 2018, 09:02 AM   #12
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I guess the OP let see he doesn't like group #1 LOL. His statement 'I'm in group #2' probably was redundant.

I like motorcycling in all its forms. I admire stunters as well as racers of any level and type.
Even the guys who pull out wheelies and other moves on public roads. I don't approve what they do but I admire their skills and balls.

Yes, they fall. Sometimes they laugh, sometimes they get hurt, die or kill someone else, and that sucks. That's riding.

My greatest fear is to be on a bed not being able to move. But if I don't ride, I feel I'm already there.
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Old June 10th, 2018, 09:51 AM   #13
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You forgot #4; Only riding fast when drunk out of your mind (I'm not sure if high on drugs works just as well). Twice a year I read about these super fast guys riding like MotoGP pilots all the way to the end (of their life). I think they might be the fastest group!
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Old June 10th, 2018, 10:34 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Zaph42 View Post
And those who toot their horn about being solidly in group 2 aren't telling the whole truth.

Link to original page on YouTube.

You're talking to a guy who wears full leathers on the street (nobody I know does this) and who, in 31 years, has laid a bike down exactly once... at about 10 mph, a week after getting my license. Someone who adamantly rejects the assertion that crashing is inevitable but accepts that it can happen at any time.

No, I don't ride at or below the speed limit most of the time, and unfortunately my driving record proves that. But neither do I take stupid risks or put others in danger.

No lie: I don't like scaring the crap out of myself. It's just not appealing to me. I'd undoubtedly make a lousy racer. But i do really enjoy getting better at the sport. A lot.

"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots," goes the time-honored saying. I'm an old pilot.

Am I an overcautious wimp who isn't living life to the fullest? Maybe. I'll own that and it doesn't bug me a bit. I'm not as fast as most but am faster than quite a few... just doing my own thing and loving every minute of it.

No dislike of group 1 per se. We all make our own choices and follow our hearts. I know quite a few people who are clearly adrenaline junkies. They're having a ball doing what they do and we get along just fine. But if we're out riding together, I'll just meet 'em at the destination. My path to satisfaction is simply different from theirs.

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Old June 10th, 2018, 10:58 AM   #15
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I’m definitely not in camp #4.
I would consider myself an old pilot and not a bold pilot. I do a pre-flight even when someone else swears they did one before I got to the aircraft.
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Old June 10th, 2018, 10:59 AM   #16
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I'm still very new to riding my own bike, but my experiences as a passenger make me believe I am firmly in the middle.

That rush I felt every time my friend would go all out on the interstate (barely any traffic around when he'd do this, when we would approach traffic he'd slow down), or on the twisty roads he told me he had never taken a passenger on....that's what got me wanting a bike of my own. I'll always remember the look on his face when I told him that the feeling of being on the bike was the most exhilarating yet calming thing I've ever felt. Like a centering type feeling. I'm not sure if he understood what I was talking about or just thought I was crazy lol, but that's the feeling I get, and that's what I'm chasing.

I also enjoy the learning process and hope to constantly learn new things on my bike. I want skill AND adrenaline.
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Old June 10th, 2018, 11:27 AM   #17
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I think i was just called an asshat but Im OK with that.
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Old June 10th, 2018, 02:07 PM   #18
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Speed
It’s my love, my drug of choice, my life.
I just love to go as fast as I can. Does not matter what I’m racing. Yesterday I placed second in a kayak race. Got a medal and everything . Speed was about 6 mph. Now I want to go faster
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Old June 10th, 2018, 02:31 PM   #19
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Old June 10th, 2018, 03:02 PM   #20
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I’m somewhere between #1 & #2. I got good at skydiving, it was no longer a challenge and got boring. Same with racing Porsche turbos. Same with shooting, wasn’t any ranges nearby with enough distance between to challenge me.

I’m with Conan on what is best in life.
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Old June 10th, 2018, 10:08 PM   #21
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The feel of going around a corner well... whether that's 20mph or 50. I like going fast, but I don't do much of it. Even on the freeway, that's only 75 or so.
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Old June 10th, 2018, 10:26 PM   #22
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I'm a arse hat, when it's safe to do so.

I love the feeling of speed and balls out acceleration and risk, or even percieved risk.

If I'm feeling comfortable in an activity then I'm not pushing, it's still fun, but only to a point, if I'm pumping adrenaline my fun level is way up.

This is not to say I don't do those little risk assessments in my head constantly and use some form of commonsense.

Do I break the speed limit, all the time, do I push myself to a pucker point, yeap.

If you are not having fun, your a commuter IMO, if I am having fun, someone holier than thou will call me a arse hat.

Stones and glass houses is a term that comes to mind in alot of these situations.

Some people are scared of risk, being risk adverse is a sad way to live your life, and actually counter productive at times.

In the end there will always be idiots who push past the abilty of themselves or their equipment on the street, it happens all the time at the track though, you don't win buy not pushing and taking risks, I like to be a arse hat who sees 9/10ths when ever I can, that is my 9/10ths though, I know my limit, I'm not that good, I could be better, but I've got more things going on in my life.

If that ends me, so be it, I won't be happy about it, but that's life, everyone eventually is going to die, though I've got more of a chance of some idiot killing me, or dying from work.
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Old June 11th, 2018, 07:02 AM   #23
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For me, it's not really the speed - it's the precision. Going fast in a straight line isn't very rewarding to me. I'd much rather run through a series of difficult corners at 40 than run 140 on a straight.

Feeling that you are controlling something precisely that is difficult to control, and has significant consequences for losing control, has a way of clearing your head and intensifying your focus. I got the same satisfaction as a competitive shooter.

My favorite road is a series of (probably 12) tight banked corners strung together in a total distance of no more that 1/2 - 3/4 mile and the speeds are probably in the range of 35 to 40 (never had time to look). Coming out feeling you really nailed it is great. There maybe some adrenaline rush, but mostly it's a feeling of accomplishing your objective precisely that's the reward.
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Old June 11th, 2018, 10:37 AM   #24
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I realized this weekend that I don't even care about my lap-times. Been doing track-days for over 10-yrs and don't even have lap-timer. Sometimes upon request from other riders, I'll time some laps by replaying my videos, but I don't track my times. I just know I can be faster and I figure out areas where I can improve and be better.
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Old June 11th, 2018, 01:40 PM   #25
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I did my first track day a few years ago with the primary goal being to see what my bike can do that I shouldn't do on the track (lean angle, acceleration out of a corner, braking late, etc). I strive to get better, but probably don't do enough days to get better. To me speed in a straight line isn't my thing - but I've always liked a fast dirt bike, or fast car, but I rarely speed in a car due to the other people on the road.

Anyway, put me a 1.75 on the 1 & 2 options.
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Old June 11th, 2018, 02:00 PM   #26
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To answer the question posed by the original topic of this thread.
What motivates you to ride fast ?
FAME AND GLORY ��
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Old June 11th, 2018, 04:19 PM   #27
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I would say I am in group 2 (old enough to know better) I do enjoy the building of skill to be smooth. smooth is fast. although I slip into the edge of group 1(still too young to care) from time to time and love the rush of adrenaline I get. Hopefully the 2 part of me keeps me from making an asshat of myself. If I had had a motorcycle 20 years ago I probably wouldn't be here. Had some real close calls in cars back then.
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Old June 12th, 2018, 05:30 AM   #28
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I fly acrobatic airplanes and have my glider rating to boot. Motorcycles are tame.

After getting my Pilots licence I went for a ride in a glider. We did a couple of loops and a roll. That did it. I started aerobatic training in a Citabria Decathlon. First time I did not puke, but had a hard time walking after we landed. Nothing like a 4G loop to get your blood pumping.
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Old June 12th, 2018, 05:50 AM   #29
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Speed is a relative thing. Being smart and smooth and controlled is when you go fast. If you are going faster than you should bad thing can happen very quickly.
It is all about when and what you calling fast. 75 mph in a boat is terrifying to me. On a bicycle it is uncomfortable. On a motorcycle I am paying attention . In a car I am looking out the window thinking about lunch. In an airplane I am waiting to take off or land.
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Old June 12th, 2018, 07:31 AM   #30
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Beating the guy next to me.
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Old June 12th, 2018, 10:14 AM   #31
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Old June 12th, 2018, 12:16 PM   #32
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Only question was: What motivates you to ride fast? The OP was simply his response to that question. To me it depends on my attitude at the time. There are days where I am just enjoying the ride and not looking to ride fast. Other times I am looking for the excitement of the corners and in those contexts I am usually speeding, only thing that slows me down then is the traffic or the anticipation of a cop. I wouldn't run but I don't like tickets.
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Old June 12th, 2018, 04:11 PM   #33
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i think bolth are needed, if its just the art and precision, do something else, where the consequences aren't so painful if you make a mistake. the beauty of this sport is we have skin in the game, so all of us at some level ride for the thrill. if not there are safer ways to do scenario #1.
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Old June 12th, 2018, 04:23 PM   #34
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I ride fast because of the girls.



I cant handle it when I get beat by 14 yr old young women. One handed my ass to me at the first round this yr.
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Old June 12th, 2018, 04:27 PM   #35
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Needing to pee.
That should be #1, for some of us older guys anyway
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Old June 12th, 2018, 07:35 PM   #36
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Speed is so relative. 25 mph on a chunky MTB trail while descending 2000' of that mountain you just spent 2 hours slaving up feels WAY faster than a curvy backroad with sweet sweet 35-50 mph corners. I love those magical 3rd gear curvy rods, but I hella love me some MTB descents.

For me... it starts as a 2, and always turns into a 1. When I start out at number 1, I get sloppy and lose all hope of number 2, which usually ends up with me getting hurt. Ride it clean, and the speed happens all on its own. You gotta sneak up on fast.




Honestly though... in a car, it's definitely number 2. I've started getting a wee bit quick in a car, and I'm able to corner hard enough to make myself get a little dizzy. And I've never been prone to car sickness before. So I'm resorting back to 2. Clean, smooth, precise, consistent. Enough to feel like I'm using the car for what it was designed for, but slow enough to create art while I do it. Also a little safer for me, if I'm being honest. I do enjoy a good parking lot hoon session after a good rain though
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Old June 12th, 2018, 07:55 PM   #37
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When I first started riding about 6 years ago, I was definitely #1. I loved taking every corner at the max on the street, with no care for the consequences. I scared many a cager with my bike leaned over, brushing the pavement.

After returning from my riding hiatus, however, I am definitely #2 now. I am putting much greater care into form and technique than I did before, and my riding skills are much more concise as a result.

Thanks for this thread @adouglas!
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Old June 13th, 2018, 09:12 AM   #38
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When I was younger, I was into every type of speed bikes had to offer. I would try to drag my knee thru turns and run way too fast down the highway. I never had a "scare" but did crash a couple of times.

I finally realized that I would need to get onto a track to really get fast. There is very little chance for survival learning the skills to corner fast while on the street. Now I just focus on skill and control
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Old June 13th, 2018, 09:09 PM   #39
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Needing to pee.
or, explosive diarrhea...
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Old June 14th, 2018, 07:36 AM   #40
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To me there are two kinds of riders:

1) Those who ride primarily for the thrill and the rush of speed. These are the riders who are prone to losing licenses and/or binning it in the first session at a track day. They are the ones who will likely, sooner or later, make an asshat move, take themselves or someone else out, and laugh about it as if it were a badge of honor. They tend to be adrenaline junkies who ride spectacularly, but not for the long haul.

2) Those who love the elegant art and science of riding... the blissful feeling of a corner taken perfectly, of braking just right, nailing the apex and driving out. The are the riders with a lifelong devotion to learning. They understand that any monkey can twist a throttle, but riding well takes real skill. They pursue knowledge and they listen. Speed is secondary to them. They are skill junkies, not adrenaline junkies, who ride for decades without incident and enjoy every second of it.

I am firmly in the second camp. I love learning and practicing the skill of riding well.

I would argue that the great racers are also fundamentally in the second group, with the added, unquenchable desire to win and the willingness to take the risks necessary to make it happen. I am convinced that they're not out there for the thrill. They're out to win and they know that skill is the path to the top step of the podium.
Response to #1 - on public roads it's usually very low IQ.

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