Can you steer with no hands?

Jerry · August 7th, 2009, 10:00 PM

An experiment: Turning by leaning.

So today I really tried to see if I could keep the bike on the road by only leaning:

Today, I put on the Uni-Vista-Cruise and did manage to keep the Ninja on the road without touching the bars on the following two sections:

This one at an average of 35 mph. Leaning only-- about 1 mile.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie...76818&t=h&z=14

This one at an average of 60 mph. Leaning only -- about 4 miles.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie...76818&t=h&z=14

I'm not trying to encourage anyone to ride with no hands. But I managed to keep the bike on the road without touching the bars through both of these sections.

Okay, a couple of times I had to adjust the Vista Cruise, and around a couple of turns, I had to touch the bars for a couple of seconds, but for 99% of the time, leaning only kept me on the road.

I was worried about handlebar shake, but it never happened. I kept one hand covering one bar (alternating left and right..)for 80% of the time, but for about 20% of the time I had both hands on the tank.

Conclusion:
Countersteering leans the bike, but leaning the bike makes it turn. A 160 pound rider can throw enough weight around to keep the bike on moderately curvey roads, even at 60 mph plus by leaning alone.

sofo · August 7th, 2009, 10:23 PM

Is it the lean, or the pressure on the pegs that's doing the no-handed steering?

Finder · August 8th, 2009, 12:43 AM

http://www.superbikeschool.com/machi...bs-machine.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nRUeEkS644

minuslars · August 8th, 2009, 06:51 AM

lol I've tried this, but I only went like a hundred feet before I started getting headshake.

Jerry · August 8th, 2009, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sofo

Is it the lean, or the pressure on the pegs that's doing the no-handed steering?

Mostly, it felt like I was just throwing my upper body around, and pushing my hands against the tank.

And yeah, I've seen the no BS bike. All I'm saying is I rode through some pretty good sweepers at 60 mph, no hands, no BS.

sofo · August 8th, 2009, 07:49 AM

Hmm... seems like you need to set Keith Code straight.

Jerry · August 8th, 2009, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sofo

Hmm... seems like you need to set Keith Code straight.

Maybe Keith needs a Ninjette?

revstriker · August 8th, 2009, 09:15 AM

Your post kind of reminded me of this guy:

Link to original page on YouTube.

backinthesaddleagain · August 8th, 2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sofo

Is it the lean, or the pressure on the pegs that's doing the no-handed steering?

+1 on the peg pressure, and maybe a bit of knee pressing the bike also.

revstriker · August 8th, 2009, 09:29 AM

Just a guess, but I really think it depends on how heavy the bike is. I would imagine on a lighter bike, a shift in body weight can cause the bike to lean, and the leaning bike can cause counter steering. I would also guess that the further back you put your weight (off of the front wheel), the easier it would be for the leaning bike to cause the front wheel to counter steer. This could be why the "BS Bike" doesn't steer well because it puts a lot of weight on the front wheel.

Just a guess on my part. But I know you can ride no hands with no problem steering on a bike all day long. But I bet if you did the BS Bike thing on a bicycle, it would be harder to turn.

Jerry · August 8th, 2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revstriker

...and the leaning bike can cause counter steering.

Actually, I would say countersteering causes the bike to lean, and leaning causes the bike to turn.

And no, I wasn't texting.

Rayme · August 8th, 2009, 11:18 AM

the steering has to move for the bike to turn, when you lean the bike a bit on the side the steering will slowly turn by itself.. this could easily be shown by riding a bike with a fixed steering (I,d suggest doing that on a desert airport LOL).

Alex · August 8th, 2009, 11:42 AM

You can absolutely turn just by leaning, you just can't turn very hard or very fast that way. Keith's point isn't that it's physically impossible, his point is that it's mostly useless in a racetrack environment where you need to get the bike from straight up and down to all the way leaned over in < 1 sec. In that context, the only way to do it is with bar pressure.

addy126 · August 9th, 2009, 10:00 AM

I'm a huge user and proponent of the countersteering method for quick and agile response. The body weight steering is when I'm just toolin around, no traffic and I want to slowly and gradually swish swash down a straight road. I never depend on body weight turning in serious riding unless I'm combining it directly with countersteering.

billmi · August 9th, 2009, 11:05 AM

It's been a while since I've ridden up 198, but aren't a lot of those turns banked?

I think that would make it easier to negotiate the turns by leaning alone, unlike the Keith Code video where it's on a flat track.

minuslars · August 10th, 2009, 05:27 PM

If I could master this, I'd totally talk or text on my cell phone, read the newspaper, figure out crossword puzzles, eat my breakfast, change my clothes, cram for a test, practice the trombone, wipe off my windscreen, and cut cagers off to boot!

Cedilla · August 10th, 2009, 05:42 PM

I notice the handlebars doing a little bit of countersteering on their own when I lean with no hands.

MtnCruiser · August 12th, 2009, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cedilla

I notice the handlebars doing a little bit of countersteering on their own when I lean with no hands.

That is exactly right, if you locked the wheel straight the bike would not turn.If you had enough nerve to shift your weight harder you would see the handlebars move even farther but I wouldn't recommend it.

Purspeed · August 12th, 2009, 10:10 PM

I have the ability to steer by sheer mental power alone.

It's an ancient technique that takes many of your lifetimes to achieve.

Verus Cidere · August 14th, 2009, 01:47 AM

I would love to learn to do this, but I've got the problem of a large amount of bar shaking! As far as I know (though I haven't checked Kkim's thread about it in a while) we're still looking for a solution to that......

komohana · August 14th, 2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verus Cidere

I would love to learn to do this, but I've got the problem of a large amount of bar shaking! As far as I know (though I haven't checked Kkim's thread about it in a while) we're still looking for a solution to that......

any mods that would affect steering? like lowering the front, tire size changes...etc?

Verus Cidere · August 14th, 2009, 01:01 PM

Nothing yet, but I'm planning to get some clipons eventually.

Jerry · August 14th, 2009, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verus Cidere

I I've got the problem of a large amount of bar shaking! As far as I know (though I haven't checked Kkim's thread about it in a while) we're still looking for a solution to that......

I doubt there is one solution to bar shaking, but there seem to be speeds where it isn't an issue, and speeds where it is.

Seems every bike I've had shakes most around 40-45 mph. The ninjette does too, but at 60 mph its pretty stable...YmphMV.

It's less bad with new tires.

Less weight on the front, and accelerating slightly to keep the front light helps minimize it

Also slight acceleration keeps the resonance from finding a sweet spot.

You can get the same idea by just using a real light grip, too.

Apex · August 14th, 2009, 09:15 PM

I just picked up a Cannondale M400 mountain bike. You learn balance really fast on that thing. I've tuned my balance in where I can ride almost endlessly without the use of my hands. It really translates to the bike.

August 7th, 2009, 10:00 PM	#1
Jerry ninjette.org member Name: Jerry Location: California Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250 Posts: 178	Can you steer with no hands? An experiment: Turning by leaning. So today I really tried to see if I could keep the bike on the road by only leaning: Today, I put on the Uni-Vista-Cruise and did manage to keep the Ninja on the road without touching the bars on the following two sections: This one at an average of 35 mph. Leaning only-- about 1 mile. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie...76818&t=h&z=14 This one at an average of 60 mph. Leaning only -- about 4 miles. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie...76818&t=h&z=14 I'm not trying to encourage anyone to ride with no hands. But I managed to keep the bike on the road without touching the bars through both of these sections. Okay, a couple of times I had to adjust the Vista Cruise, and around a couple of turns, I had to touch the bars for a couple of seconds, but for 99% of the time, leaning only kept me on the road. I was worried about handlebar shake, but it never happened. I kept one hand covering one bar (alternating left and right..)for 80% of the time, but for about 20% of the time I had both hands on the tank. Conclusion: Countersteering leans the bike, but leaning the bike makes it turn. A 160 pound rider can throw enough weight around to keep the bike on moderately curvey roads, even at 60 mph plus by leaning alone.

August 8th, 2009, 11:18 AM	#12
Rayme ninjette.org guru Name: Remy Location: Moncton Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '04 sv650s Posts: 438	the steering has to move for the bike to turn, when you lean the bike a bit on the side the steering will slowly turn by itself.. this could easily be shown by riding a bike with a fixed steering (I,d suggest doing that on a desert airport LOL). __________________________________________________ There's 2 types of people in this world, those who complain and those who act.

August 8th, 2009, 11:42 AM	#13
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	You can absolutely turn just by leaning, you just can't turn very hard or very fast that way. Keith's point isn't that it's physically impossible, his point is that it's mostly useless in a racetrack environment where you need to get the bike from straight up and down to all the way leaned over in < 1 sec. In that context, the only way to do it is with bar pressure. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

August 12th, 2009, 10:10 PM	#19
Purspeed ninjette.org guru Name: Purspeed Location: Los Angeles, CA Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: 469	I have the ability to steer by sheer mental power alone. It's an ancient technique that takes many of your lifetimes to achieve. __________________________________________________ "This is my Ninja. There are many like it, but this one is mine..." ~ Purspeed (ca. Nov, 2008)

August 14th, 2009, 01:47 AM	#20
Verus Cidere ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Michael Location: Southern NM Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '91 Honda CBR600 F2 Posts: A lot.	I would love to learn to do this, but I've got the problem of a large amount of bar shaking! As far as I know (though I haven't checked Kkim's thread about it in a while) we're still looking for a solution to that...... __________________________________________________ 1991 Honda CBR600 F2, White/Gray, D&D slip-on exhaust, tail integrator, gel grips, Custom undertail.

August 7th, 2009, 10:23 PM	#2
sofo ninjette.org guru Name: Andrew Location: Vancouver, BC Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 410	Is it the lean, or the pressure on the pegs that's doing the no-handed steering?

August 8th, 2009, 12:43 AM	#3
Finder ninjette.org member Name: Mr. Location: SF Bay Area, California Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): F650GS Dakar, FJR1300, Ninja 250R Posts: 47	http://www.superbikeschool.com/machi...bs-machine.php http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nRUeEkS644

August 8th, 2009, 06:51 AM	#4
minuslars ninjette.org member Name: Arthur Location: NoVA Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): '03 EX250 Posts: 134	lol I've tried this, but I only went like a hundred feet before I started getting headshake.

August 8th, 2009, 07:49 AM	#6
sofo ninjette.org guru Name: Andrew Location: Vancouver, BC Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 410	Hmm... seems like you need to set Keith Code straight.

August 8th, 2009, 09:15 AM	#8
revstriker ninjette.org sage Name: Scott Location: DFW TX Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja zx6r Posts: 609	Your post kind of reminded me of this guy: Link to original page on YouTube.

August 8th, 2009, 09:29 AM	#10
revstriker ninjette.org sage Name: Scott Location: DFW TX Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja zx6r Posts: 609	Just a guess, but I really think it depends on how heavy the bike is. I would imagine on a lighter bike, a shift in body weight can cause the bike to lean, and the leaning bike can cause counter steering. I would also guess that the further back you put your weight (off of the front wheel), the easier it would be for the leaning bike to cause the front wheel to counter steer. This could be why the "BS Bike" doesn't steer well because it puts a lot of weight on the front wheel. Just a guess on my part. But I know you can ride no hands with no problem steering on a bike all day long. But I bet if you did the BS Bike thing on a bicycle, it would be harder to turn.

August 9th, 2009, 10:00 AM	#14
addy126 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: addy126 Location: Tx Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Kawasaki N-250 + '09 Vulcan 900 Classic Lt Posts: A lot.	I'm a huge user and proponent of the countersteering method for quick and agile response. The body weight steering is when I'm just toolin around, no traffic and I want to slowly and gradually swish swash down a straight road. I never depend on body weight turning in serious riding unless I'm combining it directly with countersteering.

August 9th, 2009, 11:05 AM	#15
billmi ninjette.org member Name: Bill Location: Palm Bay, FL Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 82 XV750, 99 DR200SE, 04 DR200SE, 08 DR200SE, 95 EX250 Posts: 71	It's been a while since I've ridden up 198, but aren't a lot of those turns banked? I think that would make it easier to negotiate the turns by leaning alone, unlike the Keith Code video where it's on a flat track.

August 10th, 2009, 05:27 PM	#16
minuslars ninjette.org member Name: Arthur Location: NoVA Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): '03 EX250 Posts: 134	If I could master this, I'd totally talk or text on my cell phone, read the newspaper, figure out crossword puzzles, eat my breakfast, change my clothes, cram for a test, practice the trombone, wipe off my windscreen, and cut cagers off to boot!

August 10th, 2009, 05:42 PM	#17
Cedilla ninjette.org sage Name: Chris Location: Huntsville, AL Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250 (sold) Posts: 755	I notice the handlebars doing a little bit of countersteering on their own when I lean with no hands.

August 14th, 2009, 01:01 PM	#22
Verus Cidere ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Michael Location: Southern NM Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '91 Honda CBR600 F2 Posts: A lot.	Nothing yet, but I'm planning to get some clipons eventually. __________________________________________________ 1991 Honda CBR600 F2, White/Gray, D&D slip-on exhaust, tail integrator, gel grips, Custom undertail.

August 14th, 2009, 09:15 PM	#24
Apex Livin' the Minimoto Life Name: Mark Location: Riding around in TX Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2022 Honda Navi, 2018 Z-125 Pro Posts: A lot.	I just picked up a Cannondale M400 mountain bike. You learn balance really fast on that thing. I've tuned my balance in where I can ride almost endlessly without the use of my hands. It really translates to the bike. __________________________________________________ --- My IG Page --- My FB page! --- 2022 Honda Navi && 2018 Z-125 Pro

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