July 22nd, 2012, 09:09 AM | #1 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Sergio
Location: Ottawa
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2003 Kawasaki 250ZZR (Ninja) Posts: 7
|
Engine Knocking Noise (w/Video)
Can anyone help diagnose this engine knocking noise?
Link to original page on YouTube. |
|
July 22nd, 2012, 09:25 AM | #3 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Sergio
Location: Ottawa
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2003 Kawasaki 250ZZR (Ninja) Posts: 7
|
At first I thought my timing may have slipped. but I checked this morning, and timing is still right on the money.
|
|
July 22nd, 2012, 10:29 AM | #4 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16
|
Quote:
However, the frequency is high compared to the frequency of the exhaust; it seems to me. If that is true, the source could be the valve trains. Did you verify the clearances? Welcome to the site !!!!
__________________________________________________
Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
|
|
July 22nd, 2012, 11:09 AM | #5 |
I told you bro
Name: Noor
Location: Austin, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1996 Ninja 250r Posts: 680
|
One of my valves was too loose after a recent valve adjustment and it sounded almost exactly like this.
|
|
July 22nd, 2012, 12:11 PM | #6 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Sergio
Location: Ottawa
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2003 Kawasaki 250ZZR (Ninja) Posts: 7
|
I will verify my clearances
I will verify them tomorrow after work. I hope that is the issue but... would that even cause it to stall out as it did? Maybe it loosened during the trip... although I think that would be unlikely. I'm pretty sure I checked my torque values.
Glad to be here! |
|
July 22nd, 2012, 12:23 PM | #7 |
I told you bro
Name: Noor
Location: Austin, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1996 Ninja 250r Posts: 680
|
Could be two unrelated things happening at once.
|
|
July 25th, 2012, 02:25 PM | #8 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
I listened to the video but I didn't hear anything other than clutch basket ticking. It can come and go so you should test for that since its the easiest. The performance problem sounds more like a carb issue and may be unrelated. Hope its not serious.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
|
July 28th, 2012, 11:04 AM | #9 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Sergio
Location: Ottawa
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2003 Kawasaki 250ZZR (Ninja) Posts: 7
|
Melted Camshaft
I finally had some time:
The loud knocking sound was indeed the valve clearance. However, I'm in a bit more of a jam. The reason they were loose was because the intake camshaft melted, and unfortunately, so did the seats they sit in... I did not know there was a difference between camshafts, but when I aligned timing to the 2T mark, I noticed (now) that the cam lobes did not match the image in the valve adjustment procedure. At 2t, instead of pointing up, they were pointing down. When I rebuilt the engine, I switched the exhaust and intake camshafts. Oddly enough, it still ran smooth at first... Some pics I took: http://imgur.com/a/jjICu What I don't get is what could have caused this? Problems with oil passages? The fact that I switched the camshafts? How do I fix this? Looks like I'll have to get a new top end? Thanks for your help guys. |
|
July 28th, 2012, 11:43 AM | #10 |
KThanksBye
Name: Kevin
Location: Orange County
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 zx636r Posts: A lot.
|
If you WOT for 98.7798 seconds it will fix it. Careful though, 98.7799 seconds will kill it
__________________________________________________
----> My Youtube! <---- Unregistered, watch my youtube page! |
|
July 28th, 2012, 12:44 PM | #11 |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16
|
That is painful to watch, Sergio.
Proper lubrication of any bearing requires the proper gap or clearance between the parts. Too much or not enough and the lubrication film will break apart and the metal parts will destroy each other. Unfortunately, that is what happened to your engine. The reasons could be improper torque of the cam covers or wrong relocation of parts that had been machined as a match (Did you use a repair manual for proper procedure?). Yes, you need to replace the head and corresponding gaskets. A machine shop could help you determining if the camshaft needs replacement as well. Best!
__________________________________________________
Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
|
July 28th, 2012, 01:41 PM | #12 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
Sadly I must concur with the others and say you need a new head. The damage is not easily repairable. But first, you need to figure out exactly why they did that. Could be clearance and could be lack of oil could be a grain of sand. Until you know for sure, you might be destroying the new heads too.
The exhaust and intake cams are identical except that the gears are bolted on differently. I'm not sure how they stack up with the clearances. They are the same part number though.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
|
July 28th, 2012, 03:14 PM | #13 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Sergio
Location: Ottawa
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2003 Kawasaki 250ZZR (Ninja) Posts: 7
|
New Engine Head
Thanks for your responses guys.
I did use the manual for the entire rebuild. Mind you, it's a lot to read and re-read, and every once and a while I missed something or misread it. I DID however put the camshaft covers in their right spots. This I know for sure. Switching the Intake and Exhaust shafts was a goof on my part. I found a nice clean head including camshafts for $150CDN. Might be a strange questions, but once I've got the old head off, is there any way to test the oil passages from the bottom block to the top? I suspect not. Either way, I will try putting the new head on, if it happens again I might drive it into the river in a blaze of glory. |
|
July 28th, 2012, 09:53 PM | #14 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
The oil gets to the head through the rubber tube on the front of the engine. Its possible that is plugged up somewhere. Maybe disconnect the tube and flush it with carb cleaner. It might also be possible to use a pump type oil can to force oil through that tube to make sure its coming out where it should.
The cam caps look similar, but they only go in one way, so you couldn't have messed that up. Also, it shouldn't make any difference which cam goes where in terms of bearing damage. The cams are identical except for where the gear gets bolted on. I strongly suspect lack of oil as the culprit.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
|
July 30th, 2012, 10:26 AM | #15 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Sergio
Location: Ottawa
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2003 Kawasaki 250ZZR (Ninja) Posts: 7
|
Debris.
I think it was debris. I hate to say it, but I remembered at one point while assembling, I noticed some flakes of metal around the area. I cleaned it off, and didn't think much of it, but now it seems like the most likely explanation. I bet you, the first time I set it (because I did it twice) something was off, scratched the surface, placed it a second time but did not clean the surface properly. LESSON LEARNED! I hope
New parts are on the way. |
|
July 30th, 2012, 11:33 AM | #16 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
|
this raises an excellent question that ive been trying to find the answer to... how to test the oil passages. maybe with the head off and the bottom filled with oil, manually turning the crank to turn the oil pump and see if oil comes out all of the feed tubes? seems like a very inaccurate test... maybe a flexible soft stick or something that can be ran through all the oil passages? this is something ive been thinking about for a few months now... still no idea on a good method
__________________________________________________
|
|
July 30th, 2012, 01:48 PM | #17 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
Quote:
As far as debris, it would have to be in the oil passages somewhere. Just being in the crankcase isn't going to mess anything up (unless there is a ton of it) because it gets stuck in the filter.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
2009 ninja 250r engine ticking & knocking noise | ubxssangz | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 47 | January 26th, 2017 12:15 PM |
Engine Noise, Cam Chain Tensioner Problem? Pics And Video | az3200 | 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 38 | August 27th, 2013 04:31 AM |
Engine knocking noise | vinnyirl | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 11 | March 8th, 2013 12:33 PM |
Weird knocking noise... | blink | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 6 | July 3rd, 2012 12:24 PM |
knocking or rattling noise | tinng321 | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 12 | May 31st, 2009 09:51 AM |
|
|