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Old July 26th, 2016, 11:04 AM   #1
garyg199
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can anyone tell me why this is happening with my idle?

I'm trying to tune my carbs after I've had a rich mixture. I've been turning the idle mixture screws and I'm almost at 3 turns out and the idle hangs and also rises still. Should I keep turning them out? what is happening? I just put the stock 38 pilots in because the 40s were too big. I have 100# mains in and needles on third position. Why is this happening?
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Old July 26th, 2016, 12:23 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyg199 View Post
I'm trying to tune my carbs after I've had a rich mixture. I've been turning the idle mixture screws and I'm almost at 3 turns out and the idle hangs and also rises still. Should I keep turning them out? what is happening? I just put the stock 38 pilots in because the 40s were too big. I have 100# mains in and needles on third position. Why is this happening?
Typically that's a vacuum leak or lean mixture. I'd check for a leak.

Idle mixture passages could also be partially blocked.

3 turns out is about max. If that doesn't do it there are other issues.

Carbs synced? Gas fresh? Valves adjusted? Plugs both look the same color (should be tan)?
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Old July 26th, 2016, 12:29 PM   #3
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Valves adjusted?
After the huge transformation in my 250's idle following a valve adjustment, I'm going to suspect valves if I ever get any more idle problems.
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Old July 26th, 2016, 02:01 PM   #4
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Check your carb boots and other areas/hoses around the carbs for a vac leak.

I re installed my carbs once (for the 4th time that day) and was to tired/annoyed/mad at myself to check if I properly seated the carbs into the engine and air box side boots. Once I started it my idle was awful even after adjusting the mixture screws and the carbs themselves with the knob on the left side of the bike (if you are sitting on it) rechecked the boots and properly seated them which fixed the hanging tach needle.
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Old July 26th, 2016, 05:37 PM   #5
garyg199
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I checked all that and retightened the carbs. got the idle to stop rising but it's still hanging around 300-3400rpm. This is since I put the smaller pilot jets in so should info back to the 40s? I was getting a terrible sputter while cruising at about half throttle which is why I took them out. Now the sputter is gone but it's doing this. And it's not pulling hard at all. I just went for a ride and it's hesitating at higher rpms. Like 9k and above. I don't get it, when I first installed the jets the bike flew around like butter on ice. Now it's running like dropped dooks. so frustrating!
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Old July 26th, 2016, 05:53 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyg199 View Post
I checked all that and retightened the carbs. got the idle to stop rising but it's still hanging around 300-3400rpm. This is since I put the smaller pilot jets in so should info back to the 40s? I was getting a terrible sputter while cruising at about half throttle which is why I took them out. Now the sputter is gone but it's doing this. And it's not pulling hard at all. I just went for a ride and it's hesitating at higher rpms. Like 9k and above. I don't get it, when I first installed the jets the bike flew around like butter on ice. Now it's running like dropped dooks. so frustrating!
1st if you are not sure what is happening , turn the af screw all the way in until seated , then turn out 1 and 1/2 out .

From this as a starting point you go out and ride the bike .

1st run , stay at 1/4th throttle for 2-3 mins only at 2nd gear or 3rd to give a considerable amount of load in the engine.

Stop , pull the spark plugs , take a picture and note the color, clean it and put it back.

2nd run , stay at 1/2th throttle at 2nd - 3rd gear for 2-3 mins .

Stop , pull the spark plugs , take a picture and note the color, clean it and put it back.

3rd run, stay at 3/4 th throttle 1st you may want to accelerate and find a long strip of road , then stay in high gear 5th or 6th , stay on 3/4th throttle for 2-3 mins

Stop , pull the spark plugs , take a picture and note the color, clean it and put it back.

4th run , at wide open throttle , 1st accelerate normally , find a long strip of road , at 6th gear for 2-3mins .

Stop , pull the spark plugs , take a picture and note the color, clean it and put it back.
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Old July 26th, 2016, 06:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliusmichaelhonrada View Post
1st if you are not sure what is happening , turn the af screw all the way in until seated , then turn out 1 and 1/2 out .

From this as a starting point you go out and ride the bike .

1st run , stay at 1/4th throttle for 2-3 mins only at 2nd gear or 3rd to give a considerable amount of load in the engine.
Stop , pull the spark plugs , take a picture and note the color, clean it and put it back.

2nd run , stay at 1/2th throttle at 2nd - 3rd gear for 2-3 mins .

Stop , pull the spark plugs , take a picture and note the color, clean it and put it back.

3rd run, stay at 3/4 th throttle 1st you may want to accelerate and find a long strip of road , then stay in high gear 5th or 6th , stay on 3/4th throttle for 2-3 mins

Stop , pull the spark plugs , take a picture and note the color, clean it and put it back.

4th run , at wide open throttle , 1st accelerate normally , find a long strip of road , at 6th gear for 2-3mins .

Stop , pull the spark plugs , take a picture and note the color, clean it and put it back.
yeah but where do I go from there? I know it's lean, it's gotta be and I feel like no matter what I do with the mixture screws, I'm getting a lean mixture. it's kinda close but not enough. Will raising the needles one notch do anything? is it a sync issue? My exhaust is also popping A LOT. It's a musarri slip on. Not sure if that's normal.Doesn't seem normal. Also not sure if that pertinent to this situation.
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Old July 26th, 2016, 07:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyg199 View Post
I checked all that and retightened the carbs. got the idle to stop rising but it's still hanging around 300-3400rpm. This is since I put the smaller pilot jets in so should info back to the 40s? I was getting a terrible sputter while cruising at about half throttle which is why I took them out. Now the sputter is gone but it's doing this. And it's not pulling hard at all. I just went for a ride and it's hesitating at higher rpms. Like 9k and above. I don't get it, when I first installed the jets the bike flew around like butter on ice. Now it's running like dropped dooks. so frustrating!
hesitating around 9k is usually indicative on a needle issue.
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Old July 26th, 2016, 07:16 PM   #9
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Aren't you the guy that yanked your airbox lid after being told you need one? .
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Old July 26th, 2016, 08:15 PM   #10
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Ok , your exhaust is popping so that indicates a lean condition .
But that doesn't point where you should look at, you must identity if its popping on deceleration ? or acceleration? in a certain throttle opening? or through the whole rev range?

Are you sure you have an airbox with the lid and filter element in place? , how about the vacuum hoses?

Also when adjusting the AF screw, the result is not instantaneous , you should wait 15 - 30 secs everytime you turn the screw before the change is obvious , same for the RPM screw.

If by chance your SLIP-ON muffler is less restrictive than the STOCK , then you need a bigger pilot jet because the SLIP-ON made the air/fuel mixture too lean for the stock jettings
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Old July 27th, 2016, 08:08 AM   #11
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You need to start thinking in terms of throttle position when tuning a carb.

Basiclly, idle mixture is controlled by the Pilot Jet with additional fuel being metered by the Idle Mixture Screws.

From there (1/8 ) you transition mostly to the Jet Needle (and Needle Jet - which is not adjustable on the Ninja ) setting through around 1/2 throttle and above where the fuel is eventually controlled almost totally by the Main Jet at WOT (Wide Open Throttle).

If you cruise at 1/2 throttle and it doesn't fuel properly, I would look mostly at the Needle Jet - but the Main Jet also is a factor. It's recommended to set the Main Jet first (WOT running). When you get it to run properly at WOT, focus next on the Needle setting to get smooth running in the 1/2 throttle area. After that, tune the idle mixture screws to get a good idle. If you are 3 turns out or more it indicates the need for a richer Pilot Jet.

Your Idle Mixture passages may be partially blocked if the screws have little or no effect.

I would also confirm that you don't have any vacuum leaks, and look at the plugs.
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Old July 27th, 2016, 08:08 AM   #12
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^^ this.

Example: I recently put a full exhaust on, and I was flat and lean all over the place. Once I switched the mains and pilots my lean condition went away entirely except for 1/8-1/4 throttle and on decel. Next I shimmed the needles with another washer and re tested. 1/8-1/4 throttle got better but still was slightly lean down low so I adjusted the mixture screws and that's about how far I got. Need to take her for another ride after work but that's the fun of tuning, you get to do it a bunch in different combinations/ways till you get what you desire.
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Old July 27th, 2016, 10:24 AM   #13
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http://factorypro.com/tech/tech_tuni...m_engines.html will help you step through the tuning methodically.
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Old July 27th, 2016, 10:30 AM   #14
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You can also add a bit of enrichener ("choke") when the engine is fully warm to confirm that you have a lean mixture.

If it's lean it will run better with it than it did without.
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Old August 2nd, 2016, 06:26 PM   #15
garyg199
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Okay so here's where I am at now. I didn't exactly have the factory lid for my airbox BUT the thing is that it was running fine at one point without it. I can't remember when this was and what I did but I remember I became too rich shortly after. I AM buying the lid right now because I tested it by covering it with a little makeshift piece I made and it idled PERFECT. However, because it wasn't the factory lid that actually fits the airbox, it wasn't getting passed 8k rpm (I'm guessing because it was just completely blocking the airflow at higher rpms. I got rid of the low speed sputter by dropping my needles lower, but after my bike warms up it is idling at 3-3500 rpms. No good. I've still got the #100 mains and the #40 pilots back in after the stock pilots showed no difference besides flattening my pull/power. I have the snorkel back in and the clips on the 2ND position as well. It must be the cover right? @CrazyCanuckGoat is gonna be shaking his head, but I swear I'm getting it now! ha!

Can someone answer me this though. In the picture it's showing a "cap seal" (92093a), do I also need to buy that? or is that seal in the lid itself?(11065). Are there two different screws shown in the picture that hold it in place as well? I emailed the website, but I'm sure I will hear from one of you faster. The KS for all the help as always!
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Old August 7th, 2016, 10:41 AM   #16
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