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Old November 5th, 2010, 09:02 PM   #41
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Much appreciated.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 07:11 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sahib Thaddeus View Post
Many people don't know this, buuuuuuut the ex 500 motor fits in the ninja 250 frame with no alterations. I know this true on the older ones, I believe true on the newer ones. Just look up part numbers for the motor mounts.
This was a fast mod to get under the insurance laws when the 250 first came out.
Enjoy!!
What year would this ex500 motor be. I would like to hunt this baby down and replace my stock 250r motor that got severe water damage.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 07:42 PM   #43
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As far as I can tell, no ninja 500 engine is a direct fit into any ninja 250 chassis. I've done a 1990 500 engine into a 2009 250 chassis. Definitely not a direct fit. Some people may tell you that it may be a bolt-in affair, but they most likely haven't done it. There should be pictures posted on this thread, but if you need to see more, lemme know.
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Old May 18th, 2011, 09:13 PM   #44
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Thanks for replying to my question. If doing this swap, what are the things I would have to change on the stock 250r set-up to get the ex500 running. (Electronic/electrical/gauges/sensors/cables/etc.) Or would everything just reconnect to th ex500. (I doubt it will, but hope).
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Old May 19th, 2011, 05:43 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by standard81 View Post
As far as I can tell, no ninja 500 engine is a direct fit into any ninja 250 chassis. I've done a 1990 500 engine into a 2009 250 chassis. Definitely not a direct fit. Some people may tell you that it may be a bolt-in affair, but they most likely haven't done it. There should be pictures posted on this thread, but if you need to see more, lemme know.
I'd like pics

Do any of the mounting points bolt up? I know that the frames are different so you need to create mounting points for the front of the ex500 motor.

Also for anyone else thinking about this, the 1st generation ex500 motors have bad flywheels and cam chain tensioners. So if you are looking for a motor to try this out with try to get a newer motor, otherwise you're in for another ~$130 worth of parts to upgrade the 1st gen motor.

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Old May 19th, 2011, 10:52 AM   #46
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There isnt a replacement for displacement (negating boost or n20) to be as cliche as possible. even with significant mods the 250 motor will be just what it is, a capable motor in its class.

Adding a 500 motor is logical for those who want to play with the bike. People always told me I should swap in a 4V 4.6 or buy a Cobra when I was chasing the 600rwhp mark in my Mustang. I sure could have but I wanted to do it with my car and my motor. I succeded and it was very rewarding and informative.

The same goes here. I would really like to see a kit developed and a streamlined process created to allow this to be a common step for those looking to up the ante without stepping onto a new bike. I would love to start this if I had a spare Ninja and a motor as I have everything I would need to accomplish this.

Matt & Chadwick, are the mounts used easy to manufacture? What about some other details about the swap? I'm sure with a collaborative effort a kit could come together that you could sell.

As for me I would only do this to say I did. I always have something else with more power if I desire to use it. The Ninja is perfect for what it is and what I use it for.
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Old May 19th, 2011, 04:04 PM   #47
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Talking

I agree with u 100% darC. The mods that I know of for are little 250r's are some what of a joke compared to what's out there for the guys with bigger bikes. I would never dream of getting a different bike just because of mods, I love my bike. You always hear people say, " if u want more power just buy a bigger bike". Well were is the fun in that. When u own a machine, and u do what no one else has done to it, its a truly amazing feeling. This type of breed of people died a long time ago.... to bad. I want a 250r ninja with a 500 engine, not a new bike! Dont get me wrong, I love the 250r motor. But mine died after 6,000 miles from water damage (long story, my fault... I had a dumb moment) so why not a better time to try this mod out. I'm on a mission go make this happen, wish me luck. Anyone with knowledge on this swap please speak up and post, I would appreciate it.
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Old May 19th, 2011, 05:44 PM   #48
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I agree with u 100% darC. The mods that I know of for are little 250r's are some what of a joke compared to what's out there for the guys with bigger bikes. I would never dream of getting a different bike just because of mods, I love my bike. You always hear people say, " if u want more power just buy a bigger bike". Well were is the fun in that. When u own a machine, and u do what no one else has done to it, its a truly amazing feeling. This type of breed of people died a long time ago.... to bad. I want a 250r ninja with a 500 engine, not a new bike! Dont get me wrong, I love the 250r motor. But mine died after 6,000 miles from water damage (long story, my fault... I had a dumb moment) so why not a better time to try this mod out. I'm on a mission go make this happen, wish me luck. Anyone with knowledge on this swap please speak up and post, I would appreciate it.
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Old May 22nd, 2011, 02:49 AM   #49
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each to their own but i have a 200 hp bike and i'm really digging the slowness of the 250r-it's kind of liberating -i 'm throwing a few go fast things at it but only a few people in the world can get the most out of a superbike-it's a blast wringing that little bike out and making the most of your riding ability -i'm, new to the 250r and maybe i will sick of the lack of power ,but right now its a blast
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Old June 19th, 2011, 09:21 AM   #50
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just bought new pistons for the bike, it will take her up a little, just 265cc, and im getting the compression upped, and port the engine at the same time~



those are the new pistons~ just picked them up on saturday.

the 1st bike that my mechanic is working on should be done mid of this week with the new piston, and then he will work on my bike. hope it works out good



im so so so tempted to buy the CR carbs... but it costs like $650 here tho while on sudko's website they are selling i think the same one for like $455, aff, damn import taxes into this country...
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Old June 19th, 2011, 09:53 AM   #51
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just bought new pistons for the bike, it will take her up a little, just 265cc, and im getting the compression upped, and port the engine at the same time~



those are the new pistons~ just picked them up on saturday.

the 1st bike that my mechanic is working on should be done mid of this week with the new piston, and then he will work on my bike. hope it works out good



im so so so tempted to buy the CR carbs... but it costs like $650 here tho while on sudko's website they are selling i think the same one for like $455, aff, damn import taxes into this country...
What are the advantage of this carb ? and also, will those piston will fit directly into our motor ?
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Old June 19th, 2011, 11:53 AM   #52
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Old June 19th, 2011, 05:26 PM   #53
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the piston diameter is slightly bigger, thus the slight increase in volume.

means that they need to bore up the cylinders a little.

so its not just going to be a plug and play replacement.

regarding the carb, these CR carbs dont use a vacuum slide which has a slight delay in the reaction time to raise the sliders. when you open the throttle up, it controls the slides directly, giving a more responsive feel.

i believe RacerX is using a CR carb, not sure what size though, maybe the CR31? or one of the bigger ones~
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Old June 19th, 2011, 06:26 PM   #54
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I am running the CR31s .They are great .Sooo easy to tune.Jet or needle changes are done in seconds.The lack of a vacuum slide means you have to ride like a race bike should be ridden .Smooth throttle inputs .You can't just wack the throttle below 7000 rpm.But when the engine is boiling and you run through. The gears at 10000 rpm plus. That is when these carbs shine.

I have a cylinder that is damaged from rust.The bike sat out in the rain before I got it. I was looking at JE Pistons. They make forged 12.5 to 1 over size pistons that bring it up to 265cc . I don't know the cost .
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Old June 19th, 2011, 07:18 PM   #55
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@ Eric, just in case your interested, these pistons cost me just under $90 for the pair. (excluding the rings, which i need to buy separately).

im not sure what the JE ones cost, but if your interested to experiment around with an old left over engine, i could send you a pair of these to try out.

they are locally made here in indonesia i believe. but supposedly using decent alloy. good enough that the OEM Kawasaki is endorsing them as an original part.

the mechanic im using also told me that this brand is quite good, he has used them on race bikes (mopeds, lol) and they hold out the thrashing they get really well. ive asked him about bore up, and/or increased compression ratio since a while, and he has told me to wait till this company releases the piston, since the other locally available brands are not good enough (locally made) or way too expensive (imports like JE i guess).

ill post a dyno graph of the other ninja that he is still working on once he reassembles it and does a final run. im expecting that its possibly gonna be over 35 Hp if all goes well

regarding the CR carbs... drool... sigh~ drool... i think ill have to buy it and not tell my GF how much it costs. otherwise shes gonna think ive gone even crazy-er!

btw, Eric, did you pay the Sudko website price over there? like $455 for your CR31's? i wonder if i can find a victim thats coming back to bali soon who could maybe hand carry it, lol... would save me almost $200!

did your package include all the required parts to tune the carbs? i am not really familiar with CR carbs, but im guessing they also have different main jets, pilot jets, needle positions etc like the vacuum carbs?

thnx in advance for the info~ and yeah, i think i did ask you about these carbs in the past on another thread, but im terrible with the search engine on the forums, lol and i might be asking some different questions now too
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Old June 27th, 2011, 08:49 PM   #56
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when i went back to the mechanic last week (haven't started work on my bike yet) i compared the original piston from the bike hes working on now, with the new ones i bought, there is like a 1 or was it 2 mm increase in the diameter, and the top end/head of the piston comes out more, which creates the higher compression ratio compared to the stock piston. plus the fact that there is also a slightly larger volume in the actual piston chamber.

i wonder what compression ratio this will push it up to.

there seems to be a shortage on good piston rings here at the moment. they had to keep delaying the other bike because they couldnt find piston rings, and now they are still waiting to find me a set... sigh~

was really curious to find out what kind of improvement (i hope there will be some, lol) i will get with this mod + porting, etc.

gotta sit tight and wait for these piston rings now
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Old June 28th, 2011, 12:12 AM   #57
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Hope it all works out well for ya. DYNO THAT BABY. Im interested.
I wont tear the motor apart for 15cc's. BUT 15cc a piston would get me thinking. Give me a nice little bump in compression and a new cam or 2, and some head work and we would be talking turkey. Doubt theres room for that kind of bore in the motor, but I can dream anyway.
Imagine a ninja 280.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 12:10 AM   #58
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well the piston i was hoping to use is a FAIL, lol....

thankfully it was tested on some other bike and not mine.

after 2 or 3 weeks of messing about and trying different settings, alll they were able to gain out of these new pistons is a -2Hp (yeah, it lost power, rofl).

they expect that its due to the low quality material used... since as far as the shape is concerned, it should have been good. bigger bore (64mm instead of 62) and a slightly bigger head, increasing the compression ratio. anyhow, im sure there is lots and lots of research required to be able to build pistons that gain power over stock, something that this manufacturer obviously doesnt have enough of.

the mechanic then confirmed with three other workshops that they were getting similar results using these pistons (ie. drop of power).

soo.... i guess ill just leave the pistons alone, and get the engine ported and re-tuned for now, lol that should already add some ponies into the small stampede.

now im looking into the JE pistons. and wonder.... what piston would be best to use out of their available ninja 250 pistons (they have 5 to choose from!)



282cc... mmm...mmm...mm... anyone know if that is possible to bore up with the original sleeve? or does it need a totally new/replaced piston sleve thinggy? lol, forgot what its called

back to square one, research time, yey!
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Old July 17th, 2011, 01:21 AM   #59
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Old July 20th, 2011, 12:09 AM   #60
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JE pistons informed me that we need to replace the sleeves if you want to use the 282cc pistons, so im gonna avoid doing that and keep the original sleeve, and probably go with the 265cc pistons. at least the compression ratio will go up to 12.5:1, which would already be an improvement on its own.

next step~ buying it and getting it brought half way across the globe to lil Bali, hehe

PS, eric told me he is using the 13:1 compression pistons, with the stock bore. no wonder hes able to pull off those sweet speed records although i think he went a little trigger happy with the NOS a couple runs back and brought the forged piston to its melting point, hehe...
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Old July 20th, 2011, 12:40 AM   #61
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make sure keep us up to date ;]
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Old July 20th, 2011, 03:46 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayanlam View Post
JE pistons informed me that we need to replace the sleeves if you want to use the 282cc pistons, so im gonna avoid doing that and keep the original sleeve, and probably go with the 265cc pistons. at least the compression ratio will go up to 12.5:1, which would already be an improvement on its own.

next step~ buying it and getting it brought half way across the globe to lil Bali, hehe

PS, eric told me he is using the 13:1 compression pistons, with the stock bore. no wonder hes able to pull off those sweet speed records although i think he went a little trigger happy with the NOS a couple runs back and brought the forged piston to its melting point, hehe...
I traced my problem to a faulty injector. After having some problems with preignition on the right side I tested the system . I was not getting any fuel flow from the right side. I sent them the system and they confirmed it.
That means I ran 122 with 10 hp on the left side and an engine damaging dry shot to the right side.
I have it sorted now and am rebuilding the engine with 13 to 1 JE pistons again. But I will also do a LOT of small things to prevent detonation.
Sorry for the thread jack.
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Old July 20th, 2011, 08:20 AM   #63
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well the piston i was hoping to use is a FAIL, lol....

thankfully it was tested on some other bike and not mine.

after 2 or 3 weeks of messing about and trying different settings, alll they were able to gain out of these new pistons is a -2Hp (yeah, it lost power, rofl).

they expect that its due to the low quality material used... since as far as the shape is concerned, it should have been good. bigger bore (64mm instead of 62) and a slightly bigger head, increasing the compression ratio. anyhow, im sure there is lots and lots of research required to be able to build pistons that gain power over stock, something that this manufacturer obviously doesnt have enough of.
Wayan, I don't think it's the quality of material, but the piston itself. The picture speaks a thousand words. If you look at it, you can see all the casting flaws in the piston. It looks to be coated with something as well, probably a ceramic coating. The problem is, you can't just coat a badly casted piston and think it's going to work. The piston needs to be very smooth because other wise, it creates hot spots on the piston which leads to pre-ignition. I've replaced pistons on my old car with oem mitsubishi ones. Even though it wasn't all nice and polished like the aftermarket ones, it was still extremely smooth.

I think it's best in the end if you do get the porting done first and get it tuned. That way, you will know how much each component affects the bike. If you get it dyno-tuned, then you'll be able to tell if the new displacement and CR made a good difference or not. Same with the porting.
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Old July 20th, 2011, 10:02 AM   #64
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to me that piston looks cast. This is a forged JE piston
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Old July 20th, 2011, 05:04 PM   #65
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There is a 282 kit. at 12.5 to 1
Im thinking......... when the bottom end lets go.
I would rather have a 13 to 1 but Im sure you can grab a bit more with a thin gasket. 12.75 to 1
Who is making cams??? anyone making performance rocker arms??
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Old July 20th, 2011, 05:04 PM   #66
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to me that piston looks cast. This is a forged JE piston
Aint that perrrrrty
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Old July 20th, 2011, 05:50 PM   #67
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You can't get thinner head gaskets. But you can have .010 cut from the block. I do not cut the head because of the cumbusion chamber shape.You need to adjust the cams timing if ypu change the distance from crank to cam though.
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Old July 21st, 2011, 07:54 AM   #68
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You could always just have JE cut custom pistons to the CR you want.
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Old July 21st, 2011, 08:06 AM   #69
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They come in 12, 12.5 and13 to 1.JE will custom make you anything you want I think it is sets of four for 800.00 dollars
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Old July 24th, 2011, 06:37 AM   #70
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Just got a set of 13 to 1 pistons From JE.
I shot some photos of the stock piston in one side and the high compression pistons side by side. The ruff surface of the stock piston is because it is a cast piston. That means they poured aluminum into a mold then when it cooled they remove it and machine the ring groves and pin hole. This process makes perfectly good pistons. But not pistons capable of high pressure or temp. When they say forged pistons .That means they pushed the aluminum under pressure into a tube .

This link is long but interesting . How they make pistons. 300 dollars a set with pins and rings seems like a good deal after watching how much work goes into them. http://youtu.be/bPF7jdPyQaU
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Old July 24th, 2011, 06:49 AM   #71
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so so shiny.... my preciouussss....
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Old August 20th, 2011, 02:16 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by wayanlam View Post
JE pistons informed me that we need to replace the sleeves if you want to use the 282cc pistons, so im gonna avoid doing that and keep the original sleeve, and probably go with the 265cc pistons. at least the compression ratio will go up to 12.5:1, which would already be an improvement on its own.

next step~ buying it and getting it brought half way across the globe to lil Bali, hehe

PS, eric told me he is using the 13:1 compression pistons, with the stock bore. no wonder hes able to pull off those sweet speed records although i think he went a little trigger happy with the NOS a couple runs back and brought the forged piston to its melting point, hehe...
anything yet :P?
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Old August 20th, 2011, 09:49 PM   #73
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the piston is in my LA office, but waiting for my colleague to come to bali to hand carry it when he comes in September.

gonna port the engine soon first tho. waiting for my brothers bike to get fixed 1st, so i can use that while my bike is away.

wanna see the step by step improvement~

i just noticed that they are about to release a 13.5:1 compression piston for both the 265cc and 285cc pistons. wonder how they would be with high octane fuel!
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Old August 20th, 2011, 10:44 PM   #74
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I just want to point out that Burt Munro had cast piston, and his bike was the fastest indian in the world.
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Old August 21st, 2011, 01:09 PM   #75
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@wayan please let me know what happen when ur bike is finished already, i might get the same piston that u get...
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Old August 21st, 2011, 01:19 PM   #76
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I just want to point out that Burt Munro had cast piston, and his bike was the fastest indian in the world.
The last for years at Bonniville Burt used Nitro . He went through a all his pistons.then went home. Sad really. But he would not take advice from Marty Dickerson on the mixtrue or the pistons.
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Old September 11th, 2011, 01:55 AM   #77
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finally got the parts! wow they look BLING!









but, i still havent gotten around to getting the engine ported, since i wanna get that done 1st to see what the gains are and what the bike can put out with the stock pistons, before upgrading to the 265cc's

will keep updating once i get some progress and results
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Old September 11th, 2011, 03:24 AM   #78
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Are those big bore or standard 12.5 to1 s?
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Old September 11th, 2011, 05:20 PM   #79
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its the "big bore" if you wanna call it that, lol +2mm diameter over the standard, @ 12.5:1 (265cc)

i saw on their website last time i looked that there are both the 265 and 285cc's coming out that will have a 13.5:1 compression, which were not available when i bought these. although i think i would still have chosen the 12.5:1 even if i did have a choice, since the fuel octane in this country isnt great.

W.
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Old September 11th, 2011, 05:47 PM   #80
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Sorry that was a dumb question. The shiney parts got me all excited.
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