Need help deciding whether I should Downgrade

[nickjpass]

Currently on a zx-6r, sorta interested in a 300/smaller bike. Not quite sure if I should though?

[DEFY]

You try riding the 300 at the track, they just started that 15 bucks for a session. Start with body position and comfort and that will work you toward quicker laps.

[stevect]

What track is offering $15 track sessions?

[nickjpass]

It's 75 for two sessions at NYST.

[AwDang]

You could spend a year riding a 250/300 then go back to the ZX6

[Sirref]

Yeah but those are stock bikes aren't they? Gotta at least switch the front tire for them to be fun and safe at track pace

edit: @AwDang is right, that is the ideal way to go about it

I know tons of guys who own a 600/1000 and a 300. They improve so rapidly it's stupid. Running both bikes back to back continuously shows you ways to improve on the other

[nickjpass]

I've got a few friends that wouldn't mind loaning me a 300 for a session.

[stevect]

I have one of each. 09 600 for track, z1K/250 for street. I run an intermediate pace (1:42ish) in NYST uptown. I want to improve entrance and exit speed along with bp, I didnt think about running 250 on track could improve that.

Pirelli demons decent enough trackday tire for 250?

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by stevect

I have one of each. 09 600 for track, z1K/250 for street. I run an intermediate pace (1:42ish) in NYST uptown. I want to improve entrance and exit speed along with bp, I didnt think about running 250 on track could improve that.

Pirelli demons decent enough trackday tire for 250?

Ask sirreff about the tires. If you want to carry more corner speed, ride the smaller bike on the track.

[AwDang]

I like the A13's for cheap, durable and sticky

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by stevect

I have one of each. 09 600 for track, z1K/250 for street. I run an intermediate pace (1:42ish) in NYST uptown. I want to improve entrance and exit speed along with bp, I didnt think about running 250 on track could improve that.

Pirelli demons decent enough trackday tire for 250?

Entry and exit... 100% yes. bp possibly not. When I finally understood what was going on between me and the bike, I realized I needed some ergo changes to enable really, really aggressive bp.

Bluntness...
Riding a lower hp bike around the track is humbling. You simply can't make up for lack of corner speed via the throttle on exit. You straight up have to be fast because YOU ARE. Period... Why? because 97mph in a corner is just the same as any other bike. CC's need not apply except on the straights. In due time, you may find that larger cc bikes are pulling on your on exit. At that point, out steer them and get back to the throttle sooner and that gain is erased. Then at some point you will start running into hella traffic on your "little bike". Time to move up or get a larger cc bike and take the time to get used to it before moving up a track day group.

Simply put, you can't cheat skills on a low hp bike. And largely, aside of steering, vision and line skills, what you learn on a little bike is nearly 100% applicable to a larger cc bike.

/real talk...
My r6 lines, turn in points, braking markers, ect... are nearly the same as my 250's. Why? Because the machine is soooooo much more capable. If you want to accelerate your on track learning, get a little bike that you can just toss around with little to no effort. When you get something stronger power/faster between your legs, then adjusting to corner speed is not really a factor. Just adjusting to the new bike's capabilities.

/100% honesty
It took me about 4rys of solid track riding to finally outride the 250's abilities, perhaps a 300 is different, idunno until I can take one to max pace. At that same time, I have been riding my r6 and I would estimate that I am only at about 80% of it's abilities in stock form. And for full disclosure, you can drag an elbow on a stock r6. ijs....

Answering your question:
Yes, the demons are enough for a track day with the right mindset of the rider. They are capable of near lap record paces with optimal track/weather/setup/rider conditions.

[csmith12]

Also,

Now that Nick has a season or two behind him on the 600, I am not 100% sure downgrading is in his best interest based on forum posts. I would have to see him ride with my own eyes.

[nickjpass]

The quickest I've gone is probably a 1:45ish which a mid intermediate pace. The quickest I've seen at the track is a 1:26, which is done by fast ccs and ama riders. A buddy of mine will let me ride their 300 this weekend.

I'd say I'm losing a lot of speed with corner entry. I just don't have the confidence in myself and the machine yet.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

I'd say I'm losing a lot of speed with corner entry. I just don't have the confidence in myself and the machine yet.

This statement answers your own question about confidence. If you have to guess or question yourself... then the answer is no, but progress is always just around the corner.

imho, stock kawi's have a pretty bad initial throttle roll vs what is possible. This holds riders back quite a bit when they are trying to work out their throttle control skills to the nth degree. This is especially true on a the zx10's. Perhaps that is a factor for you and you could use a custom throttle/fuel mapping to smooth it out a bit. Next would be to really hammer on your quick turn and vision skills. Once you get a handle on those, riding a bike faster becomes much easier. Because cc's don't matter on entry when your on the brakes.

You will never enter a corner "on purpose" any faster than your ability to get the bike turned and at a proper entry speed than your skills allow. The bike is largely irrelevant here. - csmith

[nickjpass]

Gonna test ride a buddies cbr250 or maybe an r3, and I'll see what I think then.

[csmith12]

r3!!!!



Please give a review if you would.

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by csmith12

r3!!!!



Please give a review if you would.

I've ridden one a couple hundred feet and didn't like the throttle response, it felt very "carby". I'll try and ride the r3 on the track and let you know

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

Currently on a zx-6r, sorta interested in a 300/smaller bike. Not quite sure if I should though?

You are asking people on the Ninja 250/300 web site if you should get a Ninja 250/300?

That's kind of like asking drunks in the bar if you should have another drink.

[nickjpass]

If you read the above posts you'll see the mood is rather towards me keeping the zx

[csmith12]

@stevect, sorry if my post come off as pushy (after rereading). Your input is welcome and well taken. :\ My bad...

[Toly]

Why not get a literbike, eh?

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Toly

Why not get a literbike, eh?

For 2014+ 1000cc bikes, your statement may hold more truth than you might think. The newer bmw sr1000rr are amazing machines. The new yami r1's may even be better than that.

[nickjpass]

One good reason is that I'll burn through less tires if I don't, as long as I keep mine from spinning.