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Old June 14th, 2016, 02:49 AM   #1
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Rear tire?

Is it possible to get a wider rear tire on a ninja 250? I rode a bigger bike this weekend and I felt a little more stable going over rough patches and I'm convinced it's because of the larger tires.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 05:11 AM   #2
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Appropriate tire size is limited by rim width for proper profile. There are many reasons why the other bike may have felt more stable, it may not be the rear tire size in particular.

That being said, a good radial tire, in a 150 section width and a 60 series aspect ratio (150/60/17) would probably be the largest width rear tire that I would recommend on a stock rear wheel.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 05:16 AM   #3
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What tires do you have on your bike now?

My daughters pregen had the stock Dunlop on the rear and a Pirelli on the front. I had Pirelli's front and rear. We swapped bikes once in the mountains, on the first tight corner I was all over the place. I put a Pirelli on the back of hers the next day.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 05:21 AM   #4
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What tires do you have on your bike now?

My daughters pregen had the stock Dunlop on the rear and a Pirelli on the front. I had Pirelli's front and rear. We swapped bikes once in the mountains, on the first tight corner I was all over the place. I put a Pirelli on the back of hers the next day.
PRetty sure they are stock, the previous owner never did anything with the bike, it has 4.8k on it
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Old June 14th, 2016, 06:17 AM   #5
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There are a number of issues with a stock Ninjette that could affect how stable it feels. I'd put tire width at the end of that list.
  • The springrates are mismatched. (Front, Rear)
  • There's a good chance neither springrate matches your weight.
  • Stock tires are bias-ply.
  • Stock tires are known more for longevity than performance.
  • Stock 2012 tires are nearing the end of their useful life now, regardless of their mileage.
  • Little Ninjas are known for weak, flexing frames.

I have a 150/60 on my wider aftermarket wheel. I switched from a durable bias-ply tire to a performance radial, so it definitely feels different, but I'm pretty sure the extra 20mm has minimal to no effect.

Here's what going from a 130/70 to a 150/60 looks like.






Keep in mind that going to a wider tire on a wheel that's too narrow will actually pinch it in, causing the profile to be altered, which can lead to less tire in contact with the ground. The 300 uses a 140 rather than a 130, but it also has a wider wheel.

A 150/60 is also getting close to fitment limits. People have had trouble with certain tire models in that size just due to spacing issues from using a different sprocket size.


In my opinion, springing the bike to match your weight and getting modern radial tires like the Pilot Street will do a lot more for you than getting an extra pencil-width of tire.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 06:34 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360 View Post
Is it possible to get a wider rear tire on a ninja 250? I rode a bigger bike this weekend and I felt a little more stable going over rough patches and I'm convinced it's because of the larger tires.
Why are you "convinced" it's because of the larger tires?
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Old June 14th, 2016, 07:19 AM   #7
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Michelin Pilot Streets come in 130 and 140. I ran 140's on my 2009 250. I think you would be just as happy with ether one and the 130's are cheaper. Like has been said, It maybe the quality of the tire and not the width that you like.

140s look better
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Old June 14th, 2016, 07:27 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by allanoue View Post
Michelin Power streets come in 130 and 140. I ran 140's on my 2009 250. I think you would be just as happy with ether one and the 130's are cheaper. Like has been said, It maybe the quality of the tire and not the width that you like.

140s look better
it could be possible, it just felt a lot more "grippy" and less like I was going to lose it in the corner, could have been the bike too, dunno
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Old June 14th, 2016, 07:35 AM   #9
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Would a 140/70R-17 66H be too much off? I think youre supposed to go with a 130/60 technically, does going from 60 to 70 effect your speedometer?
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Old June 14th, 2016, 07:36 AM   #10
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Higher powered bikes have wider tires to get the power to the road at the expense of maneuverability.

You are right. The OEM tires are hard and were made to last a long time and not to be grippy.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 07:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360 View Post
Would a 140/70R-17 66H be too much off? I think youre supposed to go with a 130/60 technically, does going from 60 to 70 effect your speedometer?
140/70R-17 Is what I got and the speedo was the same 7% off as the OEM 130s
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Old June 14th, 2016, 07:42 AM   #12
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140/70R-17 Is what I got and the speedo was the same 7% off as the OEM 130s
Is there a way to fix this
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Old June 14th, 2016, 07:58 AM   #13
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Yes, if you search the site there are some how too's but the math is easy. If your speedo shows 85 you are actually going about 80.

I just go by GPS on my phone. When I get my Shully in a few weeks, GPS will be heads up
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Old June 14th, 2016, 08:00 AM   #14
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The speedo cable goes to the front tire.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 10:00 AM   #15
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Too many times I have referred to Pilot Streets as power streets

Fixing

Pilot Streets
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Old June 14th, 2016, 10:09 AM   #16
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The difference in diameters between the sizes is 20MM. This means the rear of the bike will be raised 10MM with the 140 tire.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 10:28 AM   #17
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The biggest tire you can get away with without having it pinch was the Bridgestone Battlax BT-016 150/16 but I think they don't produce them anymore. I sold my Ninja 250 but I can recommend that tire 100%.

In my opinion having a larger tire is not the problem with the ninja feeling stable, it just has to do with the weight of the bike. You just have to get use to the feeling of being blown around a bit.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 12:05 PM   #18
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I just put a new pair of Kenda's on mine and I'm quite happy with them for the price. I believe they were the K671's.

Stock front size and I bumped the rear up to a 140/70 which is what my 01 ZZR250 had stock.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 02:43 PM   #19
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Too many times I have referred to Pilot Streets as power streets

Fixing

Pilot Streets
I'm a huge fan of the pilot road as well. I have the pilot road 4 on for.t and back. They are a great commuter tire. The pilot power however is more of a sticky tire if thats what your looking for.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 03:38 PM   #20
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Have you taken the MSF yet?
If not they will teach you how to ride on rough roads.
1. Stay light on the bars. Any input on the bars become output by the bike (all the way to the tires)
2. Raise up off the seat when going over bumps.

The tire size won't make as big of a difference as proper riding techniques.
The tire pressure can also change the feel, to much will give less grip.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 04:38 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360 View Post
Is it possible to get a wider rear tire on a ninja 250? I rode a bigger bike this weekend and I felt a little more stable going over rough patches and I'm convinced it's because of the larger tires.
Actually, a larger tire will make your bike less stable, the suspension worst and the lean angle bigger.

There is a reason for the engineers that designed your bike to specify that size of tire.

Regarding grip, you can rest assured that at this stage of your riding development, you have a huge amount of grip in reserve.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 05:59 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by RacinNinja View Post
The difference in diameters between the sizes is 20MM. This means the rear of the bike will be raised 10MM with the 140 tire.
ahhh no

the 140 is the width of the tire, the next number is the aspect ratio or height in % of the width. So a 140/70 17 140(width in mm)/70 (height 70% of 140mm = 98mm) 17 (rim diameter in inches)

With that being said a 130/70 17 would have an aspect ratio of 70% of 130mm = 91mm

98 - 91 = 7mm so a 140/70 17 would be 7mm higher than a 130/70 17 if they were the same tire other than size.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 06:08 PM   #23
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ahhh no

the 140 is the width of the tire, the next number is the aspect ratio or height in % of the width. So a 140/70 17 140(width in mm)/70 (height 70% of 140mm = 98mm) 17 (rim diameter in inches)

With that being said a 130/70 17 would have an aspect ratio of 70% of 130mm = 91mm

98 - 91 = 7mm so a 140/17 17 would be 7mm higher than a 130/70 17 if they were the same tire other than size.
130/60 is what was ZeroGravity posted here. 60% of 130 is 78. 98-78mm = 20mm. half of that is 10mm.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 06:11 PM   #24
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^ you are still wrong just FYI
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Old June 14th, 2016, 06:25 PM   #25
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^ you are still wrong just FYI
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Old June 14th, 2016, 06:45 PM   #26
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^ seriously, why are you dividing the aspect ratio difference by 2?
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Old June 14th, 2016, 07:22 PM   #27
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Two thoughts on this:

It could be the suspension. The stock Ninjette suspension is not the best even when tuned and if not appropriately set this could easily make the ride feel bumpier/less stable

It could also be the advantage of the Ninjette: light weight/flickability. A larger bike will weigh more and thus have more momentum keeping it going the way it's going. It will also have wider tires for reasons already discussed. If you're tight on the bars or otherwise giving input in rough situations then this ease of maneuver could work to your detriment and make the bike feel less stable. Good throttle control and light on the bars is the number one way to stabilize a bike, regardless of size.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 08:30 PM   #28
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yes, you can put on a tire up to 150/60/17 on the new gen 250. I ran Metzeler M5 150/60 on the rear for a long time.

this is the left over from max lean angle.

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Old June 15th, 2016, 04:38 AM   #29
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^ seriously, why are you dividing the aspect ratio difference by 2?
I don't know about divide by 2, but it seems that the discussion is missing the multiply by 2 that is necessary when calculating tire height. Yes - 140/70 means that the height of the tire is 70% of 140, or 98mm. But that's on both the top and bottom of the wheel, so the overall diameter of the tire is 98mm for the top of the tire, + 17" for the wheel diameter, + 98mm for the bottom of the tire. A difference of 7 mm in the calculated tire height of the tire itself, by tire size, would be a 14mm difference in actual tire diameter on the bike, right?

All of this gets fuzzy in the real world, as the tire sizes themselves aren't exactly accurate, and differ based on manufacturer and type of tire.
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Old June 15th, 2016, 05:01 AM   #30
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I don't know about divide by 2, but it seems that the discussion is missing the multiply by 2.
Alex, I would have thought of all people you would think of it as a shift left or right

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Old June 15th, 2016, 05:11 AM   #31
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I don't know about divide by 2, but it seems that the discussion is missing the multiply by 2 that is necessary when calculating tire height. Yes - 140/70 means that the height of the tire is 70% of 140, or 98mm. But that's on both the top and bottom of the wheel, so the overall diameter of the tire is 98mm for the top of the tire, + 17" for the wheel diameter, + 98mm for the bottom of the tire. A difference of 7 mm in the calculated tire height of the tire itself, by tire size, would be a 14mm difference in actual tire diameter on the bike, right?

All of this gets fuzzy in the real world, as the tire sizes themselves aren't exactly accurate, and differ based on manufacturer and type of tire.
I guess the devil is in the details and it pays to be as clear as possible.

Originally I was only talking about how much the rear would raise the rear end of the bike. So I was only using the change in aspect ratio (x1) as the other side of the tire would be facing up and have no effect on ride height. But yes, you are correct the overall tire outer diameter would be different
(aspect ratio x2)

And I totally agree on different tires, I did make it appoint to say this is only accurate if it was the same tire just in different sizes. I know far less about street tires than off road tires but in the off road world off the top of my head Dunlop, Pirelli and Bridgestone I think, use the same sizing, Then Michelin uses a different sizing, and so does IRC. In off road tires a Dunlop 120/100 18 is comparable to a IRC 140/80 18, and the Michelins run "small" as well. it might be a 130 = a 120 Dunlop there, its confusing and annoying at best.
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Old June 15th, 2016, 05:32 AM   #32
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why is there math in this thread! lol, my head is hurting already...
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Old June 15th, 2016, 05:43 AM   #33
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I dislike math as well but unfortunately it is quite important to motorcycles and their geometry which effects many aspects of handling.

Fortunately this math is easy Start looking at the math as far as how that couple of mm is going to effect the rake and trail of the bike and then your head will really start hurting.

Motorcycle frames are practically designed from the tires up. The engineers need to know what size tires they plan on using on the bike before they start figuring out the chassis geometry and fork/shock length ect... to give the bike the desired handling characteristics they wish to achieve. Is 7mm here or there going to make a drastic super dangerous change... probably not but just be aware that changing the tire size is give and take with the handling of the bike and a few small changes can add up to make big differences.
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Old June 15th, 2016, 06:09 AM   #34
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I wouldn't recommend the pilot powers. They lack a lot of feel.
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Old June 15th, 2016, 06:16 AM   #35
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I dislike math as well but unfortunately it is quite important to motorcycles and their geometry which effects many aspects of handling.

Fortunately this math is easy Start looking at the math as far as how that couple of mm is going to effect the rake and trail of the bike and then your head will really start hurting.

Motorcycle frames are practically designed from the tires up. The engineers need to know what size tires they plan on using on the bike before they start figuring out the chassis geometry and fork/shock length ect... to give the bike the desired handling characteristics they wish to achieve. Is 7mm here or there going to make a drastic super dangerous change... probably not but just be aware that changing the tire size is give and take with the handling of the bike and a few small changes can add up to make big differences.
After reading so many people giving good advice on here, I researched it hard yesterday. A few people even went to 150/70/17 on th eback and 130/70/17 on the front. They reasons they gave was because they like the way it makes it look like a 600. I agree it loos much better with bigger tires, even if it doesnt improve handling, i think it is cosmetically appealing :-p
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Old June 15th, 2016, 06:58 AM   #36
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what ever floats your boat, some people find this cosmetically appealing, I mean who really cares about form and function right? If you can't ride well then you might as well at least look good while riding.

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Old June 15th, 2016, 07:35 AM   #37
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So... You realize there's about 1,000 differences between a ninja 250 and a 600cc Supersport... right?

Pardon my density, but how in the heck did you narrow it down so quickly and confidently to just that one variable; tire width?
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Old June 15th, 2016, 07:47 AM   #38
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It is a bad idea to put 130s on the front.
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Old June 15th, 2016, 08:23 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by allanoue View Post
It is a bad idea to put 130s on the front.
i was thinking of keeping a 110 because they are the ones that come in the set:

http://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tube...7_QaAhKt8P8HAQ
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Old June 15th, 2016, 08:35 AM   #40
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