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Old November 12th, 2015, 12:04 PM   #1
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Exclamation Rear ended a Prius

Always thought someone would pull out on me or change lanes into me but this was entirely my lapse of attention.

Pulled out of a shopping plaza behind another car and went to pass them. As I was passing they decided they wanted to be In my lane so they drifted a bit towards me but then noticed me. So I decided to look over at them like a head turn would teach them to check their mirrors first or something.... as I look back at the road therea a prius maybe 50 ft in front of me. My 'Oh ****' reaction slowed me down from about 45mph to 25 or 20 mph as my front tire slammed into her bumper.

Because i was braking hard allllll of the weight was on the front and my bike basically tucked and somersaulted to land on its handlebars and grab bar with its wheels in the air as I got tossed and sort of tucked over the bars to the left, landing on my back. My backs okay, bruised a lil but thank god I was wearing an upgraded pad in my jacket. Shoulders a lil sore but overall im unscratched.
The bike is not so lucky,...... the frame cracked, destroyed my brake fluid reservoir, gouged up my controls, grips, and bar end mirrors. Tanks pretty scratched but it wasnt perfect anyway. Somehow my grab bar got bent towards the front of the bike.not sure if it slid or bounced off that when it somersaulted..

Her bumper barely had a mark on it. Was pushed out of place a tiny bit and just needed to be popped back into brackets which I did and a tiny rubber mark on the trim since I ride with no front fender. Luckily she was moving at the time.. Not completely stopped. Which allowed me and the bike to flip onto the asphalt not her windows.

Overall im a lucky POS to get right up and be able to move my bike right out of traffic then up a small hill.

Just posting this so if others are in the habit of looking at cagers when they 'wrong you'... its just not worth it. Eyes up and forward allllll the time. Dont be an idiot like me. And if you are an idiot like me you better ATGATT.
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Old November 12th, 2015, 12:15 PM   #2
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Glad you are well and able to learn from a common mistake.

Thank you for sharing.
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Old November 12th, 2015, 12:37 PM   #3
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Bummer Robert! Glad you're mostly good. Sorry the bike didn't fare better.
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Old November 12th, 2015, 02:13 PM   #4
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Dang Robert, glad you're ok, hope the bike gets all fixed up and pretty again, best wishes bro
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Old November 12th, 2015, 03:19 PM   #5
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Sorry to hear about this. Glad you're feeling alright. Won't hurt to get checked out by a doc if you can.

I've definitely had occasions like this, but with better luck. Unlike brake reservoirs, you can't quite see when your supply of luck is empty.
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Old November 12th, 2015, 03:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
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........... Just posting this so if others are in the habit of looking at cagers when they 'wrong you'... its just not worth it. Eyes up and forward allllll the time. Dont be an idiot like me. And if you are an idiot like me you better ATGATT.
Sorry to read about your accident, Robert.

I find your conclusion correct; however, protecting gear is the third, last and less effective line of defense in street riding.

Nothing compares to a good sustained riding strategy:

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=235374

Wish you and your bike a quick recovery.

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Old November 12th, 2015, 04:31 PM   #7
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That wasn't on the cafe racer was it?

If so, what a shame, it was a beautiful bike.
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Old November 12th, 2015, 06:23 PM   #8
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I have come close to rear ending alot of people as well. Now i ride with my foot on the foot brake whenever i feel traffic is getting cumbersome. Get better soon.
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Old November 13th, 2015, 09:02 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netdobeiras View Post
I have come close to rear ending alot of people as well. Now i ride with my foot on the foot brake whenever i feel traffic is getting cumbersome. Get better soon.
A better option is to practice good technique with the front brake and keep it covered while riding. The front brake is much more effective at stopping a bike in the shortest possible distance while maintaining control.
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Old November 13th, 2015, 09:58 AM   #10
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More on emergency braking:

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=149961

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=114555

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=134072

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Old November 13th, 2015, 11:15 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaFish View Post
That wasn't on the cafe racer was it?

If so, what a shame, it was a beautiful bike.
Unfortunately yeah I destroyed my project =/ right after I was done messin with it of course. Minor setback is all, I see it as a chance to refresh and do a different look.


I appreciate your recommendations on the skills. I practice emergency braking (i can lock my front wheel without too much effort, had stainless line and sintered pads) and try to utilize a scanning rhythm... but this time I interrupted the scan to stare down a cager.. and believe meeeee if I didnt manage to slow down at all id probably be in a hospital not typing this out comfortably.
I took my eyes off the road during a busy congestion time and the only thing that wouldve helped is paying attention to the road. If I had a full second more to react I wouldve been able to swerve or brake but there werent enough milliseconds.

Tough lesson learned but you all are right still. Even if my emergency braking is adequate it can be trained to be better. Same with my reactions.
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Old November 13th, 2015, 11:26 AM   #12
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I figured the Prius would have been totalled!
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Old November 13th, 2015, 11:35 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox View Post
Unfortunately yeah I destroyed my project =/ right after I was done messin with it of course. Minor setback is all, I see it as a chance to refresh and do a different look.


I appreciate your recommendations on the skills. I practice emergency braking (i can lock my front wheel without too much effort, had stainless line and sintered pads) and try to utilize a scanning rhythm... but this time I interrupted the scan to stare down a cager.. and believe meeeee if I didnt manage to slow down at all id probably be in a hospital not typing this out comfortably.
I took my eyes off the road during a busy congestion time and the only thing that wouldve helped is paying attention to the road. If I had a full second more to react I wouldve been able to swerve or brake but there werent enough milliseconds.

Tough lesson learned but you all are right still. Even if my emergency braking is adequate it can be trained to be better. Same with my reactions.
Not to be too picky, but anyone can lock their front wheel. It takes practice to be able to brake as hard as possible without locking the front wheel.
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Old November 13th, 2015, 11:36 AM   #14
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I figured the Prius would have been totalled!
There are reasons that their resale value is so strikingly high. It's not all MPG, clearly. (and none of it is looks, that's for sure )
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Old November 13th, 2015, 12:23 PM   #15
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I figured the Prius would have been totalled!
The Prius is an incredibly safe car.

Friend of mine was hauling a 64 mustang on a trailer down the freeway. Mustang fell off the trailer, crossed the medialn and hit a Prius head on. All 5 people in the Prius walked away from the accident.
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Old November 14th, 2015, 09:05 PM   #16
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How are you suppose to cover the front brake while riding? Stick a few fingers out? Im sure I am not going to release a few fingers. Foot brake is strong enough and keeping both hands on bars keeps better stability.
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Old November 14th, 2015, 09:51 PM   #17
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How are you suppose to cover the front brake while riding? Stick a few fingers out? Im sure I am not going to release a few fingers. Foot brake is strong enough and keeping both hands on bars keeps better stability.
Keeping index and middle fingers on the front brake's lever improves throttle control as well.
The practice can save as much as one second of reaction time; which means stopping 117 feet shorter when moving at 80 mph or 44 feet shorter when traveling at 30 mph.

The hardest part is to control the survival reaction of suddenly pulling the lever during panic reactions.
You should progressively squeeze that lever with determination (the bike will not flip over).
Firmly but not slowly, just gradually and smoothly.
The above is not a natural reaction, reason for which it requires much practice.

Avoid hanging from the handle bar; clip the fuel tank with your knees and keep your arms relaxed instead.
The handles should be treated as hand rests rather than hand grips.
Effective counter-steering only requires pushing forward with the base of your hands; your fingers should be relaxed and free to play with the clutch and brake levers.
The steering should have some degree of freedom, so the bike can auto-correct any deviation induced by road imperfections.

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Old November 15th, 2015, 03:02 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netdobeiras View Post
How are you suppose to cover the front brake while riding? Stick a few fingers out? Im sure I am not going to release a few fingers. Foot brake is strong enough and keeping both hands on bars keeps better stability.
Foot brake will quickly lock the rear wheel causing instability. When I first transitioned from my scooter to the ninjette I would use my rear brake in every situation but now it stays relatively unused.

P.S. my Ninjette has risen from the ashes! Will post pics of old and new frame tomorrow
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Old November 15th, 2015, 08:17 AM   #19
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Quote:
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Foot brake will quickly lock the rear wheel causing instability. When I first transitioned from my scooter to the ninjette I would use my rear brake in every situation but now it stays relatively unused.

P.S. my Ninjette has risen from the ashes! Will post pics of old and new frame tomorrow
It will if you stamp on it.

Use both, it takes a bit of finesse to use the rear well, but it's a good chunk of stopping power especially on a bike with only one disc up front.

If it's not used much it'll be a bit 'bitey' until it's properly bedded in & the surfaces are clean, after that it's pretty predictable.
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Old November 15th, 2015, 09:40 AM   #20
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glad your ok. looking forward to the pics.
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Old November 15th, 2015, 10:10 AM   #21
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@Fox, Very sorry to hear about your collision but I'm glad you weren't seriously hurt. Thank you for sharing your experience so that ohters can learn from it.
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Old November 15th, 2015, 04:24 PM   #22
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Can't use the finger trick. My fingers are too short. my two fingers only reach the brake lever if my throttle is fully released. I tried doing that trick on a small turn and almost fell off. I know it might be wrong but i brake and accelerate at the same time to keep steady speed in tight traffic because if i let go of the throttle the engine harshly stops the bike. I think i'll stick to foot braking. I have never locked my wheels on the ninja.
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Old November 15th, 2015, 04:59 PM   #23
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Get adjustable levers so that you can properly fit your controls. The dexterity of your fingers is far better than the dexterity of your foot. That and the fact that weight transfer makes it harder to lock up the front brake and easier to lock up the rear.
But, after hearing your comments, I highly suggest that you take the Motorcycle Safety Foundation course as soon as possible. There may be some fundamental things concerning motorcycle handling dynamics that you may need some help with. IMO, these things are better demonstrated than discussed on the net.
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Old November 15th, 2015, 05:01 PM   #24
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A Prius?
You will likely be charged with battery

You are right about defensive riding. Always deal with what cagers actually do not what they should do.
Attacks of self righteousness introduce an extra and distracting dynamic. Just treat them as a video game hazzard and ride past it. You know that now of course.
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Old November 15th, 2015, 05:10 PM   #25
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A Prius?
You will likely be charged with battery
Literally just spit pringles everywhere.
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Old November 15th, 2015, 07:01 PM   #26
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Any good suggestions for adjustable brake levers? Never had close calls on a motorcycle to consider getting brake levers or changing my riding style
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Old November 15th, 2015, 07:39 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by netdobeiras View Post
Can't use the finger trick. My fingers are too short. my two fingers only reach the brake lever if my throttle is fully released. I tried doing that trick on a small turn and almost fell off. I know it might be wrong but i brake and accelerate at the same time to keep steady speed in tight traffic because if i let go of the throttle the engine harshly stops the bike. I think i'll stick to foot braking. I have never locked my wheels on the ninja.
I could be wrong but you might want to take a rider's safety course.
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Old November 16th, 2015, 07:51 AM   #28
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Always look 2-3 vehicles ahead.

Grabbing a handful of brake is always the last resort in effort to avoid impact, always look for ways around the obstacle before you use the brakes... if you don't have time to look and evade, you are following too close or traveling too fast.

Brakes limit your options, reduce the amount of control you have on the bike and can induce tunnel vision on the obstacle that you are trying to avoid.
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Old November 17th, 2015, 10:46 AM   #29
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Brakes limit your options, reduce the amount of control you have on the bike and can induce tunnel vision on the obstacle that you are trying to avoid.
I'd argue that vision and braking are separate skills. If you're tunneling, you have problems that can be corrected without any reference to the brake, throttle, or any other control.
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Old November 17th, 2015, 10:48 AM   #30
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I keep reading the thread title as "rear ended in paris". bhahahahahhaha


/sorry carry on
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Old November 17th, 2015, 07:08 PM   #31
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Thanks for sharing! Unfortunately I turn back to wave my fist at cars all the time.

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Old November 17th, 2015, 07:08 PM   #32
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I keep reading the thread title as "rear ended in paris". bhahahahahhaha


/sorry carry on
Hahaha
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Old November 25th, 2015, 05:49 AM   #33
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I'd argue that vision and braking are separate skills. If you're tunneling, you have problems that can be corrected without any reference to the brake, throttle, or any other control.
Avoiding obstacles is one skill that combine many elements, vision and braking included; but without vision, you can have all the best brake, throttle and any other controls still useless if you don't know when to use any them after you see the obstacle to avoid impact.
Key is what you are looking at, the obstacle you're trying to avoid or a way out of impact, when many options are not so intuitive.
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Old November 25th, 2015, 01:09 PM   #34
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Here are a couple ratbike pics for your viewing pleasure. Also frame pics haha (Well thereeessssss your problemmmmm)


GOt lucky as hell and found a frame locally for 5 bucks. Then Installed a honda elite 80cc gas tank i had layin around since mine sprouted a leak. A whopping 1 gallon capacity makes me appreciate the massive 4.9 that were spoiled with. Other than that i just had to replace the throttle cables since one got crushed and the brake fluid reservior and line. I miss my stainless line :/


But i just bought a green tank off a guy in LA last night. Gonna install that later and transform into the hulk 125 bucks to get back on the road isnt to shabbbyyyyyy
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Old December 1st, 2015, 02:22 AM   #35
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Don't worry about that broken weld, you still have the 2 other parts of the frame to hold you upit will just make the engine a further stressed member of the frame! Just kidding glad you are not hurt bad and already getting her back together!
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Old December 1st, 2015, 12:18 PM   #36
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Yeah just bend it back with a couple of dabs of epoxy and spray it, most of a weld's strength is in the paint anyway.
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Old December 4th, 2015, 07:15 AM   #37
QuickSiR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
Keeping index and middle fingers on the front brake's lever improves throttle control as well.
The practice can save as much as one second of reaction time; which means stopping 117 feet shorter when moving at 80 mph or 44 feet shorter when traveling at 30 mph.

The hardest part is to control the survival reaction of suddenly pulling the lever during panic reactions.
You should progressively squeeze that lever with determination (the bike will not flip over).
Firmly but not slowly, just gradually and smoothly.
The above is not a natural reaction, reason for which it requires much practice.

Avoid hanging from the handle bar; clip the fuel tank with your knees and keep your arms relaxed instead.
The handles should be treated as hand rests rather than hand grips.
Effective counter-steering only requires pushing forward with the base of your hands; your fingers should be relaxed and free to play with the clutch and brake levers.
The steering should have some degree of freedom, so the bike can auto-correct any deviation induced by road imperfections.

Never liked that. As soon as I start applying the front brakes I squeeze my other two fingers. How can you guys apply any kind of significant braking pressure?

My riding instructor adviced against it as well saying he saw many people break fingers in emergency situations.
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Old December 4th, 2015, 08:23 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by QuickSiR View Post
Never liked that. As soon as I start applying the front brakes I squeeze my other two fingers. How can you guys apply any kind of significant braking pressure?

My riding instructor adviced against it as well saying he saw many people break fingers in emergency situations.
Finger independence is a developed skill, and I would venture the amount of development required is a very personal thing. I think of it like playing guitar and controlling the pressure of individual digits. Applying pressure is the same deal; develop finger strength. The calipers are doing the real work. You don't need to be Popeye to apply as much braking force as you'll ever be able to use. Broken and amputated fingers do happen, but I'm inclined to suggest that if you reach that point you're already panicking or crashing.

In any case, squeezing my fingers on my throttle hand doesn't equate to twisting the throttle. The force isn't applied in the same direction. Crude MS Paint drawing:


*Note: I'm not a two or one finger braker. I'm far more likely to throw all 4 over the lever most of the time. Vaguely like a far-less-skilled Rossi (but far less petulant and unlikely to run you off the road for daring to compete with me). Clicking the image will take you to the youtube video these shots are from, complete with Kevin Schwantz narration:


I'll hunt around when I have time, but there's an interesting Dave Moss (suspension dude) video or article where he talks about using individual fingers for varying levels of control, given the differing amount of leverage each has on the brake lever.
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Old December 4th, 2015, 09:15 AM   #39
QuickSiR
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But when you press the brake with your two fingers. What happens to your fingers that are under the lever? In my case. They get crushed by the lever.

1- It hurts
2- I can't apply more pressure in case of an emergency situation because my fingers under the lever are in the way of me being able to apply more pressure on the brakes.
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Old December 4th, 2015, 09:30 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by QuickSiR View Post
But when you press the brake with your two fingers. What happens to your fingers that are under the lever? In my case. They get crushed by the lever.

1- It hurts
2- I can't apply more pressure in case of an emergency situation because my fingers under the lever are in the way of me being able to apply more pressure on the brakes.
I don't recall if the stock levers on a Ninjette are adjustable, but what you're describing is an issue with the length of pull. Adjust the levers, or replace them if you have to. They shouldn't be pulling all the way to the bar. It's not a technique problem.
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