Oil Contamination - Why the Break in Procedure is so Important

[tubarney]

2010 Ninja 250r purchased second hand with 1200 miles, 13 months ago. The bike was never serviced and I'm pretty sure the oil was never changed.

I changed oil twice in a week when I bought it. After that I have changed it every 1200 miles. It now has 6000 miles.

You can see the oil in the bottom of the case. It is clean.

The bike was running perfectly before I pulled it apart.

This is what I find when I remove the transmission output shaft. This side gets no fresh oil from the journal. Compare this with the other side that does. I have found the same thing on several main bearings.

These main bearings are stuffed and need replacing.

If you are in the same position as me I recommend you pull it apart before your engine blows up.

[Racer x]

Changing oil is critical to the life of the engine. Some new cars are advertised as 15000 mile between oil service. It's a joke. Just a sales tactic.
Oil absorbed water and metal parts rust or corrode . That rust falls into the oil. Acid formes when the engine is running. After the engine reaches temp and boils out the moisture. Fuel and carbon are forced past the rings. Further contaminating the oil. And sludge forms on all the parts that don't move. This sludge collects more oil. That oil does not drain back fast enough and it sits there and boils black collecting oil and dropping crud into the engine.

Oil in a car 5 to 8 Qt should be changed every 3-5 thousand miles the ninja should be changed at least every 3000.
The first oil change is ment to remove all the metal bits from break in . You can see the results of not changing it. And changing it to soon is not good. 600 miles then go to synthetic.

[Motofool]

Very sorry to see that, Brad.

It is not only lubrication what matters.

Consider that proper cooling and warming-up are as important as clean, viscous and abundant lubrication.

Bearings and sliding parts that over-heat expand themselves and reduce the necessary gap to keep a continuous film of lubricant between their surfaces at all times.

On the other hand, too cold operation (like starting up or forcing the engine when cold or just doing short trips) has the opposite effect, destroying the film of oil as well.

The number of start-ups per total miles is also key in the longevity of bearings: there is zero lubricant film between parts during the first seconds of each start up, which invariably produces some damage to the surfaces.

Last but not least important is the smoothness of operation.
Explosive accelerations from traffic lights and nervous throttle operation are costly.
Sudden accelerations and deceleration of parts respect to their counter-parts generate much higher loads on bearings than constant high rpms'.
Same applies for improper or lazy use of the gear box, forcing the engine to low-rpm-high-load conditions, like climbing a hill in higher gears.

As for lubrication, we want clean oil flowing to the parts. Microscopic particles of carbon can easily by-pass cheap oil filter elements and, being very hard, create physical erosion on the surface of the bearings. Acids and water will generate corrosion on metal surfaces during times of non-operation.

As for chemical properties of the lubricant (after engine's break-in only):

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Why_Synthetic_Oil%3F

"Synthetic oils have better resistance to thermal breakdown than petroleum-based oils, which is important in small-displacement, high-revving engines like ours; synths work almost as well under high heat as when relatively cool, while fossil oils can thin out unacceptably.
Synthetic oil has better residual properties; it clings to engine components better than fossil oils (more cohesive), which means cold clutch plates are less likely to stick. Synth oils get to cold engine parts faster than fossil oils, which means less damage at startup. And because of the better synth cohesive properties, those components that don't get fully lubricated during the first few seconds after startup (while pressure is established) will suffer less frictional wear. Synthetic oils also maintain their viscosity more effectively over time, and under different engine loads. Ultimately, synthetic oils just lubricate better."

[contact148]

well some cars are ok to run 15000KM between oil changes

I have 2 mercedes benz and from new has been 15K oil changes

of course thats with fleece oil filters and mobil one 0-40w full synthetic oil these cars also have an 7L (ish) sump

this is the factory (and cars computer) recomended change interval

I ALLWAYS follow the manufactures service intervals

I will be doing that with my brand new ninja as well

the problem with buying used is people are stupid and dont bother with oil changes and other service UNTILL the car/bike wont work

[tubarney]

These bikes have a required 600 miles oil change and break in period which was not followed on this one.

I am trying to stop someone in the future from buying a motorcycle in the same condition. It was not so important for me as I was planning on doing major engine work to it when I bought it.

[nickjpass]

But how can you tell if someone has changed it? If they didn't and said they did it themselves, they could be lieing.

[mgentz]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

But how can you tell if someone has changed it? If they didn't and said they did it themselves, they could be lieing.

you cannot really tell. you buy to buy from a reputable person or dealer.

My bike was purchased with 2600 miles on it and the bearings looked spotless. just luck sometimes.

[nickjpass]

But dealers can be dirty too lol

[mgentz]

Yep...and I know plenty

[nickjpass]

I know one nice dealer. He's an old honest man.

[jconolty]

oh its also good to run non-synthetic or high zinc oil for break in. many big name manufacturers make a break-in specific oil

[mgentz]

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...ont%2fbrk.aspx

could use this.

[SafetyPaws]

Originally Posted by Racer x

The first oil change is ment to remove all the metal bits from break in . You can see the results of not changing it. And changing it to soon is not good. 600 miles then go to synthetic.

Does that last part of changing too soon meant too soon before 600 or between 600 and the next oil change? After my break in oil change at 600, i changed it every 600 miles unitl about 1800 miles. Before the local shop was like didnt i just sell you oil and a filter like a month ago? whoops, he said do it every 3000 miles - i misread that manual -and misread it many times i guess lol.

[NathanUc]

Originally Posted by SafetyPaws

Does that last part of changing too soon meant too soon before 600 or between 600 and the next oil change? After my break in oil change at 600, i changed it every 600 miles unitl about 1800 miles. Before the local shop was like didnt i just sell you oil and a filter like a month ago? whoops, he said do it every 3000 miles - i misread that manual -and misread it many times i guess lol.

I'm in no way an expert like Racer X but I believe he means this:
The first oil change is important because within the first 600 miles, 90% of your break in should be finished. You change the oil to remove the metal shavings. After that, you want to keep conventional oil for the next 1,000~2,000 miles so that the rest of your break in (the other 10%) can finish and allow everything to properly seal.

Because I bought a brand new zx6r, I've been trying to do a lot of research on best methods for break in and such. Here is what I plan to do:
0miles - change factory (synth) oil to Royal Purple Break-In oil.
50~100miles - depend on when I finish the motoman break in (between 50 and 100), I'm going to change the oil and add fresh Royal Purple Break-In oil.
1,500 miles - Change oil and replace with full synth oil (I prefer Royal Purple 10w-40 as it worked very well in my 250).

It's expensive and potentially SLIGHTLY wasteful, but I'm truly hoping this method proves effective... just really scared about trying to do a hard break-in with a 636 on fresh tires....................................

[tubarney]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

But how can you tell if someone has changed it? If they didn't and said they did it themselves, they could be lieing.

Don't buy it unless they have receipts for the work done. I would want an actual mechanic receipt showing a first service. (Its a brand new f***ing bike, stop being a cheap c***, not to mention voiding warranty). Then I would ring the mechanic to double check.

Now after that drain the oil before you buy it. If it dirty then don't buy it. you loose $20 for fresh oil, not $2000 for a new motor.

If the seller is honest, he or she will let you do all of these things.

You change your oil during break-in because as things "break-in" they wear away in the form of metal shavings.

You can change your oil as much as you want during the break-in. The more the better period. You can't change it too much.

[sLick415]

So I went to check out a 2012 with 1300 miles for my buddy. Bike runs perfect. Hell, it runs better than my 08. Only problem is, guy never had it serviced and the oil was overfilled. What do you guys think? How likely will the transmission get clogged up like OP?

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by tubarney

Don't buy it unless they have receipts for the work done. I would want an actual mechanic receipt showing a first service. (Its a brand new f***ing bike, stop being a cheap c***, not to mention voiding warranty). Then I would ring the mechanic to double check.

Or dont be such a pu$$* and do it your self the right way. Also read up on how a warranty works they can't void it in less they can prove that the lack of work lead to the failure.

[modded]

Just bought a 2012 250 with 2k miles on it with no oil change so far. Should I use full synthetic now or wait until 3k miles like said above?