Track Day Question

[Fatherof2]

Hi Gang,

First post here.

I just picked up a 2007 250R that I would like to use on the track. As you know, tire choices are limited. That said, if I pick up a set of Shinko's, will that work for a new track rider? I don't intend to try to drag my elbows. I just want to have fun and learn. However, I would also like to be able to safely experience some degree of lean angle and perhaps a little bit of semi aggressive riding. Thoughts?

Thanks for any input!

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Fatherof2

Hi Gang,

First post here.

I just picked up a 2007 250R that I would like to use on the track. As you know, tire choices are limited. That said, if I pick up a set of Shinko's, will that work for a new track rider? I don't intend to try to drag my elbows. I just want to have fun and learn. However, I would also like to be able to safely experience some degree of lean angle and perhaps a little bit of semi aggressive riding. Thoughts?

Thanks for any input!

Shinkos are far from ideal. For a first-time rider they'll be okay, but trust me: You'll want to do more days. You're going to find the limits of those tires very quickly.

We're all different but I will tell you this: At my first track day the chicken strips on my rear tire were all but gone, and I'm not that fast. You might surprise yourself.

Been awhile since I was focused on Ninjettes, but I believe that Pirelli Sport Demons are still available in your size. Better tire IMO.

Also... when you go, talk to the tire guy about pressures. You want to run lower pressures on the track (30F 30R is a good rule of thumb).

Are you the guy who posted on the TTD Facebook group?

[Fatherof2]

Thanks for your input.

Are there better tire options?

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Fatherof2

Thanks for your input.

Are there better tire options?

Post above edited before I saw this. I favor Pirelli, myself.

[Fatherof2]

Small world!

Yes, I am the guy that posted on TTD. Based on Ken's comment I decided I need to hunt down new tires. Unfortunately, I can't find the Sport Demon tires. In addition, the Sport Demons only seem to come in the Sport Demon Scooter variety. I don't know if that makes a difference.

Thank you for your responses.

[adouglas]

Let me see what I can dig up.

If you happen to sign up for a day when I'll be there you're more than welcome to hang out. I always rent a garage bay and if there's space available you can set up there. I love introducing new riders to the sport.

[Fatherof2]

I really appreciate that!

I would love to take you up on that. I have no idea of what I am doing when it comes to the paved track.

Thanks again.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Fatherof2

I really appreciate that!

I would love to take you up on that. I have no idea of what I am doing when it comes to the paved track.

Thanks again.

I'll be at Palmer July 5-6, probably one of the two weekend days at the end of July, and all three days of the Labor Day weekend.

Message me at Facebook if you like. I'm there all the time, here not so much.

[Fatherof2]

Will do...........thanks again Andrew.

[adouglas]

Wow, it looks like everyone's out of stock on tires.

Didn't you say in the TTD group that your tires are only a few years old with low mileage? They ought to be okay if so. First-time pace is more like a spirited road ride than anything else.

Tires that are really old and hard are what you want to avoid. A tire more than 5 years old may still be okay, or maybe not (look for the date code on the tire to see how old it is... the code is a four-digit number, usually stamped in an oval outline. The first two digits are the week of manufacture, and the second two are the year, e.g. 2419 means the 24th week of 2019).

A tire that's gotten rock-hard from exposure to UV light and ozone won't serve you well. A tire that's excessively worn or squared off is done no matter how fresh it is. A cracked tire should be replaced immediately.

Re scooter tires... it's just a label. The thing to pay attention to is the speed rating of the tire. Scooter tires are typically S-rated, which means they're not designed for prolonged high speed use. Do some Googling on "tire speed rating" for more info.

If you really must get new rubber, Shinkos won't blow up or anything like that. It's just that other brands make better tires. I've never used Shinkos myself but I've never heard anything particularly good about them.

The pregen Ninjette is a nifty little bike but tire availability really is the limiting factor. The industry went to 17-inch wheels a long time ago.

[adouglas]

By the way... you can start prepping for the track ahead of time.

The secret to having fun on the 250 is that the party starts at 9,000 rpm. The engine can handle it easily, so don't be afraid of high revs. The motor is capable of singing along at 12k all day long for years and years.

So as you ride around doing your normal routine, think about keeping the revs up. You won't break the bike.

Also... watch on-board videos of the track you'll be visiting. Use those videos as instructional tools. You can pick up a ton about the line and reference points from watching these.

Here's me at Palmer, running the "normal" counterclockwise direction. I had bumped down to yellow group, which is why I was passing so many people. It's a reasonable representation of the line. There are many many videos out there like this.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Fatherof2]

The tires on the bike are Sport Demons, but they were made in 2015.

No dry rot, very few miles.

Would new Shinkos be better than old/new Sport Demons?

Maybe I bought the wrong bike. I got it for short money. Carbs were dirty. I will have the carbs in the ultra-sonic cleaner soon. Maybe I should get it running and sell it.

[Fatherof2]

Great video!

Looks like a blast!

I feel pretty sure that I would love doing some track days. Just gotta get my bike and gear sorted out.

By the way Andrew, what do you think of this. Boots, gloves and back protector are included for a few bucks more.

https://boston.craigslist.org/sob/mp...494318113.html

[adouglas]

That gear is exactly what you need.

Re "wrong bike...."

Really depends on your plans and expectations. Tires are definitely the limiting factor here simply because of availability. After that, it's suspension and brakes. As your pace increases those start to matter a lot.

This bike will do fine in red group and even into the lower end of yellow group, but if you're going to stick with this (as noted above, you'll want to), then something a bit more current will make your life easier. Something like an RC390, CBR300, Ninja 300/400. All are similar to the 250 but with a bit more power (nothing crazy) and better parts availability. Moving up from there, the SV650 is the go-to recreational track bike... spares forever, lots of development, nice blend of power and torque. Built SVs compete with my Aprilia in MotoAmerica.

If I were in your shoes I'd ride it for now, learn some things and use that knowledge to decide what the right bike for you really is. I'm assuming that since you intentionally bought a 250 to take to the track you're not the stereotypical "A 600 super sport is a beginner bike" guy who lusts after horsepower. Little bikes are way cool and will teach you a ton.

Re tires....
Are the tires hard, like hockey pucks, especially at the edges? That's what happens when they age. They vulcanize. You won't crash on them but you'll find the limits of grip sooner rather than later. If they're still reasonably soft, they're good to go.

If you're set on replacing them, I found some tires for you and the links below show them in stock. The Bridgestone Battlax BT46 is, according to the manufacturer, the successor to the BT45 and that's a known-good tire (do some searching here on Ninjette). Or just go with the Shinkos. They'll be okay.

If you're up for taking your carbs out and dunking 'em in an ultrasonic cleaner, I assume you're mechanically adept and can change tires yourself.

https://www.amazon.com/Bridgestone-P...302240&sr=8-18

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/t...orcycle-tire-p

[adouglas]

BTW, I saw in one of your FB posts that you describe yourself as an "old, slow newbie."

For reference, I'm 63 and did my first track day at age 55. I call myself old & slow and compared to many I am, but I'm fast enough to run in blue group and am having a blast with this super-addictive sport.

[Fatherof2]

Thanks for the info Andrew.

I will closely inspect the tires. When I saw the date, I just kind of wrote them off. If they are bad, I will grab a set from the link you provided. Thanks for that.

I will see if I can grab that gear this weekend. The guy was super nice, just hard to find the time to drive to the south shore.

I did intentionally go after a 250. I am 57 and not trying to kid myself.

I have no problem rebuilding carbs or mounting and balancing tires. I enjoy wrenching.

Thanks again Andrew,

David

[adouglas]

Sent you an email with contact info via the forum.

Do pursue that gear if you can. it's a great deal and won't be on the market long.

If you get stuck, TTD is pretty loose about gear requirements in the lower groups. Full details are on the rider prep page at the TTD website. If you happen to be going to an event I'm attending and get caught short, I've got a spare suit in that size you can use.

[adouglas]

I'm a highly risk-aware person by nature. I have no illusions about my abilities either.

The day I sold my Ninjette to a guy who was going to turn it into a track bike, I told him "not me... I don't see myself as a track monkey."

HA! That was in 2013. I did my first track day in 2014 and I've never looked back.

I stayed in red, and then yellow, group by choice until Tony kicked me out and told me to go ride in blue.

I'm a TTD loyalist because the clientele is level-headed and responsible as a rule, unlike some other groups I've ridden with. The whole organization is geared towards safety and learning. A great bunch of folks.

[backinthesaddleagain]

I pretty much thumbs upped all of Andrew’s posts. Welcome the the party.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by Fatherof2

Small world!

Yes, I am the guy that posted on TTD. Based on Ken's comment I decided I need to hunt down new tires. Unfortunately, I can't find the Sport Demon tires. In addition, the Sport Demons only seem to come in the Sport Demon Scooter variety. I don't know if that makes a difference.

Thank you for your responses.

The Pirelli sport demon 16” tires for the 250R is indeed the scooter tire. I ran these tires on a 250 when I first got into track days and liked them for the price and the grip was good compared to the other tires I used on the bike at the time.

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by Fatherof2

The tires on the bike are Sport Demons, but they were made in 2015.

No dry rot, very few miles.

Would new Shinkos be better than old/new Sport Demons?

Maybe I bought the wrong bike. I got it for short money. Carbs were dirty. I will have the carbs in the ultra-sonic cleaner soon. Maybe I should get it running and sell it.

Ninja 250's one of best bikes to learn on track! Lightweight and nimble, teaches you very quickly! I had reached plateau with my previous CBR600RR and picked up 250 for racing. I ended breaking through my previous limits and got so much faster with it!

Having actually used all these tyres mentioned, I really do prefer Shinko SR740/741 for Ninjette over Sport Demons. Much newer and better technology & rubber compounds. Personally, I prefer to stick with factory 80-series sizes, bike feels really slow handling and numb with taller 90-series tyres.

Realistically for your 1st 2-yrs on track, tyres won't make that much different as you'll be learning and won't be anywhere close to limits of any tyre. Off the shelf street tyres now are way better than all-out race tyres from couple decades ago when these bikes 1st came out.

Here I am at Laguna Seca on Ninja 250 with Shinko tyres. A little too gung-ho on 1st lap with cold-tyres, but very forgiving set-up.

Link to original page on YouTube.

After morning warm-up, I usually go out in fastest A-group for afternoon. Skip ahead to 6:00 for back & forth action with my buddy Steve on Ninja 300. He usually races 600 Superbike class but rented quieter bike due to noise regulations. He mentioned it was scary how much faster little bikes can go around corners with extreme lean angles.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[petrolhead]

Originally Posted by Fatherof2

Hi Gang,

First post here.

I just picked up a 2007 250R that I would like to use on the track. As you know, tire choices are limited. That said, if I pick up a set of Shinko's, will that work for a new track rider? I don't intend to try to drag my elbows. I just want to have fun and learn. However, I would also like to be able to safely experience some degree of lean angle and perhaps a little bit of semi aggressive riding. Thoughts?

Thanks for any input!

If you've never ridden on track, the street tyres you're on now, will be absolutely fine. Make sure you have a pressure meter you can trust (not a given with meters) and make sure you warm the tyres before trying heroics.

Street tires WILL NOT go out from under you. You will not have a low side crash. Normal tyres are much more capable than 99,9% of track beginners. And no, none of us is the 0,1% exception. I say warm them, ride them until you're clearly unsatisfied with their instability . You might get surprisingly lot of use out of them.

[Fatherof2]

Thanks for all the great feedback guys!

Im getting excited.

Getting the Ninja back together now.

Found a suit, gloves and back protector on Ebay. Just need boots now.

[petrolhead]

Originally Posted by Fatherof2

Thanks for all the great feedback guys!

Im getting excited.

Getting the Ninja back together now.

Found a suit, gloves and back protector on Ebay. Just need boots now.

No problem. Between my first track outing in 2019 and my last in 2021 (ex CBR 650R), my laptime improved 45 seconds. On a track that I'd driven diffrent cars for more than 100 laps before bike.
My personal best is on Youtube but I'm not proud of even that anymore.

BR, another father of 2.

[DannoXYZ]

ah.... the early days. so much fun!
I did 46-days @ track my 1st season (includes 7 race weekends).
chopped off 30-sec from my lap-times
used single set of BT-45 tyres that came on bike entire season
next season after that I used Shinkos
then next season, Alpha-13-SP (MotoAM take offs)
then Q3+
I might be ready for slicks next season.

[oldnewninjarider]

Originally Posted by DannoXYZ

Ninja 250's one of best bikes to learn on track! Lightweight and nimble, teaches you very quickly! I had reached plateau with my previous CBR600RR and picked up 250 for racing. I ended breaking through my previous limits and got so much faster with it!

Having actually used all these tyres mentioned, I really do prefer Shinko SR740/741 for Ninjette over Sport Demons. Much newer and better technology & rubber compounds. Personally, I prefer to stick with factory 80-series sizes, bike feels really slow handling and numb with taller 90-series tyres.

Realistically for your 1st 2-yrs on track, tyres won't make that much different as you'll be learning and won't be anywhere close to limits of any tyre. Off the shelf street tyres now are way better than all-out race tyres from couple decades ago when these bikes 1st came out.

Here I am at Laguna Seca on Ninja 250 with Shinko tyres. A little too gung-ho on 1st lap with cold-tyres, but very forgiving set-up.

Link to original page on YouTube.

After morning warm-up, I usually go out in fastest A-group for afternoon. Skip ahead to 6:00 for back & forth action with my buddy Steve on Ninja 300. He usually races 600 Superbike class but rented quieter bike due to noise regulations. He mentioned it was scary how much faster little bikes can go around corners with extreme lean angles.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Why do you suppose other reviews for the Shinko 740s are so mixed?