The reality of name brands

[adouglas]

Today I got a promo email from Cycle Gear. In it, they've got a Dainese perforated jacket for what looks like a great price (given that it's a Dainese): $300.

So I looked into it... and I call BS.

First, a bit of background. Years ago I worked for a NY regional sporting goods chain called Herman's World of Sporting Goods. Think Sports Authority and you've got the idea.

This sleazeball outfit would do deals with big name brand manufacturers to release "exclusive" products that could be bought only at Herman's. You could buy "genuine" Rossignol skis that looked almost (but not quite) identical to the top of the line for much less than the premium product.

But there was a catch: The actual skis weren't that good. They just had the name and lookalike graphics. It was PURELY a marketing ploy, and it worked like a charm.

I'd bet my left carburetor that that's exactly what's happening here. The jacket in question has the Dainese brand, but it's a Cycle Gear "exclusive." It's called the Mugello STR, which does not exist in the current Dainese catalog. The description says that it's "based on the Laguna Seca Jacket" which might mean anything... it could just mean that it's got the logos in the same place or that the graphics are similar.

Cycle Gear did a deal with Dainese to use the brand name. That does not make it a real Dainese product. CG could just as easily farm it out to the same factory that makes their house brands, Sedici and Bilt... and there's at least a fair chance that's exactly what they do. I seriously doubt that Dainese itself has anything to do with this jacket. They might have signed off on appropriate use of the brand and inspected a test sample, but this is a Cycle Gear product through and through.

Do I know this for a fact? No. I only know that similar stunts have been pulled in the past that I did know about. I also know that you will not find this jacket in the Dainese catalog.

Next time you go to a CG store, find one and check where it's made. Then compare that label to a real-deal Dainese product. I'll bet they're different.

Think about this from Dainese's point of view. Which makes more sense: Do a marketing deal and make money without incurring any manufacturing costs, or ramp up production for a limited-availability low-margin product sold through only one retail channel? I know which I'd choose.

For those who are impressed by brand, this is something to think about. The label only takes you so far. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

[Jiggles]

I never see Dainese at the BiLT store, it is the BiLT store after all

[adouglas]

From the Cycle Gear (aka "BiLT store") website:

About The Brand

DAINESE

Cycle Gear is proud to be America's Largest Retailer of Dainese Motorcycle Apparel.

[subxero]

There is a cycle gear literally across the road from where i live and i have never seen dainese knock off stuff. I'm sure it could exist but somewhere in the fine print there has to be an accurate description of what it actually is. I was in there the other day and i saw one of their lower line perforated leather jackets for like $400. Looked like a nice jacket for the price.

A good example i can think of is really cheap guitars. These $50 guitars put "Gibson" really big all over the box. But if you just read the back of the box it says something like "supported by Gibson guitars" No where does it actually say it is a Gibson and anyone who thinks they could get one for $50 is clearly not so bright.

It's really a ploy for gift givers, they might have heard the Gibson name so slapping it on a box makes it seem familiar to them and makes them more comfortable buying it as a gift as they think they are doing a good job.

[adouglas]

Not saying these are ripoff products. I'm saying it's a name licensing thing. That's different.

Licensing a name doesn't mean the owner of that name is actually involved beyond signing the contract.

Do you really think Harley Davidson actually makes all the stuff that carries the HD logo?

Here's a simple test: Call Dainese customer service, tell them you've got a Dainese Mugello STR jacket and you've got an issue. See what their response is.

Re quality... this is really my point. Name does not automatically equate to quality, or lack thereof. I currently wear a Frank Thomas XTI jacket that is quite nice. Good details and features, good workmanship. I have zero complaints and I've seen name-brand gear that isn't as nice. For example, it's got better zippers on it than my AGV Sport pants.

For those who don't remember, Frank Thomas was the Cycle Gear "premium" house brand before Sedici. Yet, simply because it's CG, people tend to dismiss it as inferior.

I'm not saying this Dainese jacket is a poor product. What I am saying is that it's Dainese in name only.

[bfpower]

That method is extremely common, from Home Depot's appliance department to Dick's golf section (both of which I went for, and got decent but not premium products). I wouldn't be surprised, especially if it's not a closeout item.

From the other perspective... it may not be the same caliber as the top of the line Dainese, but chances are it's going to be better than some of the other stuff out there.

But if I wanted to spend $400 on a jacket I'd probably get something from alpinestars or revit.

[fry1024]

Originally Posted by adouglas

...
Cycle Gear did a deal with Dainese to use the brand name. That does not make it a real Dainese product. CG could just as easily farm it out to the same factory that makes their house brands, Sedici and Bilt... and there's at least a fair chance that's exactly what they do. I seriously doubt that Dainese itself has anything to do with this jacket. They might have signed off on appropriate use of the brand and inspected a test sample, but this is a Cycle Gear product through and through.
...

This type of stuff happens all the time in retail, BestBuy, WalMart, Dicks. If it's a store exclusive of a top name brand more than likely it a re-branded house brand.

Good catch

[Alex]

The grocery business is funny that way as well, with the branded / generic items. I've been in factories of large food producers, and seen the exact same product being put into very different containers. I.E. pasta sauce going into the high-end branded bottles, and into the house-brand generic. Same with french fries, salad dressing, and almost every other grocery item. That doesn't mean that every bit of generic foodstuff is actually the same quality of other brands. But in many cases, the differences that people believe they are paying for are non-existent.

[choneofakind]

Another odd tidbit to remember is "price-matching".

We ran into this when looking for a new washer and drier. At the time, Lowe's (for example) offered to price-match with free delivery on any washer/drier combo that could be found at a better price elsewhere. However, Lowe's deals with the Manufacturers so that the models of washer/driers are not found anywhere else. You want to bring in an ad from another store to get a price-match? The first thing the sales associate does is check the model number. There's 1 character that's different, but they're clearly identical units; same look, same specs, different model number.

Business can be sneaky sometimes.

Then again we found that our local grocery store's house brand of ice cream is actually Ruggle's brand, which is quite good. So we get the same ice cream for about 2/3 the price, and it goes on sale much more frequently.

[CynicalC]

So you know enough about brand licensing that this shouldn't be a surprise to you, but somehow it is?

[adouglas]

Who (besides you) said anything about being surprised? I'm not surprised at all.

And yeah, I do know a little bit about about brands and marketing. I've been in the business since 1995. Marketing and branding pays my mortgage.

[Daks]

Oh, this becomes obvious. A cheap pair of A*s gloves are just cheap gloves.

Same with this type of thing.


It's like the black friday "deals". I worked in retail and manufacturers would make specific models for black friday to sell cheaply. Low and behold, a year later we were getting tons of them back for service and replacement.

Sometimes that 200 dollar flatscreen is only worth 200 dollars.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Daks

Sometimes that 200 dollar flatscreen is only worth 200 dollars.

But sometimes its worth $400

[Jiggles]

Hate the player not the game Daks

[hirubhaiambani]

Originally Posted by Alex

The grocery business is funny that way as well, with the branded / generic items. I've been in factories of large food producers, and seen the exact same product being put into very different containers. I.E. pasta sauce going into the high-end branded bottles, and into the house-brand generic. Same with french fries, salad dressing, and almost every other grocery item. That doesn't mean that every bit of generic foodstuff is actually the same quality of other brands. But in many cases, the differences that people believe they are paying for are non-existent.

Hmm...interesting...

I think Trader Joes and Aldi's are owned by the same company but there is a huge price difference between their stuff. I hope I am not paying 2x for the same thing at Trader Joes that's being sold at Aldi's under a different brand name.

[Reswob]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Think about this from Dainese's point of view. Which makes more sense: Do a marketing deal and make money without incurring any manufacturing costs, or ramp up production for a limited-availability low-margin product sold through only one retail channel? I know which I'd choose.

If I were Dainese, the obvious choice would be to not dilute my brand image by licencing an inferior product.

[Byakkotai]

These exclusives are pretty expensive when they're not on sale and the other jacket - Zen Evo (almost twin to the Rapier) - carries the same minimum tags as the most of the other Dainese leather jacket/pants/boots (Made in Ukraine, Armor specification papers, Sanitized lining etc.). Based on this, I would think that Dainese is producing these jackets for CG and that CG purchased the entire production run of these jackets. And CG has been having these exclusives for a while (predecessor Zen jacket).

But the interesting point (from above) is that Dainese itself might not deal directly with any claims associated with these logo bearing exclusives. Odd...

[Aggrotech]

i remember seeing the add about this jacket.

then i realized it was cyclegear and forgot about it Sadly theres very few things worth purchasing from CG.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Reswob

If I were Dainese, the obvious choice would be to not dilute my brand image by licencing an inferior product.

Not necessarily. First of all, we don't actually have any evidence that this is an inferior product, though knowing what I do about this stuff (which is certainly not everything) I'd probably steer clear -- or at least look at it with the same eye as I would a Sedici jacket and not be swayed by the Dainese logo.

I think that Dainese isn't risking devaluing its brand very much here. The prime audience for Dainese have enough money to afford premium products and are therefore less price-sensitive than the typical Cycle Gear customer… so not looking for bargains. They'll tend to be well informed about the product line and will seek out precisely what they want. In other words, they're less likely to buy solely because of the logo, but the brand does matter to them. They go for Dainese as much for tangible benefits as emotional ones. They're already invested in the brand because of their perceptions about it.

They're also less likely to shop at Cycle Gear in the first place because of prevailing perceptions about the retailer (CG is seen as lower quality, flash over substance, etc.). So the prime Dainese customer may never even be aware of the thing. (Are Ferrari owners likely to shop at Pep Boys?)

Now, if Dainese were to start making truly inferior product and advertising/selling it through its primary channels alongside its premium product, we've got a different picture.