Choosing a Gas Additive for E10 Gasoline

[DaBlue1]

I thought the information on this website was very interesting and educational. Much of the information many might have read or already know. However, as with any subject/topic dealing with different gasoline and additives, many will have their own experiences, opinions and expertise. Hopefully others will find it useful.

TIPS for Choosing a Gas Additive with E10 fuel type:

• AVOID products that contain alcohol (includes isopropyl, methanol, etc.) and/or strong solvents, emulsifiers and water-absorbing agents.
• No additive (chemical ingredient) can prevent or remove water from a sedentary tank in storage.
• Don't fall prey to deceptive advertising and scare tactics - Check product ingredients before use.
• Additives that are beneficial usually raise energy (improve performance) and help protect parts (lubricate).
• Since E10 is a strong solvent, cleanser, de-greaser, anti-freeze and octane enhancer it often replaces the need for additional gas additives. Ask yourself, why add more alcohol, for "prevention" for ethanol alcohol-caused gas problems? Simply makes no sense...

Simple E10 precautions are usually enough to avoid most gas-caused problems.
#1 E10 Gas Problem=Water Absorption Causing Phase Separation:
No miracle additive exists that can stop ethanol from absorbing water ---> Your best defense= Buying high quality gasoline + replacing often - Always test gasoline to confirm water-free with 10% or less ethanol.

Note: Sta-bil Fuel Stabilizer and Star Tron Fuel Treatment are currently listed as the two safest products with E10 gas, when a gas additive is necessary. They're alcohol-free.

You can review a list of gasoline additives at http://www.fuel-testers.com/is_gas_a..._e10_list.html

[crazymadbastard]

couple things there, since the alcohol attracts water- add water to gas to remove the alcohol crazy but true- do this in a container- rojoracing53 had a link to remove the water.

Need more octane? Toulene and Xylene can help in small doses like 10%- also good to add to old gas and crappy running motors after they sit for a while. Just my opinion and experiences.

[alex.s]

do you ever use zddp additives in your oil?
i've heard of putting alcohol in the gas to pass smog before

[InvisiBill]

In case anyone wants some controversy...

http://www.ls1.com/forums/f48/been-testing-oil-91206/

Originally Posted by Sarge

you guys know I test constantly and oil/tribology is my thing so here goes. I know the gasoline today is ****. Very dry and poor quality. Throw in ethanol and you got crap/corrosive gasoline. I use Fuel Power/Lucas UCL with great success in my cars and other peoples cars. At the first of the year some of us "lubrication physcho's" (mainly from the aircraft industry) discussed the **** quality of gasoline and the absolute advantages of running a fuel additive with lubrication capabilities and I think the testing is now complete and the results are very good. Biggest problem we had was the proper amount but we are now satisfied this works very well and you will have a smoother running engine/more power/better MPG....so here it is.....

What we are trying to accomplish ( The deliverables)

• We need to lubricate the fuel pump/seals/injectors.
• We need to clean the fuel system and scavenge water that ethanol attracts.
• We need a film of protection in our fuel system to stop corrosion.
• We need a cleaner for our spark plugs/valves/combustion chambers.
• We need to clean the ring packs
• We need to leave a film on the cylinder walls to eliminate cold start metal wear.

This was my groups short list of deliverables. Of course we knew if we accomplished this list the car should A) Run Smoother B) Run more efficiently C) Parts will last longer i.e. fuel pumps/injectors etc. D) We should see more RWHP and MPG

We did it. For pennies.
2 Stroke oil. Not just any two stroke oil But we needed the detergents etc. and found the perfect oil/add packs/viscosity in a marine 2 stroke oil you can get for under $10 bucks a gallon anywhere. We used Pennzoil Marine 2 stroke for our testing. Here is the "blurb" from Pennzoil.....

Use 1oz of the two stroke oil per 5 gallons of gas ( 1oz-5gallons/ 2ozs - 10 gallons etc. and that is the perfect ratio. Too much and it will make your engine run worse....too little and it wont do anything.....use the proper amount.....get a little bottle and keep it in your car.....We have seen a maximum of 5% better MPG down to a minimum of 2% better MPG. All of our test mules reported much smoother idles and cruising. No smoking or ill effects. No residue on plugs our pistons....actually the opposite....we saw "cleaning".....I am now comfortable recommending this for all. I also now run this mixture in my GTO/Mercedes/Silverado and G6 with all having smoother running motors and all gaining MPG. Give it a try and let me know your experience. Follow the mixture ratio to the letter. 1 oz per 5 gallons of gas.

I've been doing it since August. All of my vehicles were already running well, so I do it more for lubrication and prevention. I haven't noticed any huge changes, but things seem to run a bit smoother, for whatever that's worth. At a treatment cost of $0.02/gal, as long as it's not hurting anything, I'll keep doing it.

Anecdote: I filled up the 500 on November 15 before putting it away for the winter. The extent of my winterizing was turning off the petcock and letting the engine use up all the gas in the carb bowls. It sat in the garage until March 30. I'm not sure how much gas normally degrades from sitting, but the bike fired right up and ran well on the 4.5 month old gas treated with the TC-W3. This morning I needed to fill up again. On that tank of gas, I got 49.3mpg, which is actually higher than the last three tanks last fall, and my overall average is only 49.5mpg. For comparison, last year's mild winter let me ride a bit into the beginning of January and I was riding again before the end of March. I filled up on December 17 (got 49.5mpg on that tank), then again on March 30, giving me 38.8mpg for that tank (my lowest ever). The fact that I rode in the cold weather could very well be a contributor to that, using the choke longer and such. But in the most simplistic terms, this year's "hibernation" tank of gas with TC-W3 (and sitting longer) got me 27% more mileage than last year's without.


Also, http://pure-gas.org/ to find stations that sell E0 gas. Unfortunately, there aren't any around here other than seasonal race (high octane) gas.

[crazymadbastard]

I would not burn oil in my car with $2000 in catalytic converters to foul up.

for the ninja though, I do have some old 2 stroke gas mix to burn up.

[alex.s]

a four stroke separates its oil and fuel system. i could see it benefitting the fuel pump. but ... clean the fuel system by adding oil? leave a film of oil on the cylinder walls to prevent hard cold starts??? do you know why an oil control ring exists? why would adding thicker oil into gas clean out an injector? gas is a stronger solvant than oil. and i could see the added pressure from the thicker oil causing issues when the pressure is increased from the injector pump. if you did it on a diesel you would probably break your injectors. not to mention what it's going to do to your emission control systems. sounds like a terribly idea for a 4-stroke.

[InvisiBill]

Like I said, controversy. =)

Originally Posted by Sarge

We now are over 130,000 miles on our test mules ( collectively) with no ill side effects. All positive. Dont forget this is really an old school "trick"...folks have been putting in Marvel Mystery Oil and 2 Stroke oil for decades.....what we did is fine tune it. Furthermore do not lose sight of the fact at a 500:1 ratio ( really 1oz to 5 gallons is more like 600:1) you have less 2 stroke oil than water/chemicals that came with your gasoline. So you cannot "hurt" or degrade anything....it is all good for long term.....The reason I call for the Marine 2 Stroke oil is it is designed for and the add packs are there for water cooled motors....lower combustion ratings and detergents we were looking for. Use it with confidence.
For you folks running E10....this is a must to off set the long term corrosives of the corn alcohol on your seals/gaskets/fuel rails......

Keep in mind this is a 640:1 ratio. It's a fraction of the oil that goes into a normal 2-stroke mix. TC-W3 is ashless oil designed for water-cooled engines (i.e. lower combustion temps), and its additive packs were determined (by Sarge) to be good for cleaning up a gasoline fuel system. All of that should result in a pretty clean burn. Those who have been into their engines after using this have actually found them to be quite clean, due to the detergents and/or oil film, as well as reporting better results on smog tests. People have actually been adding small amounts of 2-stroke oil to diesel to help with lubrication for a long time.

I don't believe it's due entirely to the TC-W3, but the first tank where I added it to the Ninja is my highest ever MPG, almost 14% above my overall average. I filled that tank quite high (which could also explain the higher MPG), but I also rode it straight home and parked it on the sidestand, which resulted in some gas actually leaking out the overflow (whatever quantity leaked out gave me 0.0mpg). I've had a couple tanks that were 10-11% above average before I started using the TC-W3, so 14% isn't completely crazy, but it is the highest I've ever had in 7,800 miles.

[alex.s]

i'll believe it when i see evidence. so far all that has been presented is people's opinion and speculation based on observation. no real reliable measurements shown.

even your own mpg measurements are incorrect based on what you are saying.

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

Like I said, controversy. =)



Keep in mind this is a 640:1 ratio. It's a fraction of the oil that goes into a normal 2-stroke mix. TC-W3 is ashless oil designed for water-cooled engines (i.e. lower combustion temps), and its additive packs were determined (by Sarge) to be good for cleaning up a gasoline fuel system. All of that should result in a pretty clean burn. Those who have been into their engines after using this have actually found them to be quite clean, due to the detergents and/or oil film, as well as reporting better results on smog tests. People have actually been adding small amounts of 2-stroke oil to diesel to help with lubrication for a long time.

I don't believe it's due entirely to the TC-W3, but the first tank where I added it to the Ninja is my highest ever MPG, almost 14% above my overall average. I filled that tank quite high (which could also explain the higher MPG), but I also rode it straight home and parked it on the sidestand, which resulted in some gas actually leaking out the overflow (whatever quantity leaked out gave me 0.0mpg). I've had a couple tanks that were 10-11% above average before I started using the TC-W3, so 14% isn't completely crazy, but it is the highest I've ever had in 7,800 miles.

Very good information and you know what: That's what all the guys in Germany also do since a very long time already.

[alex.s]

why not add boric acid instead?

at such a small amount, the oil is doing nearly nothing to aide the lubrication of anything except the fuel pump. the problem with the logic is that pump gas already has upper cylinder lubricants in it that don't have the problems that oil has in 4 strokes like fouling plugs and clogging emission control systems. unless you are adding things like xylene or toulene or acetone or something, there is no reason to add extra upper cylinder lubricants. because they already exist in the correct ratio in pump gas.

the increase in MPG observed could very easily be placebo from the rider riding smoother because they believed the mpg was going to be higher or something.

[bruce71198]

Originally Posted by alex.s

if you did it on a diesel you would probablwy break your injectors. .

2 quarts of 2 stroke oil to a tankful of diesel in a Duramax is recommended to help free up and prevent the sticking of the electronic fuel pressure regulator. A problem part on the Duramax.

[Desmoluci]

I know this is a controversial topic, but I've never used any kind of additives in my old cars and bikes, and have yet to have any problems related to today's fuel. If I know something is going to be stored for awhile, I just drain the fuel out of it.
Save your money.


Edit
The new fuel can't be used in the old fiberglass tanks, Penton, Ossa, Bultaco etc. It just eats them up, ask me how I know this...

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by Desmoluci

I know this is a controversial topic, but I've never used any kind of additives in my old cars and bikes, and have yet to have any problems related to today's fuel. If I know something is going to be stored for awhile, I just drain the fuel out of it.
Save your money.

There's nothing controversial about draining everything dry before storage. We did it in the military for years. A lot of gas and diesel vehicles and equipment used to get stored for months at different worldwide locations (for logistic purposes) with often times no support to keep up monthly PM's. When needed those items could be pulled out, gassed up, primed and be ready to go. However the gas back then was different, but even with E10 the same can be done.