Emergency: Need Help Changing Brake Pads (Oil Squirted Out)

[Francis]

So I removed this (pic1 pic2 accidentally and oil squirted out. I'm going to assume there's suppose to be oil there.

First question. How should I remove the oil from the rest of the caliper? Water and soap? Second, only a teaspoon or two squirted out so should I just top off the oil?

Also, when I first removed the brake pads, I could pull the brake lever and this (pic) would be pushed. That normal? Coz now I can't do it (after the oil squirted out).

Also, what is this (pic)? It has a "cap" on it. Was that what I was supposed to pull?


This isn't supposed to be rocket science lol. I don't know why I ****ed up.

Hope I can get some quick replies. I have all the tools and stuff waiting downstairs haha.

[alex.s]

Oops!

DO NOT PUT SOAP AND WATER IN THERE.

clean it with brake fluid and a clean rag. clean the outside with contact brake cleaner. you took the piston out, you normally dont do that unless you are rebuilding the caliper. the piston is what pushes on the brake pad. the little covered nipple bolt thing is called a bleeder screw. you use it to drain/bleed the fluid. once you put the piston back in (replacing any busted seals or whatever), you use the bleeder screw to bleed the brake line of air. if there is any air in the line, the brakes wont hardly work.

the trick to doing brake pads is not to push on the lever unless you are bleeding them. pushing on the lever pushes on the pistons and closes them (or if you go far enough with no brake pads, pushes them completely out of the caliper block)

normally you would read up on how to change something out before you start taking things apart. but i too am a fan of adventure so i can't hardly blame you

[Audi_O]

That is the piston that pushes the brake pads to the rotor to stop. put it back in. you dont need to wash it with soap and water, just make sure there is no dirt on it. you will need to bleed out the air from the system.

[CZroe]

You might have lost enough brake fluid to need a full flush/fluid change. Also, that stuff is caustic and will eat through anything rubber or painted, so clean it off your forks and wheel or any plastic ASAP.

[greg737]

Don't mess with nothin' you don't know nothin' about.

[Francis]

I read up on it, just ****ed up bad .

What type of brake fluid? So "topping it off" isnt good enough? And no seals are broken so good enough?

How does one flush out the air?

I'm sorry to be asking these question. I crruenty have no time to research if I wanna get this done today.

Also, why isn't it being pushed anymore when I pull brake lever?

[greg737]

Also, why isn't it being pushed anymore when I pull brake lever?

Because now there's air in the system. Air can be compressed, brake fluid can't be compressed.

[CZroe]

All I know is that it's worth going through pains to prevent air from entering when changing fluid and such, so it must be a justifiably bigger pain to deal with it when air does get in the system.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Francis

.............I'm sorry to be asking these question. I crruenty have no time to research if I wanna get this done today.

You will not be able to finish today.

Wash all the painted parts that have been contaminated, that "oil" is brake fluid and is a paint stripper.

Slow down, find temporary transportation, research, learn, do it properly and road-test results.

What you are doing can kill you if not done in the only possible way: properly.

You need to buy enough brake cleaner and DOT 3 or DOT 4 brake fluid and to find a helper for you to bleed the system, test, bleed some more, test, bleed some more,........

Start by reading this tomorrow morning:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Brake_caliper_rebuild

[k-os]

Originally Posted by Francis

I read up on it, just ****ed up bad .

What type of brake fluid? So "topping it off" isnt good enough? And no seals are broken so good enough?

How does one flush out the air?

I'm sorry to be asking these question. I crruenty have no time to research if I wanna get this done today.

Also, why isn't it being pushed anymore when I pull brake lever?

If you've still got these questions after you "read up on it" I think you need to go back and re-read the process. If it's your first time working your brakes you should have someone that has already done it before to help you through. They're a pretty crucial thing to go in blindly, you don't want to cut any corners or make mistakes and then go and find out when you're riding.

[sousuke86]

You can gravity bleed the caliper. Just put a hose to the bleeder screw nipple and the other hose into a water bottle or something to catch the fluid. loosen the bleeder screw a bit and fluid should start coming out. Make sure the reservoir never goes empty so just keep adding brake fluid every now and then. Use DOT 3 or DOT 4 brake fluid only.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by sousuke86

You can gravity bleed the caliper. Just put a hose to the bleeder screw nipple and the other hose into a water bottle or something to catch the fluid. loosen the bleeder screw a bit and fluid should start coming out. Make sure the reservoir never goes empty so just keep adding brake fluid every now and then. Use DOT 3 or DOT 4 brake fluid only.

you need to build up pressure, then quickly open and release the bleeder valve. otherwise you arent getting all the air out. the best way is to use a vacuum bleeder which can be bought for like $15 at harbor freight. build up vacuum, open the bleeder valve and keep the brake res topped off while you suck everything out. works best with 3 people, one to keep it topped off, one to keep the vacuum going, and one to open/close the bleeder

i think for clear written instruction the OP needs to look up procedure for rebuilding the calipers to see exactly how to get everything back together.

[greg737]

i think for clear written instruction the OP needs to look up procedure for rebuilding the calipers to see exactly how to get everything back together.

@Motofool already gave the OP a great reference for this (three posts before yours).

[Francis]

Thanks for the advice, warnings and input.

Took a whole week off so I can go riding. Bleh, this should still be fun I guess.

Im heading to te shop to pick up brake pads, brake fluid and I guess something to clean it off the rest of the components.

[krolinked]

Dont forget the clear tubing or bleeder kit!

[Francis]

Originally Posted by krolinked

Dont forget the clear tubing or bleeder kit!

They'll know what I'm talking about if I ask for:

Brake fluid dot 3
Bleeding kit
Clear tubing
Brake cleaner

?

[DevinWolfe]

If you want to go that route the 1 man bleeder kit will look like this. I use one of these to flush old fluid out by chasing it with new until the fluid exiting is completely clear/new.

http://www.amazon.com/OEM-25036-Blee.../dp/B000CMDP44

I would recommend zip-tying your brake lever (if you have to do this solo) to create pressure and crack the bleed vlalve open and closed, as previously stated. Just be sure not to let any air get sucked into the line from the reservoir as the fluid level starts to drop. If you do this all you need is the clear tubing and a container (bottle).

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by Francis

They'll know what I'm talking about if I ask for:

Brake fluid dot 3
Bleeding kit or Clear tubing
Brake cleaner

?

Yes

you'll only need one of the 2 in bold.

there's a knack to putting a piston back in, you need even pressure all around or it can catch on the seals. (if it's on the bike attach the bleed kit & open the bleed nipple a 1/4 turn) line the piston up & put a G-clamp on it, tighten up the clamp to push the piston back in

There's also a trick to bleed the master cyl (up by the lever), once you've bled the calliper pull the brake fully & tie it overnight. next day open the reservoir & break the air seal before slowly letting off the brake, you should see some small bubbles come up from the master cylinder, that's the last of the air in the system test the brakes, the lever should feel very solid, slowly pump the brake until no more bubbles come out then seal up the reservoir.

[Francis]

I've managed to remove some air (having trouble bleeding. Sometimes when I open the bleeder screw, no air is seen or barely)

I can now push the piston by pulling the lever, but only one of them. I guess the other piston still has air?

[Motofool]

The fluid exerts even pressure over both pistons; the piston with less resistance moves out.
If the seal is twisted, that piston is hard to move and will eventually leak.

You have to start the bleeding after the movement of both pistons is restrained by the pads and disc.

Put more fluid in the reservoir and keep pumping.

Stop and refill when the level reaches half the full height in the reservoir.

[Francis]

Alright, I was doing it all wrong. I originally tried bleeding it last night while the brake pads weren't installed nor the calliper bolted on since i wanted to see what was going to happen to the pistons.

Doing it "properly" now (pads installed, calliper bolted) and I'm starting to feel the pressure after a couple of pulls with the bleeder screw tight (closed).

I guess the same thing was happening last night where only one of the piston would be pushed, but once it was pushed enough towards the pads, the second piston would start getting the pressure??

I'll be making a summary of what I thought and the questions I had of this tonight if/once I get this done. Hopefully it'll answer some newbie/beginner questions for those that need it.

edit: I'm not done yet, but it's getting there. My only fear is that sooner or later, the "normal" position of the pistons would be where it's already pushing the brake pads on the rotors. I'm going to assume this shouldn't happen?

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Francis

Alright, I was doing it all wrong. I originally tried bleeding it last night while the brake pads weren't installed nor the calliper bolted on since i wanted to see what was going to happen to the pistons.

Doing it "properly" now (pads installed, calliper bolted) and I'm starting to feel the pressure after a couple of pulls with the bleeder screw tight (closed).

I guess the same thing was happening last night where only one of the piston would be pushed, but once it was pushed enough towards the pads, the second piston would start getting the pressure??

I'll be making a summary of what I thought and the questions I had of this tonight if/once I get this done. Hopefully it'll answer some newbie/beginner questions for those that need it.

edit: I'm not done yet, but it's getting there. My only fear is that sooner or later, the "normal" position of the pistons would be where it's already pushing the brake pads on the rotors. I'm going to assume this shouldn't happen?

The "normal" position of the pistons is always dynamic. Brake pads wear away, remember?

[red5]

Originally Posted by Francis

edit: I'm not done yet, but it's getting there. My only fear is that sooner or later, the "normal" position of the pistons would be where it's already pushing the brake pads on the rotors. I'm going to assume this shouldn't happen?

The "normal", as in "at rest position" of the pistons, is right against the pads and the pads right against the rotor. They are not going to retract back into the caliper when you release the brake lever, if that's what you're talking about.

[Francis]

Originally Posted by red5

The "normal", as in "at rest position" of the pistons, is right against the pads and the pads right against the rotor. They are not going to retract back into the caliper when you release the brake lever, if that's what you're talking about.

No, that's not what I thought.

I was afraid that while bleeding, I would somehow end up having the pistons pushed right to the bad (and more) and resulting the pads "hugging" the rotor (as in.. 75%+ braking) while the lever is "normal" position.

Does that make sense? I'm really ****** at articulating myself sometimes.

How long does this usually take? I think I'm gonna have to go out again and buy more DOT 4...

[capriccio]

I remember I used 150 mL something of brake fluid until the fluid came out clear and no bubbles. It was less than 1 bottle of 12 oz Valvoline bottle.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Francis

No, that's not what I thought.

I was afraid that while bleeding, I would somehow end up having the pistons pushed right to the bad (and more) and resulting the pads "hugging" the rotor (as in.. 75%+ braking) while the lever is "normal" position.

Does that make sense? I'm really ****** at articulating myself sometimes.

How long does this usually take? I think I'm gonna have to go out again and buy more DOT 4...

The pads don't normally retract when you stop applying force. The imperfections of the rotor and pads push back ever so slightly as the pads drag across the spinning rotor. The drag becomes minimal shortly after releasing the lever. Because the pads wear out, the "at rest" position of the pistons is dynamic: Always just enough for a light drag after "biting" the rotor.

Your main concern should be getting them apart without marring them if you accidentally close them up without a rotor in between. It's best to use your old pads so that you can use a screwdriver to push the pistons back in. Be aware that this will push fluid back into the reservoir, so it can't be too full. Doing it with the cap open may actually spray fluid all over the bike, so be careful. If you threw away the old pads already, I'd fold some cardboard between them any time they are off the rotor.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Francis

....I was afraid that while bleeding, I would somehow end up having the pistons pushed right to the bad (and more) and resulting the pads "hugging" the rotor (as in.. 75%+ braking) while the lever is "normal" position.

Don't worry about all that.
The system is self-centering in both ends (lever-small piston (at handlebar) and big pistons (at caliper)).

The fluid is just like a steel cable transmitting and multiplying the force of your hand directly onto the back of the pistons.
The lever just pushes a smaller piston that feeds from the fluid reservoir.

When the force is released, a spring moves the little piston and the lever back, and some fluid returns to the reservoir.

Any air between the little and the big pistons acts like a spring at the end of that imaginary steel cable, reducing the force that the big pistons feel and exert on the pads.

Keep the bottles of fluids and the reservoir closed as much as possible, since the fluid absorbs humidity like crazy (which is not good for the system and performance).

Also, try keeping the friction faces of the new pads and disc as clean as surgical room.

[Francis]

Whoa. This won't end. Started my second bottle now (mind you... I probably used only half with first bottle).

There's still very very tiny air bubbles coming out each time I:

1. Pull lever few times (it builds up pressure on my lever)
2. Open. Leader screw while pulling lever.
3. Close bleeder screw before lever touches bar.

K. Just tested it going around 20 kph. Seems fine. It feels different, but maybe due to fresh pads that haven't been broken in yet?

I'll bleed some more, but the fluid coming out is already the new bottle. So I'm sure I flushed out the first bottle already. I bet there still gonna be micro bubbles that I would see.

edit: alright, i believe i'm finished. now, the other problem. the top bolt that secures the caliper is stripped (this the right term?) is this something I can replace from some automotive shop/home improvement shop? or do I need to order form kawasaki?

the ****** part is, the second bolt is fine and can be screwed in to the second hole, but when I try to screw it in the top hole, it won't work.

[Francis]

i messaged a few people in case they don't check back in this thread anymore. anyways..

it's all fixed now. but out of curiosity, is it possible that there's still SOME air in there? as in.. is it possible to achieve 100% no air?

if there is some somewhere in there, how could I tell? if there's still some, would my brakes fail suddenly sooner or later or the brakes just won't work 100% properly as it should?

[Flying Pig]

Originally Posted by Francis

They'll know what I'm talking about if I ask for:

Brake fluid dot 3
....

I was under the impression that we should only be using DOT4 on motorcycles. Definitely not 5 or 5.1....

[k-os]

Originally Posted by Flying Pig

I was under the impression that we should only be using DOT4 on motorcycles. Definitely not 5 or 5.1....

DOT 5.1 can still be used as it's still an ethylene-glycol based fluid, it also has a higher boiling temp than DOT 3 and 4. DOT 5 is silicone based and can damage/swell seals if used in our brake system.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by k-os

DOT 5.1 can still be used as it's still an ethylene-glycol based fluid, it also has a higher boiling temp than DOT 3 and 4. DOT 5 is silicone based and can damage/swell seals if used in our brake system.

I wonder if my dealer set mine up wrong because my reservoir leaked all around the seal and I need a sock.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by greg737

Don't mess with nothin' you don't know nothin' about.

That's how we learn, and learning is expensive. BUT, make sure it's done right before getting on it.... measure twice, and cut one. Take it slow.