$300 tune up? What would you do

[Omarel]

Hey guys. I have an 07 ninja 250. I got it used for like $1k and at some point it had a salvage and rebuilt title. It obviously had something happened in the past

I've had it for a year for mostly local rides not highway. It rides alright beside the engine noise does sound very raggedy. And the shifting is a little jerky.

I took it to a nearby motorcycle mechanic to get a new front tire.

When I went to pick it up he told me 2 things:

He says that after putting back the wheel on he went to tighten some part To attach the wheel (I can't remember what) and when he did it too tight it would lock up the wheel so he had to loosen it a bit. He said the cottor pins would keep the wheel in place tho.

Sounds weird?

Also he starts saying the bike is unsafe and the it looks like it could "blow up" I'm like huh?

He wants to do a $300 tune up. But he doesn't specify exactly what he will do in the tune up.

I'm not sure if I should just let him do the tune up.

Any thoughts. What's up with the tire. What about the tune up. What would you do of you were me?

[MrAtom]

He's full of ****. Find a competent mechanic and have them look it over if you're concerned. Should be ~$50.

[csmith12]

Hi O,

You have to crank down pretty hard on the axle nut to get it too tight. But if you put way over the spec amount of torque, the side loading on the wheel bearings could be an issue. And yes, if a bearing issue is ignored it could lead to wheel lock up but you normally hear and feel them before it comes to that point. He is trying to save you some $$$, I don't get the scare tactic, but get yourself a torque wrench and the manual. The factory spec torque is plenty fine to hold your wheel in alignment and the pin through the castle null + through the axle will keep the nut from getting loose enough for your wheel to fall off.

As far as your tune up goes... "raggedy" is a term us KY folk are pretty familiar with. lol A good guess is, your mechanic is hearing some valve tick and wants to do the valves. Other interpretations of "raggedy" may mean it just doesn't run very well and he may want to do carb cleaning, air + oil filter change and other general maintenance stuff. Either way, price seems normal for dealer services. Most of this work you can do yourself with a manual and some pretty basic tools.

1st, get a list of service items/repairs that you would be getting for $300. He may be giving you a great deal, or taking you to the cleaners. We just can't tell.

[Ducati999]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

He's full of ****. Find a competent mechanic and have them look it over if you're concerned. Should be ~$50.

I have to agree 100%. You said he tightened the Front/rear axel too tight and the wheel would not turn? Any even half brain mechanic knows there is a specified torque value for every single nut and bolt on your bike and if he just tightened, till he could no longer get the nut to move, he could have caused damage! You can find the correct torque listed for each axel on this site or in the factory manual. Once you reach the specified torque you stop and the cotter pin prevents it from backing off/loosening up! Your bike may need the valves checked/adjusted (based on the noise you said was coming from the motor) You can have a Kawasaki dealer adjust the valves for around $300 and they SHOULD use the factory manual to make sure it is done right! I personally would not let that mechanic touch my bike again!

[jkv45]

Find a new mechanic, or better yet, learn to do the regular maintenance and tune-up yourself.

There are lots of things that need regular adjustment and attention in order to keep your cycle safe, so getting some tools and learning to do the work yourself is a valuable skill.

This section has a lot of info that may help you - http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Ninja250_Howto

[csmith12]

Hold up... if the tech overtightened something on the wheels to the point of lock up, then yes, find a new tech/shop/dealer. I am honestly giving someone the benefit of the doubt here. If it was that way before hand or some something is not right/bent/tweaked ect... that we don't know about, then we can't rush to say he is full of bologna. I am interested to know more about that part.

So after my normal homework and way of helping people.... Is this related to your other thread about getting a new front tire installed? If the bike has been down before, and this may be the first time a new front is installed, maybe the installer found your forks are not in alignment. This misalignment along with high torque values would explain why the front brake would drag and cause your front wheel not to spin freely.

Let us know or feel free to take some pics and maybe we can help you out in a better way.

[Panda]

Are you in Montclair NJ?

I know a shop in the Bronx I've been going to for 4-5 years. I trust them and they do good work. http://speedmotorcyclesnyc.com/

[Omarel]

F this mechanic. I know my bike has some issues. I have to go with my gut that there's something about this guy that seemed shady. I'm going to pick it up today.

Now I have to figure out wtf he did to my front axis. And if it's safe

[Omarel]

Originally Posted by Panda

Are you in Montclair NJ?/[/url]

Yes Panda. I'm in that area.

[Omarel]

Originally Posted by csmith12

So after my normal homework and way of helping people.... Is this related to your other thread about getting a new front tire installed? If the bike has been down before, and this may be the first time a new front is installed, maybe the installer found your forks are not in alignment. This misalignment along with high torque values would explain why the front brake would drag and cause your front wheel not to spin freely.

I can't remember another thread but yes i went to get a new front tire. Yes the bike has been down before at very low speeds. I really can't blame him per say. But if it was from before wouldn't the wheel have locked up on me. Why only after removing and putting back? But sure anything is possible.

But overall It's just a feeling. I think I just want to understand better before rushing into spending all that money. It doesn't feel like he's giving me enough details. Just Vague info and scare tactics.

[Brother Michigan]

If a mechanic won't tell you everything he's going to do on a quoted job, run. He either incompetent or intentionally deceitful.

[SLOWn60]

My take on this is similar to Chris's: the bike has a known salvage history but I'm assuming the damage details are unknown and again I'm assuming the OP has never put a wrench to it or may not know what is what if he did. It's certainly within reason there may be residual damage to the front end that the OP is unaware of.
Though I'm curious why the OP selected the mechanic; I'm not ready to throw the guy under the bus based on the facts presented. You can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear. More details are needed before judgement and the OP may not like the real solution & cost!
So my advice is: do your research to select your mechanic then accept that some things, especially on a "deal" bike may have expensive issues.
My best advice though is if you're going to buy a "deal" bike; you should know how and want to wrench it yourself so you know what to look for and how to make sure it's safe and fix it at low cost.
Asking for an itemized estimate is fair and reasonable.

[csmith12]

Your other thread wasn't that long ago and I was trying to put the entire picture together before passing a judgement on something missing quite a few details.

I dislike the scare tactics but when I don't want to fix a problem or update my bike in some way, I take it to my buddies shop. He sometimes uses those tactics as well but he has your best interests in mine and just "calls it like it is". The one thing he is NOT is vague. $300 would be a hefty price to pay for replacing some spark plugs and changing fluids and other basic stuff that takes a skilled worker only .5h to complete.

Lastly, each crash is different. The speed at which the bike went down is largely irrelevant. Out of my crashes, the worst damage to my bike was the one at only 45mph vs the insane 97mph down. You would be surprised how little force it takes to bend a fork tube. These lil 250's crash like tanks, but sometimes they hit something just right and all hell breaks loose.

Either way, getting a second opinion is never a bad thing to do when you question something or you have just that gut feeling. If you do, can you update us on the status so we know your riding around safe and it just might also help someone else in the future.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by SLOWn60

You can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.

Right... but you can make this!

Click the picture for more...

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Right... but you can make this!

Click the picture for more...

Further evidence that Hot Sause addicts will use anything as a delivery system to enable their fix!

[Omarel]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Your other thread wasn't that long ago

Yes, that's my thread about tire size.

I chose him because he does have good reviews online, but honestly, I didn't get that feeling when I walked in.

I'm not opposed to spending money on my bike, but I want to feel like you actually care, know what you're doing, but aren't trying to nickel and dime me.

I have a lot to learn about bikes without a doubt. Definitely still getting acclimated.

My reasons for concern was him just saying:
"Your bike is about to blow up" Why? Who knows. What's going to happen exactly? Then a bs response.
"We can do a tune up and it'll be like new again," but then he doesn't itemize.
"We can do an oil change" Um I already did the oil change my self.
"Did you change the oil filter?" yes
"Ok we can skip that" Um yeah ok what else are we gonna do?
Continues texting someone while carrying on conversation with me.
"I can't answer any of your questions unless I actually look and do the tuneup?"
"If you're bike gets stolen or anything happens while it's here, we're not responsible"

Who knows? Maybe he's just straight up and doesn't want to offer potential answers for fear of being wrong.

I'm feeling like my best bet is to shop around a bit and not ride for a while until I can feel more trust with a mechanic to better explain.

[Omarel]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Your other thread If you do, can you update us on the status so we know your riding around safe and it just might also help someone else in the future.

The update is I'm holding off on the tune-up. But he's saying he doesn't think it's safe to ride and he's recommending a new wheel spacer and bearings in the front at $100 altogether. I'm going to have him do that just to make sure the wheel is stable.

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Hi O,

You have to crank down pretty hard on the axle nut to get it too tight. But if you put way over the spec amount of torque, the side loading on the wheel bearings could be an issue. And yes, if a bearing issue is ignored it could lead to wheel lock up but you normally hear and feel them before it comes to that point. He is trying to save you some $$$, I don't get the scare tactic, but get yourself a torque wrench and the manual. The factory spec torque is plenty fine to hold your wheel in alignment and the pin through the castle null + through the axle will keep the nut from getting loose enough for your wheel to fall off.

As far as your tune up goes... "raggedy" is a term us KY folk are pretty familiar with. lol A good guess is, your mechanic is hearing some valve tick and wants to do the valves. Other interpretations of "raggedy" may mean it just doesn't run very well and he may want to do carb cleaning, air + oil filter change and other general maintenance stuff. Either way, price seems normal for dealer services. Most of this work you can do yourself with a manual and some pretty basic tools.

1st, get a list of service items/repairs that you would be getting for $300. He may be giving you a great deal, or taking you to the cleaners. We just can't tell.

A mechanic saying you need a tune up, and it will cost $300 without listing what the tune up consists of makes me suspicious. He should have given the OP a written quote.

I have a buddy that owns a car repair shop, you bring your car in for an oil change they check over the car and give you a list of recommended maintenance and repairs, with a written estimate.

The mechanic should have said something "Your bike is making funny noises in the valve train, it needs an oil change, filter change,valve adjustment, spark plugs replaced, and a new front wheel bearing and spacer" and handed him a written estimate.

I wouldn't take my bike back to that mechanic based on the OP's report.

Not saying the OP's bike doesn't need some work, I'm just not comfortable with a mechanic that can't tell me what he is going to do to my bike for $300.

[csmith12]

@Omarel I am not really liking your highlights from the conversation between you and him, it sadly plays like a broken record heard by so many of us. Seems your just a payday to him, which is typical of dealers and far too many shops. I don't really care if he could do the work or not, I would go somewhere else. But alas, you need a safe bike to ride. If you can't do the work and need it, I guess you do what you gotta do. Around my parts that is a $75 job for BOTH wheels + parts at roughly $25 (all balls). So at worst case, he is expensive, lacking customer service skills but at least has an ethical safety concern to alert you to. Have him do the work if you must and then find someone else. The bike repair business from my point of view is based on trust first, everything else is second. Your trusting this guy with literally, the skin on your behind. Blah....

If you can take off your wheels and reinstall them then the spacer is not even a concern, but chaining bearings is not really hard. There are tons of youtube videos on how to do it with minimal tools. The parts are cheap, the work is easy and fast and you can fully trust that you did the job right. Even new riders have the "gut" skill. If your gut tells you something is wrong, it most likely is.

[CaliGrrl]

I agree- that mechanic sounds shady. My hubby and I had dealings with one kind of like that. Won't tell you what exactly they're doing but it'll cost money.

As far as taking your wheel off and putting it back on- it wasn't that hard and you could totally take it off and take a look at it yourself. See what it looks like. Doing the valves was a bit more involved, and if you had a friend who knew what to do would be helpful, but even that wasn't horrid to do.

[VaFish]

Very timely video in the news feed.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=264596

[csmith12]

Given the lack of attention to detail by the tech, I thought it would be cool to have the link to the "bearing inspection" video mentioned in the first video.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/mc...wheel-bearings

Also, I don't have a drift. In fact... I never will own one. Here is why; go to your local biglots or deep discount store. They will have tools. Buy the biggest, longest screwdriver they have for like 2 bucks. When you get home, cut off the tip and break the plastic handle off. Boom, instant $2 drift, but... they will not last long but you can keep cutting off the marred end until it gets to short. Meh though, beats paying $30-$40 for a really good drift imho. To each their own.

[SLOWn60]

I think I paid about $3 each for a 8" length of brass rod in 3 diameters from a metal supply shop.
Id be concerned with the hardness & brittleness of a cheap steel screwdriver drift. Shrapnel is razor sharp!
Pro tip: grind the "mushrooms" that develop for the same reason: sharp & they fly like bullets when they do fracture off!

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by SLOWn60

I think I paid about $3 each for a 8" length of brass rod in 3 diameters from a metal supply shop.
Id be concerned with the hardness & brittleness of a cheap steel screwdriver drift. Shrapnel is razor sharp!
Pro tip: grind the "mushrooms" that develop for the same reason: sharp & they fly like bullets when they do fracture off!

There is a meme about guns floating around that fits with this. It says something similar.

There are about 1 billion people in the US that use screwdrivers incorrectly every day; as pry bars, chisels and the likes. If it was a problem, you would know about it already.

[JohnnyBravo]

You don't wanna know all the wrong ways I've used screwdrivers, only had one catastrophic failure... I'm still here to type about it, but it was a doozy.

Cheap Screwdrivers are not a good replacement for a tow bolt

[Z1R rider]

Originally Posted by Omarel

He says that after putting back the wheel on he went to tighten some part To attach the wheel (I can't remember what) and when he did it too tight it would lock up the wheel so he had to loosen it a bit. He said the cottor pins would keep the wheel in place tho.

Originally Posted by Omarel

The update is I'm holding off on the tune-up. But he's saying he doesn't think it's safe to ride and he's recommending a new wheel spacer and bearings in the front at $100 altogether. I'm going to have him do that just to make sure the wheel is stable.

Originally Posted by Omarel

I can't remember another thread but yes i went to get a new front tire. Yes the bike has been down before at very low speeds. I really can't blame him per say. But if it was from before wouldn't the wheel have locked up on me. Why only after removing and putting back? But sure anything is possible.

He didn't get the speed-o drive engaged properly, easy fix if he didn't bend or break the drive...loosen axle ( I would take it clear off and make sure it isn't bent or broke )and engage the speed-o drive properly.

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by csmith12

There is a meme about guns floating around that fits with this. It says something similar.

There are about 1 billion people in the US that use screwdrivers incorrectly every day; as pry bars, chisels and the likes. If it was a problem, you would know about it already.

lol! You've proved my point: I do know about it! I know personally 2 HD mechanics with permanent eye damage from hitting steel on steel!
Check with your local Emergency Department and Workers Comp.
you're not likely to die or even suffer permanent injury but for the sake of $3 why bother?
There's an old adage: The right tool for the job.
It's not a marketing slogan. It's from damaging parts and people when the wrong tool is used!
And yes; I do use sockets for pressing!

[Omarel]

Originally Posted by csmith12

@Omarel I am not really liking your highlights from the conversation between you and him,

My exact thoughts! It's really mostly a trust issue. Who knows maybe there as honest as can be. I just wouldn't know.

So he calls me back saying that he discovered that it was a misalignment issue so I don't need any wheel spacers or bearings now. And since they should've "caught it" there's no extra charge for the extra work.

Then he asks about doing the tuneup. Um no.

I brought the bike home tonight with a new front tire.

Gonna take it to someone else to follow through on the engine noise issues.

[xorbe]

I had a friend call me frantically during oil change with that same mechanic BS. He told her that her car was in dire need of about $800 of "maintenance" asap ... told her to get the keys from them and leave asap.

[cadd]

OP, what's the name of this shop? I'm in the NJ area too and would like to avoid him.