ninjette.org

Go Back   ninjette.org > General > General Motorcycling Discussion

View Poll Results: Can you comfortably brake while downshifting?
Yes - I'm pro 50 86.21%
No - I'm nooblet 8 13.79%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 14th, 2015, 01:00 PM   #1
akima
Nooblet
 
akima's Avatar
 
Name: Akima
Location: England
Join Date: Jul 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250R FI

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '13
Can you comfortably brake while downshifting?

I can't :/

I just want to know how much a suck compared to you guys... or whether it's normal to suck at this.

Right now, I tend to drop one gear before I start my heavy braking, then do my braking and then down shift some more after the braking (until the revs are where I want them), then take the corner (or deal with whatever it is that causes me to brake so hard).
__________________________________________________
akima is offline   Reply With Quote




Old July 14th, 2015, 01:03 PM   #2
cbinker
Track Clown
 
cbinker's Avatar
 
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012

Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, '15 TTR-125, SV650 Racer

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '15
requires a lot of practice. Coming to a stop sign, i am pretty lazy and hold the clutch lever and brake with no shifting. Coming to Stop light i will shift down to 2 and coast. Then there is the track, i black out and don't remember.
__________________________________________________

TEAM ALFALFA
Unregistered swallows.
cbinker is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 14th, 2015, 01:18 PM   #3
csmith12
The Corner Whisperer
 
csmith12's Avatar
 
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track)

Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
While riding the street, I always want to be in the relative gear for my rolling speed. When you want to go, there just is no substitute for "already" being in the proper gear to give the bike the inputs you want. Fumbling around to find the proper gear takes valuable time and attention that I would rather spend on other things. On the track, especially while coaching... I will get lazy and not shift as much and just depend on roll on power of my r6. I can't really do that on the 250, so it's back to business as usual of gear relative to speed.

Don't be hard on yourself. There are so many variants of downshifting while braking (even from the pro's). As long as it's not causing problems, your smooth about it and reaching your goals, who cares...
csmith12 is offline   Reply With Quote


3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
Old July 14th, 2015, 01:25 PM   #4
akima
Nooblet
 
akima's Avatar
 
Name: Akima
Location: England
Join Date: Jul 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250R FI

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '13
Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
Don't be hard on yourself. There are so many variants of downshifting while braking (even from the pro's). As long as it's not causing problems, your smooth about it and reaching your goals, who cares...
Thanks for the pep talk

It doesn't seem to be causing me any problems and I can apply my method of braking and down-shifting smoothly. It just feels like I have to use a lot more road to slow down than I'd like to. After I've finished my braking I have to then have some extra road remaining before I hit the corner to do the final down-shifting. It just feels a bit rubbish!

I'm pretty sure my fat winter gloves which bind my fingers together don't help. Maybe I'll pickup some better gloves and work on my technique.

I think I read a post by Jason/rojoracing where he said he brakes and downshifts while entering a corner in the lazy fashion by not-rev matching, but letting the clutch out slowly until the engine catches up with the wheels. I can do that, but it feels so mean on the bike!
__________________________________________________
akima is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 14th, 2015, 01:49 PM   #5
Suki2003
Ninjette Lurker
 
Name: Peter
Location: Pittsburgh,PA
Join Date: Jun 2014

Motorcycle(s): 2003 Ninja EX250 (Cafe, Naked, Wreckurrected)

Posts: 72
I voted as a Nooblet.. because my braking is what needs work. Hard braking. I shift fine when I'm coming to a stop or slowing for a turn, but know in a panic stop or harder braking I'd botch my shifts.
Suki2003 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 14th, 2015, 02:15 PM   #6
accumack
ninjette.org member
 
accumack's Avatar
 
Name: jim
Location: texas currently in Temecula Valley CA
Join Date: May 2013

Motorcycle(s): honda crf230l & 2013 ninja 300se wife has Honda crf230l & honda cbr250r repsol

Posts: 222
It becomes 2nd nature after a while. Practice grasshopper practice!
accumack is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 14th, 2015, 02:16 PM   #7
jkv45
Rev Limiter
 
jkv45's Avatar
 
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013

Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suki2003 View Post
I voted as a Nooblet.. because my braking is what needs work. Hard braking. I shift fine when I'm coming to a stop or slowing for a turn, but know in a panic stop or harder braking I'd botch my shifts.
In a "panic" stop don't worry about downshifting - just concentrate on braking. And don't refer to it as a "panic" stop - an "emergency" stop is better.

If you "panic" you lose hope of having a good outcome, and picture a bad one. That heads you down the path of either "freezing" or target-fixating.

Always give yourself instructions in terms of a positive ("avoid the pothole") and never in terms of a negative ("don't hit the pothole").
jkv45 is offline   Reply With Quote


3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
Old July 14th, 2015, 04:16 PM   #8
Supernam
ninjette.org member
 
Supernam's Avatar
 
Name: Nam
Location: Toronto
Join Date: Jul 2015

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300

Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
In a "panic" stop don't worry about downshifting - just concentrate on braking. And don't refer to it as a "panic" stop - an "emergency" stop is better.

If you "panic" you lose hope of having a good outcome, and picture a bad one. That heads you down the path of either "freezing" or target-fixating.

Always give yourself instructions in terms of a positive ("avoid the pothole") and never in terms of a negative ("don't hit the pothole").
You should practice in a emergency stop to pull in the clutch and stomp down on the shifter to 1st gear and braking at the same time because sometimes when you are at a near stop you need to go again to move again to get out of the way of another car/obstacle that isn't expecting you to be there.
Supernam is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 14th, 2015, 04:26 PM   #9
"A"
vampire
 
Name: A
Location: IT
Join Date: Feb 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2 many 2 list

Posts: A lot.
Brakes, who needs them, they only slow you down.
--Snuffy Smith
"A" is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 14th, 2015, 04:27 PM   #10
dcj13
Participant
 
dcj13's Avatar
 
Name: Dave
Location: South of Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2012

Motorcycle(s): '94 K75 std

Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Aug '15
Quote:
Originally Posted by accumack View Post
It becomes 2nd nature after a while. Practice grasshopper practice!
Been licensed for 13 years. Never really thought about it...

Make it second nature! Practice by chewing gum and walking at the same time.
dcj13 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 14th, 2015, 04:59 PM   #11
jkv45
Rev Limiter
 
jkv45's Avatar
 
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013

Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernam View Post
You should practice in a emergency stop to pull in the clutch and stomp down on the shifter to 1st gear and braking at the same time because sometimes when you are at a near stop you need to go again to move again to get out of the way of another car/obstacle that isn't expecting you to be there.
I don't agree with that.

You make a decision - either stop or avoid. If you choose stop, you need 100% of your concentration focused on stopping. If you choose avoid, then you need 100% of your concentration on finding the best way around.

Adding in downshifting to either action complicates things too much (mostly mentally), and dropping numerous gears with the clutch in will give you a sharp lock-up of the rear when you let it out - and that's not going to help you in any way.
jkv45 is offline   Reply With Quote


2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
Old July 14th, 2015, 05:08 PM   #12
CC Cowboy
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
CC Cowboy's Avatar
 
Name: Whodat
Location: Ware Is.,MA
Join Date: Jan 2009

Motorcycle(s): I pass the wind!

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Mar '13, Jun '14
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcj13 View Post
Been licensed for 13 years. Never really thought about it...

Make it second nature! Practice by chewing gum and walking at the same time.
Which way do you walk?
__________________________________________________
If everything seems under control; you're just not going fast enough!
CC Cowboy is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 14th, 2015, 07:59 PM   #13
Motofool
Daily Ninjette rider
 
Motofool's Avatar
 
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by akima View Post
....... Right now, I tend to drop one gear before I start my heavy braking, then do my braking and then down shift some more after the braking (until the revs are where I want them), then take the corner (or deal with whatever it is that causes me to brake so hard).
If your front brake's lever is adjusted to your fingers and natural angle of the wrist, you could try braking and operating the throttle simultaneously by keeping index and middle fingers on the lever and wrapping the handle with thumb, ring and pinky.

The advantage of that is that you have a finest control on the throttle by using the lever as a reference for your wrist.

Try practicing that in a safe environment, even with heavy gloves: it is just good every day motorcycling skill.

This thread has many good points:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99060

I like using the braking effect of my engine combined with my front brake for any non-emergency slow-downs or stops.
Downshifting and engine brake are not necessarily the same thing.
__________________________________________________
Motofool
.................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly
"Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí
Motofool is offline   Reply With Quote


2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
Old July 14th, 2015, 08:14 PM   #14
shortyg83
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Greg
Location: carbondale pa
Join Date: Jul 2015

Motorcycle(s): 2011 ninja 250r

Posts: 19
I normally engine brake in whatever gear I am currently in, then clutch in to a stop completely while clutch in and braking. Occasionally with traffic I downshift instead of just engine braking in current gear. That way if I need to pull away for any reason I will be in a lower gear to do so.
shortyg83 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 14th, 2015, 08:34 PM   #15
Sirref
Private Joker
 
Sirref's Avatar
 
Name: Ben
Location: Towson, MD
Join Date: Nov 2012

Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin"

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Mar '14
I find it to be second nature, then again I learned how to do it heel-toe in a car. That was hell to learn in comparison. On a bike it's more of a wrist movement and becomes second nature quickly with dedicated practice, in a car you have to concentrate on it for a lot longer to get it right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akima View Post
I think I read a post by Jason/rojoracing where he said he brakes and downshifts while entering a corner in the lazy fashion by not-rev matching, but letting the clutch out slowly until the engine catches up with the wheels. I can do that, but it feels so mean on the bike!
That's because it is, but the clutch can take it. Wet clutches are great

with the engine off try using your brake lever with the tips of your fingers and allow yourself some flex to be able to move your wrist. Then work on pulling your wrist back a bit to simulate the throttle blip, do this for a bit and it should feel pretty natural. Then go into a parking lot and practice it with the engine on, 2nd-1st is the hardest so try 3rd-2nd. Hopefully you'll be comfortable with it within a few hours
__________________________________________________
I see you over there seeing me, do you see the me I think you see?
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/signaturepics/sigpic12146_1.gif
Sirref is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 14th, 2015, 08:41 PM   #16
Supernam
ninjette.org member
 
Supernam's Avatar
 
Name: Nam
Location: Toronto
Join Date: Jul 2015

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300

Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
I don't agree with that.

You make a decision - either stop or avoid. If you choose stop, you need 100% of your concentration focused on stopping. If you choose avoid, then you need 100% of your concentration on finding the best way around.

Adding in downshifting to either action complicates things too much (mostly mentally), and dropping numerous gears with the clutch in will give you a sharp lock-up of the rear when you let it out - and that's not going to help you in any way.
I agree with what you are saying. What I meant was if you've decided you're going to stop, braking and downshifting at the same time is best because after you've come to a complete stop or a near stop you may be in the middle of an intersection where you're still not safe. This will not lock up your rear tire and you will be in the right gear to get going again. This was taught to me by the instructors when I took the safety riding course. This skill is not hard to learn as many others have said so you might as well learn it.
Supernam is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old July 15th, 2015, 02:06 AM   #17
akima
Nooblet
 
akima's Avatar
 
Name: Akima
Location: England
Join Date: Jul 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250R FI

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
If your front brake's lever is adjusted to your fingers and natural angle of the wrist, you could try braking and operating the throttle simultaneously by keeping index and middle fingers on the lever and wrapping the handle with thumb, ring and pinky.
I actually do that already! I pretty much always have my front lever covered. It's something I picked up from you a while back. It helps give extra feel to where the throttle is positioned and it helps me get on the brakes more quickly when I need to (don't worry - I'm not prone to snapping on the brakes - except for that one time with that squirrel).

So I can comfortably completely close the throttle while applying the front brake. What I cannot do (at this moment) is blip the throttle open as a shift while braking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
Thanks! I'll give that a read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirref View Post
with the engine off try using your brake lever with the tips of your fingers and allow yourself some flex to be able to move your wrist. Then work on pulling your wrist back a bit to simulate the throttle blip, do this for a bit and it should feel pretty natural. Then go into a parking lot and practice it with the engine on, 2nd-1st is the hardest so try 3rd-2nd. Hopefully you'll be comfortable with it within a few hours
That's a good idea, thanks. I'll do that.


* dreams of one day changing her vote to "I'm pro" *
__________________________________________________
akima is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 15th, 2015, 06:51 AM   #18
jkv45
Rev Limiter
 
jkv45's Avatar
 
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013

Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernam View Post
I agree with what you are saying. What I meant was if you've decided you're going to stop, braking and downshifting at the same time is best because after you've come to a complete stop or a near stop you may be in the middle of an intersection where you're still not safe. This will not lock up your rear tire and you will be in the right gear to get going again. This was taught to me by the instructors when I took the safety riding course. This skill is not hard to learn as many others have said so you might as well learn it.
That's just good riding technique. Being in the right gear for your speed so you can accelerate if needed is a good idea.

But we are talking about efficient emergency stopping, and downshifting (you said to "stomp down on the shifter" all the way to 1st gear while braking hard) isn't part of that. Emergency braking assumes there is no other option than stopping short of an obstacle. Once you fully commit to making a complete stop as your only option, you need to do it in the most efficient way possible - and that doesn't include downshifting.
jkv45 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 15th, 2015, 07:03 AM   #19
johncrist1988
ninjette.org member
 
johncrist1988's Avatar
 
Name: John
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Join Date: Apr 2015

Motorcycle(s): 2006 EX250-F "Sheldon" (Sold), 2010 Ninja 250R "Zeke"

Posts: 129
I've been practicing my stops on my way to work and back as well and trying to get it down to a perfected science hasn't happened yet.

My practice is to come somewhat near the sign and start a clutchless downshift (at the appropriate speeds). My right hand has my thumb and index finger on throttle duty and the rest of my fingers on the front brake. I'll apply pressure to the front and rear brake while clutchless downshifting through the gears until I hit 1st, and then I'll pull in the clutch because at that point I'm mostly complete with my stop.

I've found that my braking distance has shortened considerably compared to braking without using engine braking. The part I'm trying to perfect is 1) making it second nature and 2) getting much much closer to the stop sign before I initiate this procedure, because as is I'm coasting a bit through some of the gears and I know I don't have to be.
johncrist1988 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 15th, 2015, 07:25 AM   #20
Rogue
Hooligan
 
Rogue's Avatar
 
Name: Robin
Location: Central Iowa
Join Date: Jun 2013

Motorcycle(s): 2013 Ninja EX300

Posts: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by accumack View Post
It becomes 2nd nature after a while. Practice grasshopper practice!
^^ This!

I learned to do this early on, but as @cbinker can attest, my rider coach is not exactly easy on his pupils.
__________________________________________________


Qui patiens est, teres. Teres est, ieiunare. | Twitter: @Rogue_300
Rogue is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 15th, 2015, 08:41 AM   #21
spooph
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
spooph's Avatar
 
Name: Spooph
Location: Golden, CO
Join Date: Jul 2010

Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250R

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '15

Link to original page on YouTube.

Just watch from 0:13-0:19

What helped me figure this out was to isolate the braking fingers from the throttle grip fingers. This is also why I chopped my stock levers. The long lever would pinch the fingers on the throttle, in between the throttle and lever, and make it difficult and painful to twist the throttle to rev match/downshift.

This is very similar to trigger finger control when shooting a gun - mentioning in case this is something you do.

Really good suggestions up top, so I won't repeat them.

__________________________________________________

My therapist has 2 wheels and a seat.
If you are ever in doubt to my tone, please refer to my avatar.
spooph is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old July 15th, 2015, 09:04 AM   #22
csmith12
The Corner Whisperer
 
csmith12's Avatar
 
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track)

Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
Quote:
Originally Posted by akima View Post
It doesn't seem to be causing me any problems and I can apply my method of braking and down-shifting smoothly. It just feels like I have to use a lot more road to slow down than I'd like to. After I've finished my braking I have to then have some extra road remaining before I hit the corner to do the final down-shifting. It just feels a bit rubbish!
Ah... So you have two points. Where the brakes come on & where you turn the bike. So you hit the brakes, downshift for the corner, and still have road left over before the corner right? See here

I wrote that with track riders in mind but it can be applied to the street with quite a bit of conservation applied. And speaking of conservation... If I understand your question properly, I don't really see much problem with what you're doing. That extra road at the end of the braking zone is a buffer to "screw it up in" without all the extra risks that comes from cornering. Although, too much buffer space can be bad, too little buffer space is also bad. Getting to where the brakes go off just as we turn in, is many rider's goal. This is harder to do on surface streets without intimate knowledge of the road your riding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akima View Post
I'm pretty sure my fat winter gloves which bind my fingers together don't help. Maybe I'll pickup some better gloves and work on my technique.
Feel is important right?!?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by akima View Post
I think I read a post by Jason/rojoracing where he said he brakes and downshifts while entering a corner in the lazy fashion by not-rev matching, but letting the clutch out slowly until the engine catches up with the wheels. I can do that, but it feels so mean on the bike!
We do this in the dirt ALL the time. The bikes love it when you ride them in anger.
csmith12 is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old July 15th, 2015, 10:47 AM   #23
akima
Nooblet
 
akima's Avatar
 
Name: Akima
Location: England
Join Date: Jul 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250R FI

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '13
I've realised I worded my poll badly so it's not going to give me the info I wanted (not that it matters that much, as I'm not competing... just curious).

I wasn't trying to find out if people could pull the clutch all the way in, brake and down-shift. That's easy - even for a first-day on two wheels nooblet. I was trying to find out if people could properly down-shift (blipping, rev-matching and clutch pretty much constantly engaged) while braking.

As a side note: I think @jkv45 is right on the mark with his recommendation about shifting while emergency braking. If I decide I need to stop very fast to avoid hitting something very hard, then I do not give two flying f***s about shifting. The fact I am emergency braking means I have already failed the more important task of pre-emptively avoiding a potential incident and right now I'm seconds away from hitting something fast and hard (which probably means serious injury or death). If I get into that kind of situation (has happened), every ounce of my being is devoted to my decision to stop as quickly as possible, shaving as much speed off as possible and all the while keeping tyre side down.

I think if you've got enough time and attention left that you can brake and down shift, then it's not an emergency it's just a manoeuvre.

Also: love your comment about not calling it "panic braking" @jkv45. So true. Form follows thought. You think "panic brake" you panic. You think "emergency brake", you treat it like an emergency (something that requires your full attention).

The stuff I'm talking about in this thread (as @csmith12 has just pointed out) doesn't have much to do with emergency situations and is arguably actually not even that relevant to street riding. I already ride much faster than pretty much every vehicle I encounter on the road. I just recently recognised that my lack of ability to brake while down-shifting (clutch engaged) is slowing me down... which on the street shouldn't be that much concern! (but it's fun going fast) (safely!!).
__________________________________________________
akima is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old July 15th, 2015, 02:50 PM   #24
choneofakind
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: .
Location: .
Join Date: Feb 2011

Motorcycle(s): .

Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14
Yepp, can do it in my car too. Doesn't matter if it's 1 gear drop or 3...

Just keep practicing, get a feel for the blip needed, and it will become second nature.
choneofakind is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 15th, 2015, 03:14 PM   #25
Motofool
Daily Ninjette rider
 
Motofool's Avatar
 
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by akima View Post
...... So I can comfortably completely close the throttle while applying the front brake. What I cannot do (at this moment) is blip the throttle open as a shift while braking.
I see.
It may be related to the size of your hand and forearm.
I have big hands and long arms and find it very easy to do.

Consider that properly blipping to match rpm's does not take a lot of angular rotation of the handle.

This may be a temporary palliative:
If the throttle is kept partially open while applying brake, the engine is then under load because it is fighting the decreasing speed of the bike and as soon as you apply the clutch, the engine rpm's increase and less wrist movement is needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akima View Post
Thanks! I'll give that a read.
You are welcome

Carefully study the timing and hand movements shown in the video of that thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akima View Post
........ I just recently recognised that my lack of ability to brake while down-shifting (clutch engaged) is slowing me down... which on the street shouldn't be that much concern! (but it's fun going fast) (safely!!).
Your difficulty is not a terrible one for street riding, but, IMHO, it may become a mental barrier rather than a physical one.
Doing it simultaneously and automatically is safer and, again, a good skill that all proficient rider should try to master.

I believe it is safer because all sequence of control that becomes precise, smooth and automatic liberates your attention to be focused on the real danger: traffic.

This remarkable quote from our mutual friend is a good summary of the reasons that should push us to tireless improve in order to achieve graceful riding.

"To me... It's a state of mind before you even get on the bike. A reminder to NOT rush anything, ride beyond my comfort, to relax and flow. ie.. to ride "Gracefully". And fyi... not rushing doesn't mean you can't perform the action quickly.

To think of it in a different way... You can only ride as fast as your mind can process what is going on and be able to pre-emptively know for 99% sure what the outcome will be. Once a rider has ran out of that ability to know, they are riding fast to be riding fast vs. riding slow to go fast." - csmith12


__________________________________________________
Motofool
.................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly
"Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí
Motofool is offline   Reply With Quote


2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
Old July 15th, 2015, 03:42 PM   #26
Skullz
ninjette.org guru
 
Skullz's Avatar
 
Name: Ray
Location: 48162
Join Date: Aug 2013

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Ninja 250

Posts: 451
Once you learn how to blip the throttle and hit the downshift lever you'll get used to it pretty quick and then before you realize it you'll do it all the time.
Skullz is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 16th, 2015, 12:36 PM   #27
akima
Nooblet
 
akima's Avatar
 
Name: Akima
Location: England
Join Date: Jul 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250R FI

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullz View Post
Once you learn how to blip the throttle and hit the downshift lever you'll get used to it pretty quick and then before you realize it you'll do it all the time.
I can do that. Just can't do it while braking.

I noticed today that my hands are sometimes quite rigid. That's probably a big part of why I can't do it.
__________________________________________________
akima is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 16th, 2015, 01:06 PM   #28
csmith12
The Corner Whisperer
 
csmith12's Avatar
 
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track)

Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
When learning to blip, you need to start with the controls and the angle of your hand while riding. Some adjustment may been needed.

During braking and downshifting, your bp is different than cornering. Try to angle the controls in a straight line as your wrist while in your braking bp for optimum braking power with two fingers, maximum reach and allow the range of motion to perform the throttle movement needed. The 250/300 needs a bit more twist than a i4 supersport.

Once you learn to slide your fingers over the lever while maintaining pressure for effective braking (this is the hard part), the throttle movement becomes super easy. Once the basic movements are learned the next thing will be to learn to brake harder and harder while timing the downshifts at just the right speed.

Your common errors will be the front of the bike pogoing up and down from varied lever pressure and downshifting too early and using the engine as a brake.

Pro Tip: Adjust your clutch lever to where the friction zone is near the end of the lever travel. We adjust them this way so you don't have to pull the clutch lever so far in during the blip. You only want to pull the clutch just far enough to get well into the friction zone, so the throttle rev does not surge the bike forward.
csmith12 is offline   Reply With Quote


2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
Old July 16th, 2015, 01:50 PM   #29
akima
Nooblet
 
akima's Avatar
 
Name: Akima
Location: England
Join Date: Jul 2011

Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250R FI

Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '13
Thanks Chris!

Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
Once you learn to slide your fingers over the lever while maintaining pressure for effective braking (this is the hard part), the throttle movement becomes super easy.
^ that really stood out of your post.
__________________________________________________
akima is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 16th, 2015, 02:41 PM   #30
choneofakind
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: .
Location: .
Join Date: Feb 2011

Motorcycle(s): .

Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14
^^^it's a curling motion with your fingers, combined with a quick rotation of the wrist.

Once you get it, you can do it without thought and all the time. You can even practice with blipping with a harder throttle twist to gain rpm's faster and shorten the overall downshift time. You may find it's easier to practice at higher RPM's (above 8k) vs doing it at lower engine speeds. The engine is more responsive there.
choneofakind is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old July 16th, 2015, 05:29 PM   #31
alex.s
wat
 
alex.s's Avatar
 
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009

Motorcycle(s): wat

Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
just go brap brapy with the buzz clicky buzz clicky
__________________________________________________
alex.s is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 26th, 2015, 10:25 PM   #32
Fastway Racing
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Mike
Location: Atlanta, GA
Join Date: Jun 2015

Motorcycle(s): LOTS! 14 -675R Daytona, 13 ZX6R, 14 GSXR 1000, 13 GSXR 600, 07 SV650, 14 300 Ninja, 13 300 Ninja

Posts: 47
If you still cant get the hang of it replace the clutch with a slipper clutch, lighten the rear rotor by milling most of it away and you too will be drifting the back end sideways will downshifting into your favorite stop sign corners!
Fastway Racing is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 27th, 2015, 08:16 AM   #33
spooph
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
spooph's Avatar
 
Name: Spooph
Location: Golden, CO
Join Date: Jul 2010

Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250R

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastway Racing View Post
If you still cant get the hang of it replace the clutch with a slipper clutch, lighten the rear rotor by milling most of it away and you too will be drifting the back end sideways will downshifting into your favorite stop sign corners!
__________________________________________________

My therapist has 2 wheels and a seat.
If you are ever in doubt to my tone, please refer to my avatar.
spooph is offline   Reply With Quote


Old July 28th, 2015, 03:42 PM   #34
TheJeepGuy
ninjette.org member
 
TheJeepGuy's Avatar
 
Name: Jaxon
Location: Lasalle co, IL
Join Date: Jul 2015

Motorcycle(s): TRX 450 R Quad, no street

Posts: 20
Lots of similarities in dirt and street

I've ridden street bikes all of 2 times but this is super natural to me as I've track and trail ridden everything from a blaster 200 to a TRX700XX and almost everything in between, only thing left on my bucket list is quadzilla.
TheJeepGuy is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[crash.net - MotoGP] - Dovizioso: I could comfortably stay with Pedrosa Ninjette Newsbot Motorcycling News 0 July 6th, 2012 10:50 AM
[motorcyclistonline] - Traveling Comfortably on a Motorcycle | Love Hurts | Cranked Ninjette Newsbot Motorcycling News 0 January 31st, 2012 08:10 PM
[crash.net - WSBK] - WSS: Sofuoglu comfortably fastest in FP1 Ninjette Newsbot Motorcycling News 0 April 23rd, 2010 06:50 AM
[kropotkin thinks...] - Final Moto2 Test Jerez Day 1 - Elias Leads Comfortably Ninjette Newsbot Motorcycling News 0 March 27th, 2010 11:40 AM
[topix.net] - Uneasy riders comfortably turn to trikes Ninjette Newsbot Motorcycling News 0 January 25th, 2010 10:50 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Motorcycle Safety Foundation

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:55 AM.


remote server monitor
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Except where otherwise noted, all site contents are © Copyright 2021 ninjette.org, All rights reserved.