Staying Alive

[Verus Cidere]

Hey guys. If you've seen any posts I've had recently, you know I'm a motorcycling noob! I've only been riding for about 6 months, and I've put about 3500 miles on my baby, Fury.

I've known for a while that there are a whole lot of things that are dangerous about motorcycling, which is part of the fun. It can also be a bad thing obviously, so I'm wondering: For us noobs that flock to this site, what are good procedures to stay out of the way of the idiots in diesels that either don't see you or don't give a crap? What are good following distances? What are good ways to keep yourself out of major problems in heavy traffic?

I ask this because there've been 2 bikers at my high school who've been in accidents recently that weren't their fault at all. One was leaving the parking lot after school and got plowed over by an idiot who ran a red light. He got pretty badly beat up (partially because he didn't have his helmet on right and it went flying). The other got cut off really close in the same basic situation, but allready on the road. His hands/arms are covered in road rash. Both bikes are totalled. I don't wanna end up being scraped up off of the pavement, so I need some ideas from people who've been doing this longer. What do you suggest?

[Sound Wave]

http://www.daytonamotorcycletraining...18-wheeler.htm

[Sound Wave]

oh.... here is the hawaii state motorcycle manual. it has all the info you asked about. it is on page 12-20 in the manual. pdf page 29-37

click here

michael, do you have your license? did you take the msf course? just curious, because this is stuff they teach in the msf course and stuff you need to know to pass the written portion of the license... in hawaii anyways.

edit: basically you are supposed to ride like you are invisible. assume that no one can see you... because a lot of times, they don't. either you are in their blind spot, or they are too busy yakking on the cel phone to notice you.

have a buffer lane if possible. if you need to ride in a lane next to a car, stay out of their blind spot. either stay behind them or get ahead of them as soon as possible. there is a lot more stuff.

if you get the book "profiecient motorcycling" by david hough, he really covers that stuff good.

[Verus Cidere]

Yeah I took the MSF course, and I was taught those things. My idea was partially to get ideas for scenarios rather than just general safety. I guess the fact that they call it the basic rider course, and the fact that they have an experienced rider course, made me think there was a lot more to it?

Like I said, I just don't wanna end up being scraped up off the pavement. I figured there were some things you have to live through to be ready for, or you have to hear from someone else who had. One of my MSF rider coaches was a motorcycle cop. He told a story about a time when he went through the side of a van because she didn't see him. He had lights and sirens going, in the front of a funeral procession! That, coupled with the two guys from my school makes me want to have specific things to look for, beside the general safety stuff. I guess, maybe that stuff doesn't help?

Then again, maybe I just got scared from those two accidents that happened here. I'm just trying to keep myself and Fury intact. Is it really all about those basic things? If so, what is the advanced rider course for?

[kkim]

It's all about being aware. The best way to learn is through experience, however you don't want to experience them first hand. I suggest you pick some books to read on motorcycle safety. I mean motorcycle safety, not sport riding techniques type of books.

I highly recommend "More Proficient Motorcycling" by David Hough.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...kstorenow57-20

some other books here...
http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcyc...ycle-books.htm

You need to always be in the proper frame of mind each and every time you get on your bike. Ride defensively and position yourself in the most advantageous location to insure your safety. Constant vigilance is crucial.

[Viper-Byte]

I usually position myself in the path where the wheels of vehicles most commonly are and towards the centre line, this way I am directly infront of the driver behind, so they are more likely to see me and if the vehicle in front brakes all of a sudden, I can easily slide past them up the middle of the road if I can't brake fast enough (depending on when other hazards of course.) but then I always leave enough room to be able to.

Just riding as though you are not visible, there are ofter times where I think someone was going to try and cut me off at an intersection, but by assuming they didn't see me, I am able to react intime.

[CC Cowboy]

I have a rule when riding with other bikes or behind cars. Always ride in their mirrors. I ride where I can look into their mirror and see the rider or driver's face. I can tell if they see me and if they are paying attention.

I always have an escape plan in case something happens in front of who I am following.

I try to never ride (or drive) behind a van, truck, or SUV that I can't see around. I always want to know what is happening up the road.

I always look both ways when entering an intersection or even train tracks. Too many people run lights and stop signs.

I always look for people pulling out of driveways, parking lots, or any other place on the sides of the road with their head in their ass, I mean not looking before they pull out.

Always expect the worst and have an escape plan.

Try to ride as much as you can out in the country where there are good roads and little or no traffic. It is much more fun than dealing with the idiots.

[BlueTyke]

Say it with me "Everyone is out to get me." Check, check again, and check check again...

[ninjabrewer]

Originally Posted by Sound Wave

oh....
have a buffer lane if possible. if you need to ride in a lane next to a car, stay out of their blind spot. either stay behind them or get ahead of them as soon as possible. there is a lot more stuff.

My first ride into Honolulu, I almost bought it from some idiot who didn't check his blind spot, luckily the lane to my left was empty.
Keep your eyes constantly moving, looking around in front of you, esp. if you are on a multi-lane highway. I am always checking my mirrors, I have been surprised too many times by some lead footed, Richard Petty wannabe, either a cager or another rider.

don't know of anything else that can be said, everybody else has already covered it.

nb

[Verus Cidere]

Thanks guys. I'll keep that stuff in mind. I'll also go find my MSF book and re-read it for that good info. Thanks again.

[Viper-Byte]

I just went for a ride in the local twisties and there were cops promoting safer riding.

They had a survey which I filled out and am in the draw for $500 free gear and got some informational DVDs and a magazine

[Sound Wave]

what sort of questions were they asking?

[birdy]

With all the twisties where I live, I've learned to stay off the yellow line and don't cut left hand curves tight, as it seems half the cars coming the other way cross the double yellow line. Also remember if your on the line and leaned over, your head and shoulders are OVER the line. When I moved to Virginia from western Kansas it took me a while to get used to the different riding conditions. Back home the roads were straight as an arrow and you could see any oncoming traffic well in the distance. The biggest problem was the slew of cattle trucks always on the road and the occasional cow turd flying out the sides of the truck!

[OldGuy]

Michael just about all that can be said is up above. Hough's book is a great read. Just be sure it's the Second Edition (Copy Right 2008) not his first book, which is great, the new one has some new things (duh).

I don't know if you also drive a cage or the Ninja is your only set of wheels but the biggest difference between the two is what's between you ears - your mind set. In the car you can "drift off and not be paying attention" but on the bike every minute, even when you are at a dead stop at a light, your mind has to be engaged in only one activity - who and what is around me, how could they hurt me, and how can I prevent it.

Just be smart and have confidence.

[OldGuy]

Originally Posted by birdy

The biggest problem was the slew of cattle trucks always on the road and the occasional cow turd flying out the sides of the truck!

Yea but if they were fresh at least they were soft

[Sailariel]

I totally agree with EVERYONE`S reply. Just want to add a few things. Do not pretend to be a bicycle, because if you do, you are adding the hazard of being "Doored" in city traffic. Use your whole lane. Also get onto the habit of watching people`s front wheels. When you see a cager using his directional light, only assume that the directional light works--frequently it has nothing to do with the direction he/she is intending to take. Finally, chill out, you don`t have to be a Mike Hailwood or John Surtees (I`m dating myself) Take it easy and enjoy the ride. Been riding 50 years and really still love it like it was day one.

[Verus Cidere]

Thanks for the watching the front wheel idea. That's one I've never heard before. I guess the whole "have confidence" thing got thrown off a bit when my 2 friends got plowed over. They were what I'd call overconfident (aka "I don't need to wear gear, 'cause I'm not gonna get in an accident".) I don't know why, but I've always thought it's a little safer not to have too much confidence. Also, just to let you guys know, I was the BOTTOM of my MSF class. I'm really surprised I passed (I was the only one in the class to drop a bike). I guess I figure since I didn't do perfectly, I have more work to do, and that's done better with you guys help. Thanks a million.

[miks]

Originally Posted by BlueTyke

Say it with me "Everyone is out to get me." Check, check again, and check check again...

All this checking just made me think of this song;

"chickity-check yo self before you wreck yo self" - Ice Cube

[Sound Wave]

Originally Posted by Verus Cidere

Thanks for the watching the front wheel idea. That's one I've never heard before..

page 108 in "proficient motorcycling" by david hough.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Verus Cidere

They were what I'd call overconfident (aka "I don't need to wear gear, 'cause I'm not gonna get in an accident".)

classic squid mentality. don't be one.

[Verus Cidere]

Originally Posted by kkim

classic squid mentality. don't be one.

Definitely not. So what would you guys say is the proper amount of confidence before it becomes stupidity?

[OldGuy]

Michael I'd say there is a difference between confidence and cocky.

The day you swing a leg over your bike without doing the basic TCLOCS (at least look to see if there is a puddle under the bike, the tires are round all the way around, and the brake and turn signals work) or you are waiting to enter the road and the thought that comes to mind is "I can beat that guy" - you're getting cocky.

I haven't got that many miles as a motorcyclist but I've probably got 17,000 - 18,000 on a bicycle on the road in the last eight years and trust me, your head has to be on a swivel.

Just keeping thinking and you will be fine.

[Alex]

Have you seen this sticky thread at the top of the General section yet? I've tried to link to those threads that give advice I thought was important for new riders. If you see any other threads that you'd recommend to link, just let me know.

[sugarbear]

+1000 on "Proficient Motorcycling" by David Hough.
Also, if you get a chance to watch the "Street Smarts" videos, good stuff there. I have learned a ton from that series. Good thing to do during the winter and/or a rainy day to keep your motorcycle mind-set in top gear!

[BlueTyke]

Originally Posted by miks

All this checking just made me think of this song;

"chickity-check yo self before you wreck yo self" - Ice Cube

LOL! Thats great! You know I never thought about that until you brought that it up!

OP: Another thing I was reminded of when you mentioned the gear and not wearing it because of over confidence... This is another thing I learned "It is not IF it is WHEN" hince it is all gear all the time. "I love the skin I am in"

[miks]

Originally Posted by BlueTyke

LOL! Thats great! You know I never thought about that until you brought that it up!

OP: Another thing I was reminded of when you mentioned the gear and not wearing it because of over confidence... This is another thing I learned "It is not IF it is WHEN" hince it is all gear all the time. "I love the skin I am in"

haha, I also love my skull the shape it is!

[BlueTyke]

There is that too!