ninjette.org

Go Back   ninjette.org > General > Ninjettes At Speed

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 2nd, 2020, 11:04 PM   #1
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Honda RS250R season maintenance?

Anyone raced Honda RS250R?

These things have dropped in price to be really attractive. l know the official maintenance schedule of ring, pistons, barrels, crank, bearings, etc. And NLA parts are no big deal. I'll have bespoke one-off parts custom-made as neccessary. There are many items that can be made better than OEM nowadays.

What's actual maintenance and parts required over course of annual season with 40-50 days at track with 7-10 days racing? Thx


Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; May 3rd, 2020 at 06:54 AM.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote




Old May 3rd, 2020, 04:28 PM   #2
subxero
dirty boy
 
subxero's Avatar
 
Name: Joe
Location: Johnstown, PA
Join Date: Sep 2012

Motorcycle(s): I don't even know anymore??

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Apr '14
I would think it would be very dependent on how you ride it.

What do they recommend for rings, piston and crank out of curiosity?
__________________________________________________
I love the smell of burning pre-mix in the morning

I don't think I'm a lot dumber than you thought that I think that I thought I was once.
subxero is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 3rd, 2020, 05:23 PM   #3
Zaph42
ninjette.org sage
 
Zaph42's Avatar
 
Name: John
Location: Appleton, WI
Join Date: Apr 2015

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 (race), Ninja 1000 (road)

Posts: 504
If I had that I think I'd ride it 1 day a year to enjoy it at the track, savor that day and it's memories, and then prep it for storage so I wouldn't have to rebuild it so much.

Maybe bring it to a couple of track days and just do one session per track day. Then ride a beater bike for other sessions. (which would be any other bike, hahah)
__________________________________________________
Ninja 300 - CCS Ultralight Thunderbike Racing
I want to "like" your post but I can't due to forum rules. Sorry.
Zaph42 is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old May 3rd, 2020, 10:25 PM   #4
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
I'm 5-sec off 250-record (street-based 4T) at Thunderhill, and don't think focusing too much more time on that in next 3-yrs is most effective for my training. When I renewed my season-pass in January, they suggested I do A-group since B is always full. But Ninjette will put me at bottom of A. I'm getting itch to beat up on litre-bikes in A-group this year. So RS250R with 100-lbs less weight (220-lbs) and triple power of my Ninjette will let me do that with shaving off 10-15sec/lap!

It also costs less than track-prepped litre-bike, although I'm planning on spending 2-3x that on maintenance and rebuilds. With modern coatings and metallurgy, I hope to extend durability significantly over what was available in '90s. One of my clients who builds artificial hearts with mag-lev motors uses an off-the-shelf diamond-like coating that's +5x more durable than Nikasil. That's very promising for bearing-surfaces and cylinder walls.

Maintenance-schedule for RS250R looks like this from service-manual:


Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; May 4th, 2020 at 06:50 AM.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old May 4th, 2020, 05:21 AM   #5
Zaph42
ninjette.org sage
 
Zaph42's Avatar
 
Name: John
Location: Appleton, WI
Join Date: Apr 2015

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 (race), Ninja 1000 (road)

Posts: 504
Those numbers look conservative. New pistons every 300 miles? You could probably get double that.

But if you really want to go this route you might try to get your hands on an extra engine to alternate while rebuilding. Maybe find one that needs work and start on it.
__________________________________________________
Ninja 300 - CCS Ultralight Thunderbike Racing
I want to "like" your post but I can't due to forum rules. Sorry.
Zaph42 is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old May 4th, 2020, 05:28 AM   #6
subxero
dirty boy
 
subxero's Avatar
 
Name: Joe
Location: Johnstown, PA
Join Date: Sep 2012

Motorcycle(s): I don't even know anymore??

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Apr '14
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
I'm 5-sec off 250-record (street-based 4T) at Thunderhill, and don't think focusing too much more time on that in next 3-yrs is most effective for my training. When I renewed my season-pass in January, there suggested I do A-group since B is always full. But Ninjette will put me at bottom of A. I'm getting itch to beat up on litre-bikes in A-group this year. So RS250R with 100-lbs less weight (220-lbs) and triple power of my Ninjette will let me do that with shaving off 10-15sec/lap!

It also costs less than track-prepped litre-bike, although I'm planning on sending 2-3x that on maintenance and rebuilds. With modern coatings and metallurgy, I hope to extend durability significantly over what was available in '90s. One of my clients who builds artificial hearts with mag-lev motors uses an off-the-shelf diamond-like coating that's +5x more durable than Nikasil. That's very promising for bearing-surfaces and cylinder walls.

Maintenance-schedule for RS250R looks like this from service-manual:

Wow every 500km for piston and rings, i guess i was hoping for at least 1000km How many miles/km do you tend to put on a bike for a track day and race?
__________________________________________________
I love the smell of burning pre-mix in the morning

I don't think I'm a lot dumber than you thought that I think that I thought I was once.
subxero is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 4th, 2020, 05:38 AM   #7
ducatiman
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
ducatiman's Avatar
 
Name: Gordon
Location: new york
Join Date: Sep 2009

Motorcycle(s): '95 DUCATI 900SS/SP '07 DUCATI SS800 '19 HONDA CBR650R

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
A time/money pit, ok if you are committed and accept the fact before going in.

The current low buy in is compensated for by intense upkeep/ongoing investment. Understandable being this a pure, focused racebike.
__________________________________________________
gordon@customcarbservices.com
Custom Carb Service
www.customcarbservices.com
ducatiman is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old May 4th, 2020, 06:38 AM   #8
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Quote:
Originally Posted by subxero View Post
Wow every 500km for piston and rings, i guess i was hoping for at least 1000km How many miles/km do you tend to put on a bike for a track day and race?
As Zaph42 mentioned, I could probably get twice that much. I put in 400-500km on 2-day practice trackday. About 100-150km on race weekends. Since I'm not running GP team trying to win each and every race, I don't need max-performance at every single outing.

Also changing to less racy configuration should extend durability quite a bit. Such as 2-ring pistons instead of 1-ring. Oil-formulations have improved significantly in past several decades, Motul 800 is way better than castor oil. Wheel-bearings with actual seals and grease instead of open for squirting oil in before each session. Having case-covers over dry-clutch basket should improve lifespan significantly (looks like margarine tub would do nicely).
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 4th, 2020, 06:49 AM   #9
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaph42 View Post
Those numbers look conservative. New pistons every 300 miles? You could probably get double that.

But if you really want to go this route you might try to get your hands on an extra engine to alternate while rebuilding. Maybe find one that needs work and start on it.
Good idea! This bike was designed with maintenance in mind. Cylinders, ring & piston replacement can be done with engine in place!

I'm looking at replacing engine with more durable model perhaps. Bored & stroked Banshee engines can get similar power and last tonnes longer. But... output-shaft and sprocket is on wrong side of engine!!!

I may go back to my custom-framed Banshee-powered racer idea. A KTM RC390 frame has almost similar geometry to RS250R (which is still more aggressive). Perhaps start with Banshee-powered RC390 while I build custom frame. Current Moto3 NSF250R is modern descendant with 22.5-degree rake and 47" wheelbase! Although that was more of replacement for RS125R.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 4th, 2020, 08:00 AM   #10
subxero
dirty boy
 
subxero's Avatar
 
Name: Joe
Location: Johnstown, PA
Join Date: Sep 2012

Motorcycle(s): I don't even know anymore??

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Apr '14
Rodger Allen at Wicked motorsports did a pretty sweet RZ/Banshee build with an R3

A good built banshee/RZ engine isn't gonna be super cheap either though. Just finding the engine itself is gonna cost some $$$$, then you are looking at a few $k to get it jacked up.
Attached Images
File Type: png Screen Shot 2020-05-04 at 10.56.45 AM.png (460.1 KB, 1 views)
File Type: png Screen Shot 2020-05-04 at 10.58.05 AM.png (47.8 KB, 0 views)
__________________________________________________
I love the smell of burning pre-mix in the morning

I don't think I'm a lot dumber than you thought that I think that I thought I was once.
subxero is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 4th, 2020, 03:12 PM   #11
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Nice thing about Banshee is aftermarket support. You can build an engine completely from aftermarket parts!

Converting street-bike into racer always carry over some compromises. Such as overbuilt frame for +350lb bike. When starting from ground-up clean-sheet design, you can have super light frame designed with 200-lb bike in mind. With 100bhp & 200lbs, I can build chromoly trellis frame that weighs ~15-20lbs depending upon whether I want it to last 5 or 10 years.

That's significant 50-lbs weight savings over street-bike frame. I can also build it with exact geometry I want. Probably 23-degree rake and 50-inch wheelbase, splitting difference between RC390 and NSF250R.

Here's interesting article about fine-tuning RS250R's frame to beat better-handling TZ250:
https://www.superbikeplanet.com/knif...s250-makeover/

If you can call "The existing steering head was cut off. A new one was designed from scratch, and welded in place" fine-tuning. They didn't say exactly which specs were modified to increase trail. This is typically done by reducing offset at triple-clamps. But this pulls front wheel backwards, reduces wheelbase and changes weight-distribution. So they probably relaxed rake-angle by fraction of degree to place front-wheel back in original location.

I want to get my hands on that Computrack software that Honda was using!

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; May 4th, 2020 at 07:54 PM.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 4th, 2020, 07:50 PM   #12
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducatiman View Post
A time/money pit, ok if you are committed and accept the fact before going in.

The current low buy in is compensated for by intense upkeep/ongoing investment. Understandable being this a pure, focused racebike.
yup! For levels of performance not achievable by any other 250,much less any other bike, I think it's worth it!!!

I wonder what electronic carburetors do? I suppose it's some sort of programmable injection system? A way to fine-tune fuel-map without removing carbs and re-jetting?
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 5th, 2020, 09:13 AM   #13
Zaph42
ninjette.org sage
 
Zaph42's Avatar
 
Name: John
Location: Appleton, WI
Join Date: Apr 2015

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 (race), Ninja 1000 (road)

Posts: 504
If you want some smoker goodness, what about a CR500 and work out something to put it in, Or just rework an AF chassis for the track and put a fairing on it. I've seen that done a few times with good results and the CR's are cheap and easy to rebuild.
__________________________________________________
Ninja 300 - CCS Ultralight Thunderbike Racing
I want to "like" your post but I can't due to forum rules. Sorry.
Zaph42 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 15th, 2020, 02:54 PM   #14
tgold
ninjette.org sage
 
Name: Timm
Location: West Seneca, NY
Join Date: Oct 2015

Motorcycle(s): 2006 1050 Speed Triple, 2010 250 Ninja racebike, YZF320RR? Racebike

Posts: 556
MOTM - Nov '15
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
I'm 5-sec off 250-record (street-based 4T) at Thunderhill, and don't think focusing too much more time on that in next 3-yrs is most effective for my training. When I renewed my season-pass in January, they suggested I do A-group since B is always full. But Ninjette will put me at bottom of A. I'm getting itch to beat up on litre-bikes in A-group this year. So RS250R with 100-lbs less weight (220-lbs) and triple power of my Ninjette will let me do that with shaving off 10-15sec/lap!

It also costs less than track-prepped litre-bike, although I'm planning on spending 2-3x that on maintenance and rebuilds. With modern coatings and metallurgy, I hope to extend durability significantly over what was available in '90s. One of my clients who builds artificial hearts with mag-lev motors uses an off-the-shelf diamond-like coating that's +5x more durable than Nikasil. That's very promising for bearing-surfaces and cylinder walls.

Maintenance-schedule for RS250R looks like this from service-manual:

These bikes are the ultimate combination of light weight and power. I've raced for a very long time, but when I rode an RS250 for a handful of laps it was sublime. But it was also as if the bike was saying to me the entire time: "Is that all you got buddy? You are boring me with your tiny balls." These bikes demand respect and they don't suffer ham-fisted technique well. Going faster than a liter bike on one of these is not simple or easy. They will highside you to the moon if you get greedy the with throttle at the wrong time and they won't warn you either. There are zero electronic riding aids on these bikes. And the high corner speed riding style needed for these bikes conflicts with the squaring off technique used on liter bikes, so that in itself will present you with some problems in getting around them at a track day.

Maintenance-wise, In order to extend the life of components you have to understand how hard you are riding it compared to how hard the pros rode it in a class like the old AMA Formula 2. But make no mistake about it, these are not cheap machines to run in any way, shape, or form. You can extend the life of components by understanding how to assess their condition but it's not as simple as putting DLC coating on all your parts either.
If you cheap out in the wrong way, these bikes will bite you hard when they break.

And a decent track-prepped Liter bike is going to be cheaper to buy and maintain. You might be able to buy an RS250 "Cheap" but at that price it's not going to be in good shape. You're going to have to buy a lot of very expensive parts and do a metric crap-ton of work to get it in good shape.

That's an RS250 in the photo but it's interesting that it has an NSR logo on it. The NSR is the production replica of the RS and it's a lot different bike. Still very cool, but easier to maintain and ride. Also a lot slower.

A 250 GP bike is an awesome bike and Yamaha's version, (the TZ250) is my dream bike. I'll buy one if/when my 401K is in super good shape or my little bit of Tesla stock goes to $4K a share!

But the bottom line is that it's unwise to think that an RS250 will be cheaper to run and you're not just going to hop on one and magically go faster. A newer liter bike with good electronic rider aids will make it easier, safer, and cheaper for you to go fast.
tgold is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 15th, 2020, 03:29 PM   #15
tgold
ninjette.org sage
 
Name: Timm
Location: West Seneca, NY
Join Date: Oct 2015

Motorcycle(s): 2006 1050 Speed Triple, 2010 250 Ninja racebike, YZF320RR? Racebike

Posts: 556
MOTM - Nov '15
DLC (Diamond-like Carbon) Coating could be very useful, but you can't simply coat your cylinder wall with it. The rings have to properly wear-in against the Nikasil in order to allow for good combustion pressure sealing. If you coat the cylinder with DLC you will not get that wearing-in to happen. The thickness of Nikasil if far more than the DLC coating that happens by Physical Vapor Deposition. This means that so if you removing the Nikasil and apply DLC directly to an aluminum cylinder wall, your cylinder will be too big for your pistons. There's no simple way to make up that thickness, which means that you'd have to get custom cylinders made ($$$$$!) And then you don't know if it'll even work. Also, if DLC gets too hot it will simply disappear. There are plenty of places in the engine where it can be applied, but you have to understand what it can and can't do. You will be experimenting with DLC, and if you get it wrong, you will get piston seizures that will put both you and your wallet in a world of hurt.
And the coatings themselves are not cheap. Sure, there are plenty of places that can do the DLC coating for you, but that doesn't mean that it'll work.
There are places in the engine where DLC can be very effective, but you have to do your homework.

Again, don't get me wrong, DLC is very cool. I've used it in a couple of applications and I think that it can do some amazing things in the right engine application. Experimentation is how we make progress but you should know the cost and the risks as much as possible before you do it.
tgold is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 15th, 2020, 03:33 PM   #16
tgold
ninjette.org sage
 
Name: Timm
Location: West Seneca, NY
Join Date: Oct 2015

Motorcycle(s): 2006 1050 Speed Triple, 2010 250 Ninja racebike, YZF320RR? Racebike

Posts: 556
MOTM - Nov '15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaph42 View Post
If you want some smoker goodness, what about a CR500 and work out something to put it in, Or just rework an AF chassis for the track and put a fairing on it. I've seen that done a few times with good results and the CR's are cheap and easy to rebuild.
I've seen this done. CR500 in an RS250 chassis. It vibrated so bad, it constantly broke parts. Not a great idea but people still try.
tgold is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 15th, 2020, 03:39 PM   #17
tgold
ninjette.org sage
 
Name: Timm
Location: West Seneca, NY
Join Date: Oct 2015

Motorcycle(s): 2006 1050 Speed Triple, 2010 250 Ninja racebike, YZF320RR? Racebike

Posts: 556
MOTM - Nov '15
Quote:
Originally Posted by subxero View Post
Rodger Allen at Wicked motorsports did a pretty sweet RZ/Banshee build with an R3

A good built banshee/RZ engine isn't gonna be super cheap either though. Just finding the engine itself is gonna cost some $$$$, then you are looking at a few $k to get it jacked up.
The R3 frame is crap for a 70+ hp bike. The motor would overwhelm the chassis. I went the opposite way. R3 motor in an FZR400 chassis in my garage:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FZR with R3 Motor.jpg (120.1 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg R3 RR C.jpg (54.0 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg 20200324_163133.jpg (124.6 KB, 2 views)
tgold is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old May 15th, 2020, 03:45 PM   #18
tgold
ninjette.org sage
 
Name: Timm
Location: West Seneca, NY
Join Date: Oct 2015

Motorcycle(s): 2006 1050 Speed Triple, 2010 250 Ninja racebike, YZF320RR? Racebike

Posts: 556
MOTM - Nov '15
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Anyone raced Honda RS250R?

These things have dropped in price to be really attractive. l know the official maintenance schedule of ring, pistons, barrels, crank, bearings, etc. And NLA parts are no big deal. I'll have bespoke one-off parts custom-made as neccessary. There are many items that can be made better than OEM nowadays.

What's actual maintenance and parts required over course of annual season with 40-50 days at track with 7-10 days racing? Thx

Oh yeah, I don't know what you're looking at where the price has dropped, but it ain't an RS250 and definitely not one in the shape of the one in the picture. Prices for an immaculate bike like that one are going up.
tgold is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 15th, 2020, 03:50 PM   #19
Zaph42
ninjette.org sage
 
Zaph42's Avatar
 
Name: John
Location: Appleton, WI
Join Date: Apr 2015

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 (race), Ninja 1000 (road)

Posts: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgold View Post
I've seen this done. CR500 in an RS250 chassis. It vibrated so bad, it constantly broke parts. Not a great idea but people still try.
What about leaving it in the AF chassis and reworking the rest of it for roadracing duty? Years back I saw these kits for converting 450 dirt bikes to road racing bikes and they got me real excited.

__________________________________________________
Ninja 300 - CCS Ultralight Thunderbike Racing
I want to "like" your post but I can't due to forum rules. Sorry.
Zaph42 is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old May 15th, 2020, 04:36 PM   #20
tgold
ninjette.org sage
 
Name: Timm
Location: West Seneca, NY
Join Date: Oct 2015

Motorcycle(s): 2006 1050 Speed Triple, 2010 250 Ninja racebike, YZF320RR? Racebike

Posts: 556
MOTM - Nov '15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaph42 View Post
What about leaving it in the AF chassis and reworking the rest of it for roadracing duty? Years back I saw these kits for converting 450 dirt bikes to road racing bikes and they got me real excited.

Yes, I'm still thinking about doing one of those. The vibration isn't nearly as bad as the CR500 though. My preference would be the Yamaha WR450f motor for durability & the chassis pimped out with all the right stuff.

However, I'm currently trying to buy a single cylinder Ducati (a Duc 999 twin motor with one lung removed) in a custom frame. About 60hp and 250lb!
tgold is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 16th, 2020, 11:14 PM   #21
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Thanks for info guys!

Let's clear up some naming-conventions so we're sure to be talking about same bikes:

1987-1999 NSR250R - street bike with lights and turn-signals. Gentlemen's agreement to restrict output to 45bhp. However, swapping out flash-cards in ECU gave it 60bhp. Not single shared part between this and race-bikes.

1985 RS250RW - factory race bike premiered
1986-2002 NSR250 - factory race bike
2003+ RS250RW - factory race bike - who knows why they changed name? Probably out of nostalgia

Honda info on RS250RW/NSR250 factory race bikes.

1985-2009 RS250R - production racer sold to privateers. Same bike as factory racer. Comes out of factory with 90bhp and with hot ECU in race-kit, it comes close to factory racer. With magnesium wheels stock. Honda had patent on common airbox for V-engine carbs, which forced Yamaha to use less efficient individual airboxes on their TZ.



Particular bike I'm looking at is 1999 RS250R factory production racer. This NX5 generation got single-sided swingarm and upside-down fork like NSR250 factory race bikes.



I got some good info from guy that actually races these things (referred by seller of this bike). Along with my coach who raced TZ250 professionally in AMA back in '90s. Actual maintenance would be better than manual's, but still quite intensive per season.

I'm through with converted street-bikes for track, it's not fun. I've got over 100-days at track on my CBR600RR and about 6-days on RSV4 thanks to Aprilia-Days. While I can go faster, they're not as much fun as Ninjette due to so much extra weight. Crisp feel just isn't there. I can feel difference between running over nickel vs. dime on Ninjette, not so on those other bikes. Stability electronics just gives rubber-band or puppet-string effect on these big bikes and insulates rider.

Also frame & suspension geometry too much of compromise due to needing to be streetable originally. We've all experienced difference with raising forks 20-24mm. Imagine that improvement several times more! So I want 23-degree rake, 90-100mm trail on ~125cm wheelbase. I may run RS250R for a season, while I build my own custom frame for Banshee engine. Distance between top & bottom tubes determines rigidity and you can build significantly stiffer frame with stressed-member engine compared to narrower twin-spar frame that hangs engine. Ducati got significant improvement in rigidity on their 1098S by going from 28 to 34mm (yet thinner) tubing and saved 3+lbs from frame.




I really miss RZ350 I had in '80s. Never should've sold it, but I wasn't into racing back then. It was kinda unruly street bike.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; May 17th, 2020 at 12:21 PM.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 17th, 2020, 10:04 AM   #22
Zaph42
ninjette.org sage
 
Zaph42's Avatar
 
Name: John
Location: Appleton, WI
Join Date: Apr 2015

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 (race), Ninja 1000 (road)

Posts: 504
I miss my RZ350 I had in the 80's also. I suspect I just miss the engine, I don't think the chassis was all that special, and I could even tell way back then when my riding skill wasn't very high.
__________________________________________________
Ninja 300 - CCS Ultralight Thunderbike Racing
I want to "like" your post but I can't due to forum rules. Sorry.
Zaph42 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 18th, 2020, 06:15 AM   #23
sharky nrk
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
 
sharky nrk's Avatar
 
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009

Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track

Posts: A lot.
RS250 is a no joke machine and would be absolutely rad to race. They require the diligence in maintenance that a rear purpose built racebike should. But I hear the reward is worth the effort. Out of my price league but I have very much desired to ride one.
__________________________________________________
Keep it rubber side down and enjoy the ride
Get healthy - Get Fit - Change Your Life
Click Here Or PM Me To Find More - Advocare
sharky nrk is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 18th, 2020, 06:49 AM   #24
tgold
ninjette.org sage
 
Name: Timm
Location: West Seneca, NY
Join Date: Oct 2015

Motorcycle(s): 2006 1050 Speed Triple, 2010 250 Ninja racebike, YZF320RR? Racebike

Posts: 556
MOTM - Nov '15
Nothing is going to touch an F2 bike in terms of handling, but perhaps A Kramer HK2 would be a good choice that would be way less maintenance and still extremely good handling. They use a KTM 690 engine.
Buy-in cost for a brand new one is more than what you're looking at for that RS, (I think he's asking $16.5K) But the maintenance is going to be way less. Kramer also sells a bike with the KTM 890 motor that has 130hp and weighs 308lbs.

https://www.kramermotorcyclesusa.com/
Attached Images
File Type: jpg HKR_EVO2R_Rechts90.jpg (35.0 KB, 0 views)
tgold is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 18th, 2020, 08:55 AM   #25
jkv45
Rev Limiter
 
jkv45's Avatar
 
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013

Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
What are your plans for one Danno? Track day or competition?

If you really want to be competitive in your class, you need to really study the top competitors and see what is working for them (I know you know that...just sayin').

I must say, I like a good 2-stroke race bike, but the BeOn 450 conversions are really attractive. From what we have seen with our CRF150R and CRF450R, they can take a lot of abuse with minimal maintenance - and still really haul with just a few upgrades if you want.

The big YZFs are a Supermoto favorite as well for a good reason.
jkv45 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 18th, 2020, 11:16 AM   #26
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgold View Post
Nothing is going to touch an F2 bike in terms of handling, but perhaps A Kramer HK2 would be a good choice that would be way less maintenance and still extremely good handling. They use a KTM 690 engine.
Buy-in cost for a brand new one is more than what you're looking at for that RS, (I think he's asking $16.5K) But the maintenance is going to be way less. Kramer also sells a bike with the KTM 890 motor that has 130hp and weighs 308lbs.

https://www.kramermotorcyclesusa.com/
Yeah, starting cost is more than freshly-rebuilt RS250R, but maintenance will be cheaper! I'll check that out, thanks!
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 18th, 2020, 11:35 AM   #27
Zaph42
ninjette.org sage
 
Zaph42's Avatar
 
Name: John
Location: Appleton, WI
Join Date: Apr 2015

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 (race), Ninja 1000 (road)

Posts: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgold View Post
Nothing is going to touch an F2 bike in terms of handling, but perhaps A Kramer HK2 would be a good choice that would be way less maintenance and still extremely good handling. They use a KTM 690 engine.
Buy-in cost for a brand new one is more than what you're looking at for that RS, (I think he's asking $16.5K) But the maintenance is going to be way less. Kramer also sells a bike with the KTM 890 motor that has 130hp and weighs 308lbs.

https://www.kramermotorcyclesusa.com/
Hmmm interesting. Kinda reminds me of this bike I saw previously that was a conversion kit by Mototech for 690 Dukes that turned them into an RC4 supermono track bike. Would be similar but substantially cheaper.


I love bikes like this but I think we may be polluting Danno's thread with bikes that aren't 2 smoker goodness. (but easier to own)
__________________________________________________
Ninja 300 - CCS Ultralight Thunderbike Racing
I want to "like" your post but I can't due to forum rules. Sorry.
Zaph42 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 20th, 2020, 11:16 AM   #28
sharky nrk
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
 
sharky nrk's Avatar
 
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009

Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track

Posts: A lot.
Man the Kramer is another one of the "wish it" bikes. The new 890 based version is going to be NUTS.
__________________________________________________
Keep it rubber side down and enjoy the ride
Get healthy - Get Fit - Change Your Life
Click Here Or PM Me To Find More - Advocare
sharky nrk is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[motogp.com] - Honda Racing celebrates 2017 season Ninjette Newsbot Motorcycling News 0 December 3rd, 2017 10:31 AM
Rainy season maintenance Ninja 300 nick_smith68 General Motorcycling Discussion 4 January 7th, 2016 03:11 PM
[kropotkin thinks...] - Pata Honda Press Release: Pata Honda 2014 Season Launch At Ve Ninjette Newsbot Motorcycling News 0 January 25th, 2014 10:20 AM
[roadracingworld.com] - HRC Parts For RS125R, RS250R Racebikes Now Available To All H Ninjette Newsbot Motorcycling News 0 July 26th, 2011 05:30 PM
[roadracingworld.com] - Watch For Stolen Honda RS250R Racebike Parts Ninjette Newsbot Motorcycling News 0 May 5th, 2009 04:30 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Motorcycle Safety Foundation

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:43 AM.


Website uptime monitoring Host-tracker.com
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Except where otherwise noted, all site contents are © Copyright 2022 ninjette.org, All rights reserved.