April 12th, 2013, 03:05 PM | #1 |
I told you bro
Name: Noor
Location: Austin, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1996 Ninja 250r Posts: 680
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Coolant leaking into oil and oil leaking out of somewhere.
Hey guys, long time no see. Haven't posted in a while because of University and life and I hate that my first post when coming back is me begging for help, but I've got a big problem with my oil and coolant.
About four days ago I noticed my bike was starting to get very close to overheating, the needle would get high but then it'd drop down quickly when I started to drive. I figured it might be something to do with the coolant, so I checked out my reservoir when I got home and it was completely empty. After the bike had cooled down I opened the cap for the radiator and it was almost empty. I refilled both the reservoir and radiator, made sure there was no air and my bike seemed to work again, it wasn't overheating. Now, I hadn't smelled any burning coolant, so I figured it may have leaked into the oil somehow as I remember that being an issue when I first got my bike. Sure enough, the oil was somewhat milky, but looked normal. I decided to continue riding the bike to see if any of the new coolant would leak into it. Coming out of class today I noticed a large foot long pool of oil on the ground. I noticed some coolant in it but I couldn't find any specific point where it was leaking. I drove the bike home and a lot of white smoke was coming up from the left and the front of my bike but I still couldn't see a source of leakage. When I got home I took everything apart and drained the oil. Sure enough, it looked like chocolate milk and almost all the coolant in the radiator was gone and the reservoir was empty. I also noticed water/ some liquid coming out of the bottom breather hose and white gunk in the breather box. There was also some oil under the starter and around it. I'm a bit confused though as that's on the right side of the engine while the oil dripping on to my exhaust pipes is on the left and where the big pool was earlier today. Are these signs my head gasket is gone or could this be some other issue? TL;DR version: Coolant leaking into oil, oil leaking out on left side, oil all over my tire, do I need a new head gasket? Here are some pictures: Oil in my lower fairings when I removed them: Oil around my starter (there was more but I dried it up before the picture): Headers with the area where oil was dropping onto them. My tire once I was home (found a nail in it too :/) "milky" oil after I drained my bike: |
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April 12th, 2013, 03:44 PM | #2 |
sail away
Name: Jon
Location: San Jose
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): gixxer (sold), ninjette (upgrade!) Posts: 964
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Big problems. You may need a head gasket. It might even be worse like a cracked engine. It might be simple, like both a leaking coolant pipe and a leaking valve cover gasket. Time to start shopping. What is the highest point of the leak?
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April 12th, 2013, 03:49 PM | #3 |
Que Buenos Son!!!
Name: Ryan
Location: Grovetucky, OH
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): Aprilia Shiver 750, Husaberg FE 450, Ninja 300 (sold), xr100 Posts: A lot.
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Was the engine still hot when you refilled the radiator?
Welcome back btw, too bad it's under these circumstances. Does you bike still have that crazy paint job?
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April 12th, 2013, 04:30 PM | #4 | ||
I told you bro
Name: Noor
Location: Austin, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1996 Ninja 250r Posts: 680
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Quote:
Quote:
Thanks! And yes it does Here's an image of where it's mostly collecting, the top and mid section of engine are mostly except for the usual road grime, although the area the breather hose is wet and smells kind of like gas. I'm also missing some sort of nut on this radiator tube but I can't find what it is on the parts diagram. |
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April 12th, 2013, 05:35 PM | #5 |
sail away
Name: Jon
Location: San Jose
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): gixxer (sold), ninjette (upgrade!) Posts: 964
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http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID.../Radiator(1_2)
Maybe you need to replace the bolt and the seal behind the water pump. Parts 130B 130L0635 BOLT-FLANGED 671 671D2535 O RING
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April 13th, 2013, 05:59 AM | #6 |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Noor,
It seems to me that the coolant has made the crankcase over-full and the excess of coolant-oil mix has been pushed out through the breather; hence, the spread mess. Pump seals rarely fail and when they do, you can see coolant leaking out through a hole in the pump body. It seems that your head gasket is fried and/or your head is warped (common things that happen when coolant runs extremely low), but it could be something else as well that allows pressurized coolant flowing onto the oil. I though that you had replaced that tire since you low-sided some time ago !!! Pictures of the repaired bike and paint job are still owed !!!
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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April 14th, 2013, 11:44 AM | #7 | ||
I told you bro
Name: Noor
Location: Austin, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1996 Ninja 250r Posts: 680
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Quote:
Quote:
I may even end up having a shop patch my tire until I can save up enough to buy some new tires :/ Hopefully once I become more financially independent after I graduate I can do some real work on my bike |
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April 14th, 2013, 12:44 PM | #8 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
A long but good thread about replacing head gasket and repairing leaky valves: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...=116053&page=5 You should be able to find traces of oil floating on the coolant (reservoir and radiator). A Kenda tire is about $60 and it is simple to be installed by yourself.
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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April 16th, 2013, 02:17 PM | #9 | |
I told you bro
Name: Noor
Location: Austin, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1996 Ninja 250r Posts: 680
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Quote:
I'm still searching around. Hopefully I can find a good deal but for now I'm going to go the patch route so I can get around town to get my parts/ pick up packages. |
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April 17th, 2013, 04:56 AM | #10 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
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Quote:
__________________________________________________
Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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May 20th, 2013, 05:03 PM | #11 |
I told you bro
Name: Noor
Location: Austin, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1996 Ninja 250r Posts: 680
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Update post! I've graduated university and I have nice break to fix my bike.
I've taken the bike apart so here's a couple pictures: Here's a picture of the camshafts, it seems one of the circle guides was chipped off at some point, but that seems to have been a long time ago as the break was covered in oil when I took it out and I couldn't find the missing piece. Doesn't seem to be a major issue as my bike has been running fine, minus the coolant leak. Here's the old gasket, had lots of drops of coolant on it when I removed it. Not exactly sure what's wrong with it if the black layer is just paint. If it's not just paint, then that's definitely the problem since the gasket is pretty much stripped. Pistons look fine, should I clean them or just leave them be? I've read online about people cleaning the carbon built up on them but I'm not exactly sure what I'd use to clean them. Finally, a pic of my bike in pieces. :'( |
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May 20th, 2013, 05:28 PM | #12 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Justin
Location: Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 2001 Posts: A lot.
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My thread!
Yeah my head gasket looked exactly the same when I took it apart. I put a new one in and voila bike ran perfect again. You can always lap your valves and clean the carbon off your pistons (strongly recommend WD40 for that!!). But you'll need to have a tool to put the valve collets back on the stems after you're done. Cleaning the pistons is plenty easy just make sure you orient the rings and pistons themselves properly after you're done. |
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May 20th, 2013, 05:59 PM | #13 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Robert
Location: South of you blokes.
Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): '92 GPX 250 (Gone and replaced with '08 V-Strom), 2005 Suzuki C50. Posts: 186
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Mate, that is a wicked paint job. Good luck with the repairs.
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May 20th, 2013, 06:00 PM | #14 |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Congratulations, Noor !!!
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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May 21st, 2013, 01:33 PM | #15 | |
I told you bro
Name: Noor
Location: Austin, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1996 Ninja 250r Posts: 680
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Thank you! It's a big step forward for me!
Quote:
Questions for those who know: do I need to use sealent for the head gasket? From what I can gather online it looks like I shouldn't be using any at all. Also should I turn over the engine at any point in putting the camshafts back in? I thought about just returning them back to the position they came out, but I'm not exactly sure if that's going to that easy. The guide I've used to disassemble the engine has been this one: http://forums.ninja250.org/viewtopic.php?t=74552 which has a guide on Timing valves. I'm just afraid of screwing anything up. |
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May 21st, 2013, 01:50 PM | #16 |
I told you bro
Name: Noor
Location: Austin, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1996 Ninja 250r Posts: 680
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Here's a picture of them right before I took them out. |
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May 21st, 2013, 01:51 PM | #17 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Justin
Location: Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 2001 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Don't use any gasket maker/sealant for your head gasket. Don't worry about screwing anything up it's not that hard of a process, albeit a little time consuming. I'll pm you the shop manual for this process if motofool hasn't already. |
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May 21st, 2013, 01:56 PM | #18 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Justin
Location: Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 2001 Posts: A lot.
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You wanna check that you're at TDC when you put the cams back on and count 33 links in between the EX and IN markings on your cams' sprockets. You're gonna need to use the shop manual to find the sequence you put your camshaft caps back on.
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May 22nd, 2013, 02:29 PM | #19 | |
I told you bro
Name: Noor
Location: Austin, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1996 Ninja 250r Posts: 680
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Quote:
How do I reach TDC? Is that when the 2T mark is at the mark shows up in the viewing window of the crankshaft? I assume I should hold the camchain tight so it doesn't get caught in anything since I've already removed the cams without putting it on TDC. I think the person who previously did this could have caused the break in the guides at the end by not putting it in a position that could cause tension. ---- Also, I accidentally ended up breaking the bolt that holds the top end to the rest of the engine Kawi makes these things out of butter. Replaced it with a nice SS bolt and washer that should do a better job. |
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May 22nd, 2013, 02:38 PM | #20 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Justin
Location: Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 2001 Posts: A lot.
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Yeah 2DC is top dead center for cylinder 2. This way none of the cam lobes will be pushing against the valves while you're installing (and of course the timing between the piston and the stroke will be correct).
I put a coat hanger in the middle of the chain to keep it from falling down until I put them on the sprockets. |
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May 22nd, 2013, 04:27 PM | #21 |
I told you bro
Name: Noor
Location: Austin, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1996 Ninja 250r Posts: 680
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I've got them in their positions (EX lined up with the case to the front, IN lined up on the back) but I still have this gap on the left side of the camp from the lobes pushing up on the valves. Is this normal? |
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May 22nd, 2013, 04:51 PM | #22 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Justin
Location: Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 2001 Posts: A lot.
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Hard to say without being there! I can't recall sorry.
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May 22nd, 2013, 06:05 PM | #23 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
SS cannot do the job, it is much softer steel than original bolt. Also very important: the cap of the cams are not interchangeable, they must go back to the original position and the torque should follow the specified sequence.
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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May 22nd, 2013, 07:04 PM | #24 | |
I told you bro
Name: Noor
Location: Austin, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1996 Ninja 250r Posts: 680
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Quote:
Went with the SS because my local bolt supplier only had the 6x25 bolt in SS and only 6x20 in unpainted steel. I could go ahead and order that bolt but I'm not sure if need to. It's bolt 130, I don't think it's a very important bolt, it's actually kind of strange that it's there at all when the head and piston body are attached by the inner 7 bolts already as it only goes through the head gasket. I don't understand what you're saying Do you mean the silver brackets/ covers that go over the cams? The issue I'm having with the cams right now is that when I line up the EX and IN lines with the top of the engine case I'm the EX camp is slightly raised because of the lobes touching the valves. |
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May 22nd, 2013, 07:51 PM | #25 |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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It is listed as obsolete in that link.
I believe that you are correct. Yes, those are the parts. Any time the cams are facing down, they are pushing the valves down. With no force, the valves push the cams up; just normal.
__________________________________________________
Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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May 25th, 2013, 12:41 PM | #26 |
I told you bro
Name: Noor
Location: Austin, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1996 Ninja 250r Posts: 680
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Well it's back together and running... kind of... Here's a video of the issue I'm having now. Hard knocking noise when I start the bike, but I don't have any gas leaks or coolant leaks anymore. Everything looks fine when I took the top off.
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May 25th, 2013, 12:53 PM | #27 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Justin
Location: Florida
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 2001 Posts: A lot.
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Have you gotten the bike to idle at all? I'm not sure if what I'm hearing is normal or abnormal to be honest. I would need to hear it run... I mean it could be the echo of your garage or something like that.
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May 25th, 2013, 01:39 PM | #28 |
I'm crazy,your excuse is?
Name: Winston
Location: Connecticut
Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): 250 2007 ninja Posts: A lot.
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Knocking could be spun rod bearings from running the bike with water in oil.
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May 25th, 2013, 02:58 PM | #29 | |
I told you bro
Name: Noor
Location: Austin, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1996 Ninja 250r Posts: 680
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Quote:
I'm at a loss here, I may take it to a mechanic on tuesday and hopefully they can fix it if I can't figure it out by then. Edit: turning over the engine over manually didn't give me any weird noises either, so it doesn't seem like anything is loose or stuck. |
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May 25th, 2013, 03:33 PM | #30 |
RIP Alex
Name: Cuong
Location: Houston, TX
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): '10 250r, '09 265r Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 2
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Just be careful not to over stretch your chain with the manual tensioner. Sis you get a new chain installed or do you still have your original one? I didn't keep up with your old ticking thread.
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May 25th, 2013, 03:48 PM | #31 | |
I told you bro
Name: Noor
Location: Austin, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1996 Ninja 250r Posts: 680
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Quote:
Edit: any idea how my engine would sound if that happened? |
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May 25th, 2013, 04:09 PM | #32 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Justin
Location: Florida
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Quote:
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