Engine Kill Switch won't kill

.KiT · November 7th, 2009, 03:41 PM

So my red engine kill switch isn't working. I have to use the key or put down the stand to kill the engine. I bought a replacement switch since putting a cont. test on the switch showed both ways the two wires (red and red/yellow) were shorting. The new switch responded the same way. What could be the problem? Thanks!

-KiT

noche_caliente · November 7th, 2009, 03:48 PM

welcome Kris! Have you traced the wires to be sure there aren't any visible cuts, etc?

.KiT · November 7th, 2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noche_caliente

welcome Kris! Have you traced the wires to be sure there aren't any visible cuts, etc?

No, but when I put continuity on the switch leads while connected it was always a closed circuit. I'm wondering how a visible cut would cause that, unless it was a... cut that would short the two wires to each other?? The service manual mentions replacing the IC Igniter??

Second Step
•Turn on the ignition switch.
•Set the neutral position.
•Turn the engine stop switch to run position [A].
•Push the starter button and run the engine.
•Turn the engine stop switch to stop position.
•Immediately the engine should be stop.
If the engine does not stop, inspect or replace the following
item.
Engine Stop Switch (see Switch Inspection in the Electrical
System chapter)
If the engine stop switch is good condition, replace the IC
Igniter.

I will go out there and trace it now. Thanks for the response!

HKr1 · November 7th, 2009, 07:10 PM

Replace the cdi....... Thats interesting. I thought the kill switch cut the 12v to the coils. Looks like it in the schematic anyway

.KiT · November 8th, 2009, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HKr1

Replace the cdi....... Thats interesting. I thought the kill switch cut the 12v to the coils. Looks like it in the schematic anyway

Excuse my stupidity.. but does the CDI = IC Ignitor? If not what exactly is a CDI?

bob706 · November 8th, 2009, 07:40 AM

CDI = Capacator Discharge Ignition
IC Ignitor = Ignition Coil Ignitor

ninjabrewer · November 8th, 2009, 08:28 AM

Check the wiring that leads from the kill switch to wherever it goes. You may have to take off the fairings to get to them. Visually look at them and look for cracks or breaks in the insulation on the outside of the wire. I have seen places where wires were rubbing against each other rubbed bare and making contact.

nb

CZroe · November 8th, 2009, 10:36 AM

Out of curiosity, what year is the bike? I'm wondering why Kawi says to use the key and not the switch, contrary to the MSF guidelines.

.KiT · November 8th, 2009, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CZroe

Out of curiosity, what year is the bike? I'm wondering why Kawi says to use the key and not the switch, contrary to the MSF guidelines.

2008 with 250 miles, pristine condition. I bought it used but never checked that switch when I bought it since I use the key.

HKr1 · November 8th, 2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .KiT

Excuse my stupidity.. but does the CDI = IC Ignitor? If not what exactly is a CDI?

same thing.

CZroe · November 8th, 2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .KiT

2008 with 250 miles, pristine condition. I bought it used but never checked that switch when I bought it since I use the key.

Thanks. With only 250 miles, I think it's safe to say that it wasn't worn to that point.

Anyway, next time, remember that you have to disconnect the switch to test it's continuity. The short is obviously on the other side of the wiring.

.KiT · November 9th, 2009, 03:12 PM

So do I replace the CDI or the IC Ignitor? Oh wait it is the same thing. Is this a common problem on this bike? I just read about a potential recall and everyone is saying CDI. This bike has 250miles on it. Really shouldn't have a part failure already?

noche_caliente · November 9th, 2009, 04:51 PM

is it by chance still under warranty if it only has 250 miles? maybe the dealer can figure it out?

HKr1 · November 9th, 2009, 05:09 PM

I dont see why they say to replace the CDI. The CDI just grounds the coils to make a spark, the kill switch is supplying the +12 to the coils(via main sw). Seems like you would have to trouble shoot why the +12 is not being cut by the switch.

.KiT · November 10th, 2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HKr1

I dont see why they say to replace the CDI. The CDI just grounds the coils to make a spark, the kill switch is supplying the +12 to the coils(via main sw). Seems like you would have to trouble shoot why the +12 is not being cut by the switch.

Here I go... got her tore down and looking over the wires. Just as clean under the seat as everywhere else. Going to follow that schematic back now. Good time to install my tender leads. Quick question on that, does the ground go directly to the battery as well?

Thanks again for the replies

-KiT

kkim · November 10th, 2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .KiT

Quick question on that, does the ground go directly to the battery as well?

that's where I connected mine and it works fine.

.KiT · November 10th, 2009, 09:13 PM

Alright I give up tracing wires for now. Everything seems fine. I am going to read service manual on how to VOM test the CDI if it is even possible.

I am going to install the tender lead. I am bringing it up under the back seat and making a cigarette lighter plug that adapts to the battery side of the tender connection. Mounting it under back seat and it will leave enough space in that storage to stick a cell phone. I'm guessing this has been done before? I will take pics if it hasn't.

g21-30 · November 11th, 2009, 08:04 AM

Kris, I created the following just for your benefit:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...776#post120776

Maybe it will help you! Let me know if it does.

HKr1 · November 11th, 2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .KiT

I bought a replacement switch since putting a cont. test on the switch showed both ways the two wires (red and red/yellow) were shorting. The new switch responded the same way. What could be the problem? Thanks!

-KiT

That is odd, seems like OFF would be open. Personally I would unplug the kill switch, key -on, see if theres +12 at the coils. If there is, you need to check the harness(br/bk & r). < can even check at the harness conector.
If theres no +12 at coils, it has to be the switch.

g21-30 · November 11th, 2009, 09:49 AM

As Kerry (HKr1) stated, the function of the engine stop switch is to "OPEN" the circuit, thus cutting off the 12V supply to the coils. You said that you have already replaced the switch once, so why not disconnect the switch from the circuit? If the engine starts, then the problem is either in the wiring (not the engine stop switch wiring) or the CDI.

randomwalk101 · November 11th, 2009, 11:36 AM

may be it's a faulty switch

g21-30 · November 11th, 2009, 12:12 PM

Yep, but he already replaced it once, but the new one could be bad; however, not likely.

HKr1 · November 11th, 2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

may be it's a faulty switch

He mentioned buying a new one???

The kill switch supplies +12 to the starter switch too. < So with the kill switch off, the starter button should not work.

g21-30 · November 11th, 2009, 12:42 PM

It's also possible that the 6 way connector (blue ellipse in pic) has the BR/BK and R pins shorted together...similiar to what Kerry said about the harness.

.KiT · November 11th, 2009, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g21-30

Yep, but he already replaced it once, but the new one could be bad; however, not likely.

Yeah I really should've unplugged the switch and tested it. But here is what I did with it plugged up. I put a cont. test on the old switch, beeped both on and off.

Installed new switch. Does same thing. I will disconnect harness and put a cont. test on the leads.

I can try to take switch out completely like suggested. While out I can test switch outside while disconnected.

Oh I did dissect old switch but when I dissected it the little spring went flying and I lost it. BUT by just rocking it while it is back together without the spring it opens and closes properly on cont. test.

I got some great ideas to go try now... thanks for all the replies.

.KiT · November 11th, 2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g21-30

It's also possible that the 6 way connector (blue ellipse in pic) has the BR/BK and R pins shorted together...similiar to what Kerry said about the harness.

I will get to this harness first before anything else with the CDI.

HKr1 · November 11th, 2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .KiT

I will get to this harness first before anything else with the CDI.

Where does it say if the kill switch doesnt work to replace cdi. ?? Book & pg #

g21-30 · November 11th, 2009, 02:44 PM

Checking continuity without removing the switch from the circuit is never recommended. It will give you false readings, i.e take other unexpected paths. I would really like to know if the bike starts up with the switch unplugged from the circuit.

Good Luck!

.KiT · November 11th, 2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g21-30

Checking continuity without removing the switch from the circuit is never recommended. It will give you false readings, i.e take other unexpected paths. I would really like to know if the bike starts up with the switch unplugged from the circuit.

Good Luck!

the connector is in excellent condition. I phsyically inspected it and everything looks good.

I unplugged it and put continuity on it and it worked flawlessly. on off, beep no beep respectively.

I plugged it up and tested cont. behind the switch and it is always closed. onto the CDI??

.KiT · November 11th, 2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HKr1

Where does it say if the kill switch doesnt work to replace cdi. ?? Book & pg #

page 2-41 of the 08- service manual

HKr1 · November 11th, 2009, 03:57 PM

So I take it, it does "not" start(turn over) in the off postion?

For the life of me, I dont under stand the Replace IC ignitor (pg2-41)....
Kawi should know best

.KiT · November 11th, 2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HKr1

So I take it, it does "not" start(turn over) in the off postion?

For the life of me, I dont under stand the Replace IC ignitor (pg2-41)....
Kawi should know best

Starts perfect runs everything in off. Basically the switch is for looks on my bike. Luckily it is locked on and not off.

g21-30 · November 11th, 2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .KiT

Starts perfect runs everything in off. Basically the switch is for looks on my bike. Luckily it is locked on and not off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by g21-30

I would really like to know if the bike starts up with the switch unplugged from the circuit.

Did you physically unplug the switch from the circuit and try to start the bike?

.KiT · November 11th, 2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g21-30

Did you physically unplug the switch from the circuit and try to start the bike?

LOL, no I have not tried physically unplugging and start, I will go do that now.

I had the switch in the off position after verifying that when the switch is in the off the meter shows open circuit.

.KiT · November 11th, 2009, 05:09 PM

Will NOT start with the switch disconnected.

HKr1 · November 11th, 2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .KiT

Starts perfect runs everything in off. Basically the switch is for looks on my bike. Luckily it is locked on and not off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by .KiT

Will NOT start with the switch disconnected.

Has to be the switch.

Whats locked on?

.KiT · November 11th, 2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HKr1

Has to be the switch.

Whats locked on?

The switch is perfect. It is the second one too.

not locked on just means the switch, on position instead of off. Meaning always closed even though it rocks fine. at least I can still ride.

I put the meter on the switch harness with it disconnected. SWITCH ON = CLOSED CIRCUIT BEEP SWITCH OFF = NO BEEP

How can you be sure it is the switch with a test condition like this?

.KiT · November 11th, 2009, 05:39 PM

OK so correct me if I am wrong but if the switch works when disconnected from the harness (tests closed and open with a meter) and the rest of the harness that the switch goes in controls the start switch, and a short of the r wire then there is no way to start the bike with that harness disconnected because there is an open circuit, but with the harness hooked up the plug basically overrides with whatever is on the other end of the plug making the stop switch not work... therefore ruling out the fact that it is the switch. I could unsolder the switch from the handle that way the starter still works but I don't really want to do that

According to the attachment that plug does more than just control the kill switch.

g21-30 · November 11th, 2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .KiT

Will NOT start with the switch disconnected.

I just checked my bike. The switch connector is a 6 way, so the only way to disconnect the kill switch alone would be to use your old switch. You could cut the 2 wires leading to the kill switch on the old connector and hook it up to the bike. If the bike starts, it definitely is NOT the kill switch.

HKr1 · November 11th, 2009, 05:57 PM

With the key on, the kill sw disconnected. Is there 12 volts on the Red wire @ harness ??

If there is, could be what Kawi says... the cdi. Cdi should only be grounding the coils. If there something wrong with the cdi, perhaps the 12v is going back thru the coils via cdi. ????

November 7th, 2009, 03:41 PM	#1
.KiT ninjette.org member Name: Kris Location: NC Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 22	Engine Kill Switch won't kill So my red engine kill switch isn't working. I have to use the key or put down the stand to kill the engine. I bought a replacement switch since putting a cont. test on the switch showed both ways the two wires (red and red/yellow) were shorting. The new switch responded the same way. What could be the problem? Thanks! -KiT

November 7th, 2009, 03:48 PM	#2
noche_caliente ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Kim Location: mundo de ensueño Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 250 Posts: A lot.	welcome Kris! Have you traced the wires to be sure there aren't any visible cuts, etc? __________________________________________________ Progrip tank pad, blue rim stripes, blue Pazzos, Roaring Toyz lowering kit, Puig DB in dark smoke, Cortech sport tail, super mini tank, and saddlebags, OES swingarm spools and Intuitive frame sliders

November 8th, 2009, 08:28 AM	#7
ninjabrewer dirty old man Name: Chris Location: Hazel Green, AL Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): Blue '08 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 1	Check the wiring that leads from the kill switch to wherever it goes. You may have to take off the fairings to get to them. Visually look at them and look for cracks or breaks in the insulation on the outside of the wire. I have seen places where wires were rubbing against each other rubbed bare and making contact. nb __________________________________________________ Death tugs at my ear and says, "Live, I am coming." -Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr., poet, novelist, essayist, and physician (1809-1894) www.friendsofsanonofre.org

November 9th, 2009, 04:51 PM	#13
noche_caliente ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Kim Location: mundo de ensueño Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 250 Posts: A lot.	is it by chance still under warranty if it only has 250 miles? maybe the dealer can figure it out? __________________________________________________ Progrip tank pad, blue rim stripes, blue Pazzos, Roaring Toyz lowering kit, Puig DB in dark smoke, Cortech sport tail, super mini tank, and saddlebags, OES swingarm spools and Intuitive frame sliders

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November 7th, 2009, 07:10 PM	#4
HKr1 IC2(SW) Name: Kerry Location: Pensacola Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: A lot.	Replace the cdi....... Thats interesting. I thought the kill switch cut the 12v to the coils. Looks like it in the schematic anyway

November 8th, 2009, 07:40 AM	#6
bob706 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Sean Location: Mary Esther, FL Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 1998 HD Road King Posts: A lot.	CDI = Capacator Discharge Ignition IC Ignitor = Ignition Coil Ignitor

November 8th, 2009, 10:36 AM	#8
CZroe CPT Falcon Name: J.Emmett Turner Location: Newnan, GA Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.	Out of curiosity, what year is the bike? I'm wondering why Kawi says to use the key and not the switch, contrary to the MSF guidelines.

November 9th, 2009, 03:12 PM	#12
.KiT ninjette.org member Name: Kris Location: NC Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 22	So do I replace the CDI or the IC Ignitor? Oh wait it is the same thing. Is this a common problem on this bike? I just read about a potential recall and everyone is saying CDI. This bike has 250miles on it. Really shouldn't have a part failure already?

November 10th, 2009, 09:13 PM	#17
.KiT ninjette.org member Name: Kris Location: NC Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 22	Alright I give up tracing wires for now. Everything seems fine. I am going to read service manual on how to VOM test the CDI if it is even possible. I am going to install the tender lead. I am bringing it up under the back seat and making a cigarette lighter plug that adapts to the battery side of the tender connection. Mounting it under back seat and it will leave enough space in that storage to stick a cell phone. I'm guessing this has been done before? I will take pics if it hasn't.

November 11th, 2009, 08:04 AM	#18
g21-30 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Sam Location: Northern Virginia Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R 2009 Posts: A lot.	Kris, I created the following just for your benefit: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...776#post120776 Maybe it will help you! Let me know if it does.

November 11th, 2009, 09:49 AM	#20
g21-30 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Sam Location: Northern Virginia Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R 2009 Posts: A lot.	As Kerry (HKr1) stated, the function of the engine stop switch is to "OPEN" the circuit, thus cutting off the 12V supply to the coils. You said that you have already replaced the switch once, so why not disconnect the switch from the circuit? If the engine starts, then the problem is either in the wiring (not the engine stop switch wiring) or the CDI.

November 11th, 2009, 11:36 AM	#21
randomwalk101 self wrencher Name: john Location: houston Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 250r and 07 600r Posts: A lot.	may be it's a faulty switch

November 11th, 2009, 12:12 PM	#22
g21-30 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Sam Location: Northern Virginia Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R 2009 Posts: A lot.	Yep, but he already replaced it once, but the new one could be bad; however, not likely.

November 11th, 2009, 02:44 PM	#28
g21-30 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Sam Location: Northern Virginia Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R 2009 Posts: A lot.	Checking continuity without removing the switch from the circuit is never recommended. It will give you false readings, i.e take other unexpected paths. I would really like to know if the bike starts up with the switch unplugged from the circuit. Good Luck!

November 11th, 2009, 03:57 PM	#31
HKr1 IC2(SW) Name: Kerry Location: Pensacola Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: A lot.	So I take it, it does "not" start(turn over) in the off postion? For the life of me, I dont under stand the Replace IC ignitor (pg2-41).... Kawi should know best

November 11th, 2009, 05:09 PM	#35
.KiT ninjette.org member Name: Kris Location: NC Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 22	Will NOT start with the switch disconnected.

November 11th, 2009, 05:57 PM	#40
HKr1 IC2(SW) Name: Kerry Location: Pensacola Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: A lot.	With the key on, the kill sw disconnected. Is there 12 volts on the Red wire @ harness ?? If there is, could be what Kawi says... the cdi. Cdi should only be grounding the coils. If there something wrong with the cdi, perhaps the 12v is going back thru the coils via cdi. ????