Why are OEM rotors so expensive?

[agentbad]

I looked up how much the price for the front rotor was and was kind of awe struck at the 300 dollar price tag. I changed my front brakes and rotors on my car last year for around 100 bucks so what am I missing?

[Nemesis]

Yeah, I don't understand that myself. Funny thing is aftermarket performance rotors are cheaper and better.

[agentbad]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Yeah, I don't understand that myself. Funny thing is aftermarket performance rotors are cheaper and better.

I know they are cheaper but the quality is not always up to par with the OEM rotors from what I have read.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by agentbad

I know they are cheaper but the quality is not always up to par with the OEM rotors from what I have read.

Well that all depends on the type of rotors your stock bike comes with. We're more likely to have warped rotors on our Ninja 250s with the stock rotors than an aftermarket free floating rotor.

[JohnnyBravo]

Cause folks will pay that for them... If you won't pay folks, look for another sucker, drop the price, or go out of business

[agentbad]

What's the average lifespan of the stock rotor? The reason I ask is I'm getting a scratching sound from my front wheel at low speed occasionally. I have a new set of pads I'm going to drop in this weekend I'm hoping will solve the problem. The bike only has about 8k on it so a warped rotor seems unlikely.

[ninjamunky85]

I wondered the same thing a while back. Why does the tiny little rotor on the 250 cost 10x what it did for my car at the time?.. and why is there only one aftermarket option, compared to 20?

Best answer that I got is just that it comes down to volume. A lot more cars being sold than motorcycles. Basic economics tells us that the more of something you produce the cheaper you can produce it for, so I guess that makes sense.

Also I'd like to think that parts for a motorcycle are more performance oriented and therefore better parts. I'm sure you can spend a lot of $$$ for performance rotors for a car too.

[Tigerpaw]

I think the number of ninjettes that change the rotor due to wear is statistically tiny. I bet 99% are changed after a crash or years of neglect. In the case of the crash, insurance is probably involved, hence the jacked up prices.

just a guess anyway

[Alex]

Originally Posted by agentbad

What's the average lifespan of the stock rotor? The reason I ask is I'm getting a scratching sound from my front wheel at low speed occasionally. I have a new set of pads I'm going to drop in this weekend I'm hoping will solve the problem. The bike only has about 8k on it so a warped rotor seems unlikely.

Scratching sound is bad. Look at the pads immediately and see if they have any brake pad left. If there is metal to metal scraping, any further braking can damage your disc, and eventually even the calipers. It goes from a $30 pad replacement to a $300+ rotor replacement. 8k is about normal lifetime for the oem front pads.

[KawiKid860]

8k is all the 250 will get out of a set of pads? My 500 has 24k on it's front pads and they're low but there is still pad left. Granted I primarily use my rear brakes for traffic and what not, but still I put probably 22k on them before they were worn out.

[Alex]

Ride faster.

[bdavison]

After 27K miles, my rear rotor is pretty much done and needs to be replaced...its on its 3rd set of pads. Front rotor is still good, and its on its 2nd set of pads. Apparently the smaller diameter of the rear causes it to really shred pads and the rotor itself.

[agentbad]

Originally Posted by Alex

Scratching sound is bad. Look at the pads immediately and see if they have any brake pad left. If there is metal to metal scraping, any further braking can damage your disc, and eventually even the calipers. It goes from a $30 pad replacement to a $300+ rotor replacement. 8k is about normal lifetime for the oem front pads.

The pads still have some life in them but not much. What worries me is it happens without using the brakes at low speed.

[Purspeed]

Originally Posted by agentbad

The pads still have some life in them but not much. What worries me is it happens without using the brakes at low speed.

When you squeeze the brake level, it forces the brake pads into the rotor. That turns mechanical energy (spinning tire) into heat while reducing your velocity. When you release the brake lever, springs "pull" the brake pads away from from rotors.

If you are hearing a scratching sound while the brake lever is NOT engaged, then one possibility is that the return springs are worn out and your brake pad is rubbing against the rotor.

Without the benefit of hearing or feeling what you are, this may not be what's going on but it's a possible explanation.


To answer your original question, why OEM rotors are so expensive, the reason why parts cost as they do has to do with the market. The market, people, determine the cost of products in many cases, as companies will charge what people are willing to pay. If Kawasaki doesn't sell many rotors, then that puts downward pressure on the price and they'll sell them at a discount or they'll discontinue this line of product. That's what sets value (one part of it...demand...the other parts are utility, scarcity, transferability).

Another big element that sets pricing is volume, as some have noted. With volume comes economies of scale. You can buy metal cheaper from suppliers, you can run machines longer and you have less set up costs, etc.

End of economics 101 for day. Enjoy the rest of your day!

[agentbad]

I changed out the pads yesterday that seems to have done the trick. I thought the calipers may had been sticking but it was just the pads. Considering how popular the Ninja 250 is I would imagine a round piece of metal with holes in it would be a bit cheaper. I've considered asking my friend who works at a metal shop to just make me one. He programs a machine that cuts parts out metal when the original part can no longer be found.

Found this:
http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/595...-brake-rotors/

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

I wondered the same thing a while back. Why does the tiny little rotor on the 250 cost 10x what it did for my car at the time?.. and why is there only one aftermarket option, compared to 20?

Best answer that I got is just that it comes down to volume. A lot more cars being sold than motorcycles. Basic economics tells us that the more of something you produce the cheaper you can produce it for, so I guess that makes sense.

Also I'd like to think that parts for a motorcycle are more performance oriented and therefore better parts. I'm sure you can spend a lot of $$$ for performance rotors for a car too.

Three options: Genuine original OEM (Kawasaki part), replica/counterfeit OEM (Chinese; eBay or Ali Express/Alibaba), and aftermarket (EBC).

Because I've seen multiple EBC rotors ship with the burrs in the holes (INTOLERABLE!) and I trust the Chinese knock-offs even less, I would only settle for genuine original parts. Of course, Kawasaki charges WAY too much so look for a cheap low mileage take off on eBay BEFORE you need one. Make sure it's straight or demand your money back (goes without saying: don't buy "AS IS"). They can get warped during shipping so make sure the seller takes precautions and stamps it "fragile."

[spooph]

Originally Posted by KawiKid860

8k is all the 250 will get out of a set of pads? My 500 has 24k on it's front pads and they're low but there is still pad left. Granted I primarily use my rear brakes for traffic and what not, but still I put probably 22k on them before they were worn out.

Second what Alex said, ride faster, and use more front brake.


@agentbad - I've measured a few EBC options, and they all measure to 4.5mm. The stock Kawi rotor measures a full 5mm. The service limit on these are 4mm. EBC is usually 58% the cost of the kawi rotor, so, you're actually paying more for the 2 EBC's it would take to make up the service life of a regular kawi replacement....

As to why they are so expensive.... As others have said, demand and insurance. Most people don't ride their 250 enough or hard enough to need to replace the rotor, and if they do, it's because of a crash....

Anyway, buy Kawi parts every chance you get, they'll last longer.

[agentbad]

I still think they are overpriced just like Corbin seats. Fortunetly I got my hands on a lightly used one so should be good to go if I ever need to replace it.

[caltony]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Three options: Genuine original OEM (Kawasaki part), replica/counterfeit OEM (Chinese; eBay or Ali Express/Alibaba), and aftermarket (EBC).

Because I've seen multiple EBC rotors ship with the burrs in the holes (INTOLERABLE!) and I trust the Chinese knock-offs even less, I would only settle for genuine original parts. Of course, Kawasaki charges WAY too much so look for a cheap low mileage take off on eBay BEFORE you need one. Make sure it's straight or demand your money back (goes without saying: don't buy "AS IS"). They can get warped during shipping so make sure the seller takes precautions and stamps it "fragile."

Why would you think that (Chinese; eBay or Ali Express/Alibaba) is not what Kawa actually uses. Just like all the other brake items, the drawings are sent out and usually the cheapest bidder gets the contract for the part.

To compare what comes stock with the EBC floating rotor just doesn't make good sense to me. The stock rotors on both my 250s are so soft that they got ridges in less than 6,000 miles. {that's not a good rotor].

Also, the original rotor is way too small for the bike. Even the Kawa 225 KDX has a larger front rotor. If I could find a larger rotor with the same bolt hole pattern as the stock rotor, I would swap to that rotor immediately. Luckily, in going thru my EBC catalog I did find that EBC will make rotors to spec. So even if they charge twice as much as their aftermarket 250 rotor it will still be somewhere close to the price of the stock Kawa rotor.

If anyone knows of a rotor with the same bolt pattern as the front please let me know.

I like the Kawa Ninja 250 and am amazed by the bike they produced for the price they sell them at but the brakes are just a disaster. For me it is the major limiting factor for me pushing the the limits of the 250.

Tony

[BoBO]

Supply and demand. If the supply increases the price decreases, if the supply decreases the price increases.Yeah it's ridiculous how these ninja rotors are overpriced compared to car rotors, but people still buy them.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by caltony

Why would you think that (Chinese; eBay or Ali Express/Alibaba) is not what Kawa actually uses. Just like all the other brake items, the drawings are sent out and usually the cheapest bidder gets the contract for the part.

To compare what comes stock with the EBC floating rotor just doesn't make good sense to me. The stock rotors on both my 250s are so soft that they got ridges in less than 6,000 miles. {that's not a good rotor].

Also, the original rotor is way too small for the bike. Even the Kawa 225 KDX has a larger front rotor. If I could find a larger rotor with the same bolt hole pattern as the stock rotor, I would swap to that rotor immediately. Luckily, in going thru my EBC catalog I did find that EBC will make rotors to spec. So even if they charge twice as much as their aftermarket 250 rotor it will still be somewhere close to the price of the stock Kawa rotor.

If anyone knows of a rotor with the same bolt pattern as the front please let me know.

I like the Kawa Ninja 250 and am amazed by the bike they produced for the price they sell them at but the brakes are just a disaster. For me it is the major limiting factor for me pushing the the limits of the 250.

Tony

Because everything else is a replica. I learn from experience. Heck, the replacement battery I just got for my Alienware M11x wasn't even supposed to be an original Dell OEM Samsung battery (ordered some other brand) and it came to me with stickers covering the Samsung logos and the fonts were all slightly different from the original battery it was replacing.

There absolutely are imperfect replica 250 parts on eBay, and I don't just mean plastics with poor fit and off-colors: ignitions with incompatible keys, fuel lids with incompatible keys, headlights missing parts that you can't order (foam) intended for regions that drive on the other side of the road and use "city lights" (probably has no DOT stamp), and so on.

It's true that these direct Chinese replicas are often made to the designer's specifications, but that's often because they are factory seconds that were rejected for use by the company that commissioned it. It's why replacement PSP LCDs suddenly became "Grade A" when Sony discontinued it for the PSP 2000. It's why replacement iPhone display assemblies often have dead pixels or iPod LCD panels inside. Even when they don't, they are almost always missing the things a completed final assembly would have (foam on the back of the connectors, camera dust shield, speaker grill, oleophobic coating, mineral glass treatment, etc). It all depends on what stage of assembly they were in when they were pulled to use as a factory spare (it's why some Kawi official replacement fairings have foam, shielding, and logos, while others don't). Heck, I just got a replacement iPhone 4S display assembly with the frame installed UPSIDE DOWN. I had three iPad 2 digitizers in a row with the adhesive applied backwards (why not just let me apply it myself?!). Sloppy.

EBC has been shown to make mistakes that are just as sloppy. That kind of sloppiness is tolerable when we are talking about iPhones and iPads, but not something that your life literally depends on. They sold rotors to one member without machining out the area for the bolt heads to sit. They sold rotors to another with burrs all in the holes which immediately embedded in the brake pads and scoured the surface of the rotor unevenly. They sold brake pads to another member which were mirror-image flipped and either intended for a foreign bike like the Suzuki Thunder or the material was simply installed on the wrong side of the backing plate. Sloppy. Irredeemably so, especially for the price. If EBC has these sloppiness issues at their prices with their reputation at stake, how much better would the nameless suppliers of counterfeit/replica parts would be?

When a vehicle manufacturer makes such mistakes they are held accountable by the NHTSA. When an aftermarket company like EBC makes a mistake then they are held accountable by their potential customers by reputation. A vehicle manufacturer will issue recalls and research reports voluntarily just to avoid penalties. They will put extra quality and assembly checks that the part maker did not. These cheap gray/black market imports do not come with a safety net of accountability or reputation.

Wow. Despite being independently aware of all of these incidents, until you prompted me to write this I didn't even fully realize how sloppy EBC had become. Kawi may not have the best rotors, but at least they are accountable.

[caltony]

I really don't know what to say except to say that if you like buying official Kawa parts than that's what you should do.

Some after market parts found on EBAY are cheaply made but historically Most after market parts are for the owner who wants to upgrade their bike.

The Ninja 250 is at the bottom rung of Kawa bikes. The quality of 250 parts are not the same as the quality of the R1 parts or even of the new more expensive Ninja 300.

$300 for the stock POS front rotor is unconscionable.

Tony

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by caltony

I really don't know what to say except to say that if you like buying official Kawa parts than that's what you should do.

I gave three options and my two cents. I did not say "don't upgrade" or "don't buy replicas." In fact, I demonstrated that I buy replicas all the time and know fully well what I am getting into when I do. The replicas I saw on Ali Express were sold as a front and rear set for under $200.

My two cents summary:
Kawasaki is too expensive. If EBC can't get it right and isn't cheap, and the replicas are no more trustworthy and aren't significantly cheaper (half the point is to take advantage of high cost original market prices), why not settle for a low-mileage take-off?

Originally Posted by caltony

Some after market parts found on EBAY are cheaply made but historically Most after market parts are for the owner who wants to upgrade their bike.

Replicas and counterfeits are not upgrades. The Alibaba/AliExpress/eBay replicas are not upgrades. In the best case scenarios they are simply cheaper equivalents. No one swaps their stock mirrors for EMGO replicas to "upgrade."

Originally Posted by caltony

The Ninja 250 is at the bottom rung of Kawa bikes. The quality of 250 parts are not the same as the quality of the R1 parts or even of the new more expensive Ninja 300.

And that same mentality carries over into the aftermarket parts too, which is why we only have one aftermarket rotor brand available here which has proven worse than the original.

Originally Posted by caltony

$300 for the stock POS front rotor is unconscionable.

Tony

I agree, which is why I suggest low-mileage take-offs which are waaaay cheaper than EBC with far fewer complaints/concerns.

[capt_bugaloo]

Why? Economy of scale. The car company easily sells ten times as many brake rotors, so they produce them in larger numbers more cheaply.

It's not an item that should need replacement except in cases of crash damage. It's a big old hunk of steel; unless you prang it into something it should last a long, long time.

[Alex]

More riders on this site have had to change them out than you might think. It's only one rotor up front, and they do have a wear limit. No, they won't go quickly for riders putting 2K or 3K miles a year on the bike, but those that are closer to 8k to 10k per year might need to replace that rotor during the life of the bike, perhaps several times.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Alex

...

Tell me about it! It's been expensive for me.

[caltony]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Tell me about it! It's been expensive for me.

Have they always been that expensive? or is this something new?


I did email EBC and asked if any other rotor had the same bolt pattern but also had a larger outside Dia. Haven't heard back yet.

Also anybody know the exact specs of the front rotor.
My measurements were:
260mm od
150 mm id
85 mm bolt hole to bolt hole
6 bolt holes
10 mm bolt hole size


Tony

[nickjpass]

I have a total of three rotors

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by caltony

Have they always been that expensive? or is this something new?

It was hundreds back in 2010 too.

[Skullz]

I bought the ebay rotors and they're wearing as well as you would expect with no more wear than what i got from the factory rotors. Steel from that part of the world only comes from a very few sources so i would expect them to be nearly identical to the factory pieces.

[Kscreations08]

OEM everything is more expensive. I was shopping for a new rear tire and was going for OEM until I found that a stock IRC is $186!

I went to Shinko for a third of that price and could've bought bridgestone or Pirellis for less than the IRC's OEM prices

[nickjpass]

But oem tires suck on the 250

[CZroe]

Exactly, which makes them relatively expensive.

[spooph]

well now boys, you're using the term "suck" in very different ways....

The stock rotor is more expensive because it lasts longer....

The IRC's also last longer...

Hard as hell and not nearly sticky enough, sure, but they last.... shouldn't they be more expensive? :P

[Ninjinsky]

If I still worked in a machine shop I would just spin something up and see how it went, even if it didn't last as long It wouldn't be brain damage to do another a few years later. Since they rust it can't be stainless so should be easy to machine and drill.
Anyone know what steel they use?

PS checking ebay ther are so many cheap used ones why worry ?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006-KAWAS...item4d17f915af

[Flying]

I believe your typical street rotor is manufactured from 410/416 stainless.
Galfer discs are made from 420 according to this blurb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eosYqd_fuJM

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by spooph

well now boys, you're using the term "suck" in very different ways....

The stock rotor is more expensive because it lasts longer....

The IRC's also last longer...

Hard as hell and not nearly sticky enough, sure, but they last.... shouldn't they be more expensive? :P

I guess tires that only last a few laps on a track must cost very little...