DIY - What Electrical Items Can be Used and Not Overload the Battery?

[g21-30]

Since I just ordered a Gerbing Heated Jacket Liner (GHJL), I decided to calculate what the potential load might be on the Ninja 250 charging system, before adding the GHJL to the bike.

I reviewed the '08 Service Manual Electrical Schematic and came up with the following:



EDIT: See PDF thumbnail for details

As you can see, if for some reason every warning light came on at the same time, while making a right or left hand turn, and blowing the horn, without the brakes on, the total wattage is 227.6 (Column labeled Watts). Doing the same thing, while applying the brakes, the total wattage is 243.6. Since the max wattage available is 266, the charging system is adequate for the Ninja 250 under this very unlikely load.

Still using the factory headlights, let's look at what might be considered a NORMAL load, i.e. not making a turn and not blowing the horn, but applying the brake every now and then. This is depicted in the column labeled NORMAL. It's very unlikely that all the warning lamps would be on, so there is an additional 13.2 watts to play with, if you wish to do that exercise. This yields 70-88 watts. The GHJL needs 77 watts!!! This obviously works, since Alex (the moderator) runs one with factory lights.

By converting to HID headlights, this exercise can be repeated and those results are depicted in the next 2 columns.

Enjoy and please check my calculations!

[Alex]

Nice work!

[g21-30]

Thanks! I'm lazy and didn't want to break out my amp probe to measure the load on the battery!

[camaroz1985]

Thanks Sam. Great to see it all out there in black and white.

[OldGuy]

Great work Sam. Facts always beat guessing.

[Momaru]

Nice summary Sam, thanks!!

[headshrink]

Should handle your Viberider, no problem.

[Alex]

[sudadoda]

thanks for the specs, I really needed that. Thanks again.
Mark

[CZroe]

So, HID lights use less than incandescent? Good to know. If I upgrade to LED lighting for all turn and brake lamps, would the savings be significant or would the load resistors cancel it out?

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by CZroe

So, HID lights use less than incandescent? Good to know. If I upgrade to LED lighting for all turn and brake lamps, would the savings be significant or would the load resistors cancel it out?

When it comes to electrical loads, the math is a little over my head, but based on what I have read, you would still get a savings with LEDs. Since everyone who has them needs to increase the load somewhat, I doubt your setup would add any more then theirs. Also, the tail light is the only potential LED light that will remain constantly on.... Bottom line is, I have yet to hear of someone running out of power for their accessories, although it is theoretically possible. Personally, if I went on a trip with my GPS, or with heated gear, they would be different types of trips.... so they wouldn't be used at the same time anyways. It is good to research first, but I think you are good.

[ithaca00]

Originally Posted by CZroe

So, HID lights use less than incandescent? Good to know. If I upgrade to LED lighting for all turn and brake lamps, would the savings be significant or would the load resistors cancel it out?

Yes, a typical HID bulb uses only 35 watts while running. It does use considerably more during start up though.

Turn signals are the only lights that you'd need load resistors for. If you do want to switch these to LEDs and you care about the increased efficiency I would recommend skipping the load resistors and getting an electronic flasher.

[HorizonXP]

So I'm looking to pick up the Gerbings jacket liner and the heated gloves liner. They come in at 77 W and 27 W for a total of 104 W. On a stock bike, I apparently only have 88 W to work with.

I commute for 40 minutes each way (90% highway, at 120 km/h/70mph/9k rpm), sometimes longer due to traffic. I understand that by running this gear, I risk draining my battery because the alternator won't be able to charge it.

What are my options here? Should I get a battery tender to charge the bike overnight? Should I get the overpriced temperature controls, to limit the power draw?

[Alex]

Originally Posted by HorizonXP

Should I get the overpriced temperature controls, to limit the power draw?

Yes. Without a temp controller, the jacket will be uncomfortable anyway.

[g21-30]

Also, go to Gerbings discount outlet:

http://www.heatedclothingoutlet.com/index.shtml

That's where I got my jacket liner and glove liners!

I keep my bike on a battery tender pro year round, even during the riding season, when the bike is parked at home.

[headshrink]

If you are concerned about running out of power, you may want to get a gauge that reads your electrical output (you would have to mentally subtract what you are pulling from it, I think.... unless it reads what is left.

[ithaca00]

Originally Posted by headshrink

If you are concerned about running out of power, you may want to get a gauge that reads your electrical output (you would have to mentally subtract what you are pulling from it, I think.... unless it reads what is left.

Just get a voltmeter. These let you know when the charging system on the bike is no longer adequate by measuring the battery's voltage. If the system is good and you're running off of the stator the reading will be 12-14V. If it's below that then you're draining the battery.

DATEL Voltmeters are highly recommended for their accuracy and durability.

[g21-30]

^^^^ Or you can use one of the clamp-on amp meters and read what is being used realtime!

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by ithaca00

.

DATEL Voltmeters are highly recommended for their accuracy and durability.

That is not only cool LOOKING, it is significantly cheaper than I would have guessed. I might have to add it to my list!
Oh yeah.... I guess it is functional too

[NDspd]

I was wondering whether a gps would fit in, I've had no issues so far. I have a LED tail light and I removed the rear turn signals, so that helped a bit...I guess.

[camaroz1985]

GPS draws very very very little, so you don't need to worry.

[Pyro]

Originally Posted by NDspd

I was wondering whether a gps would fit in, I've had no issues so far. I have a LED tail light and I removed the rear turn signals, so that helped a bit...I guess.

A lighter socket can usually supply 12V 10A MAX - 120W, often this is actually 12V 5A, 60W. A GPS draws much less.

My phone can do at least 2 hours of GPS duty from a 1600mAh battery;
That's about 3.7Vx1.6Ah = ~6Wh.

So if your GPS draws more than 3W, I'd be very surprised.

---

Interesting thing I noticed between the EX250R-J8F and EX250R-K8F manuals' general specs.
The K (mine) is a fuel injected with 23.0A/14.0V @ 5000r/min, the J is listed as Carbureted with 19A/14V @ 5000r/min.

So the J is 19x14V max = 266W.
The K is 23x14V max = 322W.

One thing the original poster did not list, is that the engine itself actually needs power for the ignition spark.

I assume that extra 4A was considered neccesary for the fuel injection.

The K battery is also 12V 8Ah (96Wh) the J is 12V 6Ah (72Wh).

[jman511115]

Originally Posted by Pyro

A lighter socket can usually supply 12V 10A MAX - 120W, often this is actually 12V 5A, 60W. A GPS draws much less.

My phone can do at least 2 hours of GPS duty from a 1600mAh battery;
That's about 3.7Vx1.6Ah = ~6Wh.

So if your GPS draws more than 3W, I'd be very surprised.

---

Interesting thing I noticed between the EX250R-J8F and EX250R-K8F manuals' general specs.
The K (mine) is a fuel injected with 23.0A/14.0V @ 5000r/min, the J is listed as Carbureted with 19A/14V @ 5000r/min.

So the J is 19x14V max = 266W.
The K is 23x14V max = 322W.

One thing the original poster did not list, is that the engine itself actually needs power for the ignition spark.

I assume that extra 4A was considered neccesary for the fuel injection.

The K battery is also 12V 8Ah (96Wh) the J is 12V 6Ah (72Wh).

I'm no electrical guru, but do you think that difference is just in the alternator? If so, an FI alternator could prove to be a useful mod to get more juice for aftermarket toys.

[DaLumberJack]

I noticed that the loads that were quoted from the service manual in this thread did not include the ignition circuit. I removed the ignition fuse on my 2010 and plugged my multimeter in and measured the current:

at idle ~1.5 amps => 21 watts at 14V
rev'd up (no load) just under 2 amps => 28 watts at 14V

The load may go up with the engine under load, but I doubt it and if so probably not very much. However, an extra 28 watts is a considerable load not included in the original post, so I thought I would add this.

(I'm adding a radio and a 12v power plug so I've been checking into how much alternator overhead is available.)

[Pyro]

2A seems quite low. That would mean an 8A.h battery could run it for close to 4 hours?

[DaLumberJack]

Originally Posted by Pyro

2A seems quite low. That would mean an 8A.h battery could run it for close to 4 hours?

The 2 amps is just for the ignition circuit - you still have the other loads. It's just that the ignition load wasn't in the initial post and it is considerable.

[Pyro]

Originally Posted by DaLumberJack

The 2 amps is just for the ignition circuit - you still have the other loads. It's just that the ignition load wasn't in the initial post and it is considerable.

Ignition load as in needed to run the engine, right?

That's what I was referring to, and I consider 2A to be surprisingly little.

You could then strip out the generating components from a race bike and just run it off battery for several hours, or run a smaller battery.

[DaLumberJack]

If you got rid of all the lights and cooling fan, with the stock battery you should get about 4 hours with no alternator. I guy I met in college said he routinely removed alternators from race bikes to reduce the rotating mass.

As far as the 2 amp draw: I did not measure during actual engine load (i.e., bike accelerating), only reving the engine setting in the shop. It could go up with actual load, but I don't know why. It makes sense to go up with RPM since there are more sparks/second.

[Pyro]

Originally Posted by DaLumberJack

If you got rid of all the lights and cooling fan, with the stock battery you should get about 4 hours with no alternator. I guy I met in college said he routinely removed alternators from race bikes to reduce the rotating mass.

As far as the 2 amp draw: I did not measure during actual engine load (i.e., bike accelerating), only reving the engine setting in the shop. It could go up with actual load, but I don't know why. It makes sense to go up with RPM since there are more sparks/second.

Know very little about the workings of the Ninja's engine

Fuel injection would have to work harder under load, but the actual ignition could use less power if the fuel reduces resistance in the spark gap.

[g21-30]

Originally Posted by DaLumberJack

I noticed that the loads that were quoted from the service manual in this thread did not include the ignition circuit. I removed the ignition fuse on my 2010 and plugged my multimeter in and measured the current:

at idle ~1.5 amps => 21 watts at 14V
rev'd up (no load) just under 2 amps => 28 watts at 14V

The load may go up with the engine under load, but I doubt it and if so probably not very much. However, an extra 28 watts is a considerable load not included in the original post, so I thought I would add this.

(I'm adding a radio and a 12v power plug so I've been checking into how much alternator overhead is available.)

So, did you take into consideration how much load the multimeter added to the circuit, after all it was in series with the rest of the ignition circuit!

If you want to be super accurate, you should use a clamp-on amp meter at the battery. Unless you're adding a short wave vacuum tube radio to the circuit, I don't think it's going to draw more than the heated vest and glove liners that I use all winter!

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by Pyro

A lighter socket can usually supply 12V 10A MAX - 120W, often this is actually 12V 5A, 60W. A GPS draws much less.

My phone can do at least 2 hours of GPS duty from a 1600mAh battery;
That's about 3.7Vx1.6Ah = ~6Wh.

So if your GPS draws more than 3W, I'd be very surprised.

---

Interesting thing I noticed between the EX250R-J8F and EX250R-K8F manuals' general specs.
The K (mine) is a fuel injected with 23.0A/14.0V @ 5000r/min, the J is listed as Carbureted with 19A/14V @ 5000r/min.

So the J is 19x14V max = 266W.
The K is 23x14V max = 322W.

One thing the original poster did not list, is that the engine itself actually needs power for the ignition spark.

I assume that extra 4A was considered neccesary for the fuel injection.

The K battery is also 12V 8Ah (96Wh) the J is 12V 6Ah (72Wh).

To complete this information:
Alternator Ninja 300 is 21.0A/14.0V @ 5000 r/min = 294W.