Highway On-ramp Pointers

[vital2009]

Could someone walk me through their best advice on navigating the highway on-ramp? I tried one for the first time the other day, and didn't feel too good about the combo of low speed, on a downhill curve and needing to be in a good gear to take off quickly enough on the highway merge.
I'm still pretty fresh to leaning my bike around curves, although I'm improving. The long sustained curve (almost 360 degrees) was challenging!

[Alex]

Look where you want to go, be smooth on the throttle, and watch out for liquids that often pool on these onramps/offramps.

[Jay72]

@Laura,,,you live in Toronto, and are fairly new to riding I would assume if you are asking that question, my advise, stay off the highway until you are more comfortable on your bike, I just say this because I used to go from St, Catharines to Toronto weekly for years and the highway is just crazy busy all the time, and I would want to be TOTALLY comfortable before attacking the Toronto Highway systems.

[vital2009]

Originally Posted by Alex

Look where you want to go, be smooth on the throttle, and watch out for liquids that often pool on these onramps/offramps.

Thanks, Alex! If you feel you're going too fast headed down the ramp, but shouldn't brake because you're in a curve, and already in a lower gear because you anticipated the speed reduction on the ramp, what do you think is the best response, bail down your gears to first and let out the clutch slowly, feather the clutch, or just lean into the curve more?

[vital2009]

Originally Posted by Jay72

@Laura,,,you live in Toronto, and are fairly new to riding I would assume if you are asking that question, my advise, stay off the highway until you are more comfortable on your bike, I just say this because I used to go from St, Catharines to Toronto weekly for years and the highway is just crazy busy all the time, and I would want to be TOTALLY comfortable before attacking the Toronto Highway systems.

Agreed, highway commuting isn't the plan for now, but the skill is what I need to figure out right now. The slope on these downhill curves is enough to gain some acceleration, even if you don't want it, and I'm wondering the best way to keep in control of your speed on such a long curve without braking?

[EsrTek]

Originally Posted by vital2009

Thanks, Alex! If you feel you're going too fast headed down the ramp, but shouldn't brake because you're in a curve, and already in a lower gear because you anticipated the speed reduction on the ramp, what do you think is the best response, bail down your gears to first and let out the clutch slowly, feather the clutch, or just lean into the curve more?

I would probably hit the rear brake w my big toe, to trail brake it some and tighten the turn. Do not push hard, you do not want to lock the back brakes!!

[vital2009]

Originally Posted by EsrTek

I would probably hit the rear brake w my big toe, to trail brake it some and tighten the turn. Do not push hard, you do not want to lock the back brakes!!

Hmm, I did tap the rear brakes to flash the car coming up behind me, but not wanting to brake any harder is what made me hesitate (thankfully it was dry conditions that day). I assume the same skill is what you need in the twisties, so other than anticipating your speed well and getting some practice leaning a little harder, and a bit of rear brake (but careful with the turning), is there anything else a rider can do?

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by vital2009

Could someone walk me through their best advice on navigating the highway on-ramp? I tried one for the first time the other day, and didn't feel too good about the combo of low speed, on a downhill curve and needing to be in a good gear to take off quickly enough on the highway merge.
I'm still pretty fresh to leaning my bike around curves, although I'm improving. The long sustained curve (almost 360 degrees) was challenging!

Well first off, I hope that you have already taken the MSF course. One of the things they teach you is to not ride beyond your skill level. If you have limited experience/skill with curves, then its probably best to stay off the freeway until those skills improve. The MSF course will also teach you about decreasing radius curves which can be deadly.

Down here in Miami they have Dead Biker's curve which is an off ramp from I-95 with a decreasing radius. About every 6 months or so, a biker will go over the edge and fall 60 feet to his death. So learn how to corner without thinking about it before you tackle the hard stuff.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by vital2009

Thanks, Alex! If you feel you're going too fast headed down the ramp, but shouldn't brake because you're in a curve, and already in a lower gear because you anticipated the speed reduction on the ramp, what do you think is the best response, bail down your gears to first and let out the clutch slowly, feather the clutch, or just lean into the curve more?

I would not downshift during the curve, and would not downshift all the way to 1st while moving in almost any circumstance. Best option is to lean into the curve, perhaps followed by a small dab at the brakes if you're truly going too fast to navigate the curve.

Originally Posted by EsrTek

I would probably hit the rear brake w my big toe, to trail brake it some and tighten the turn. Do not push hard, you do not want to lock the back brakes!!

I'm uneasy about adding new rear brake while already leaned over in the turn, it's something that only marginally helps in speed reduction, and has huge consequences if done poorly enough to lose traction at the rear while leaned over. (also, that's not what trail braking means, here's a decent thread on that topic)

[vital2009]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Well first off, I hope that you have already taken the MSF course. One of the things they teach you is to not ride beyond your skill level. If you have limited experience/skill with curves, then its probably best to stay off the freeway until those skills improve. The MSF course will also teach you about decreasing radius curves which can be deadly.

Down here in Miami they have Dead Biker's curve which is an off ramp from I-95 with a decreasing radius. About every 6 months or so, a biker will go over the edge and fall 60 feet to his death. So learn how to corner without thinking about it before you tackle the hard stuff.

Yep, motorcycle safety course already done, for sure. Plus some extra riding pointers with a qualified instructor. Fast highway riding is not my priority, and this on-ramp was only on an 80km road anyways. Safety is most important for me as a new rider, I need to get home to my family at the end of each ride.

[n4mwd]

The purpose of light rear brakes in a turn is to keep the chain tight and not to slow down. The time to slow down is before you go into the curve. Too much rear brake in a turn is going to cause the rear to slide out. Sometimes you can recover from that and sometimes you can't.

When you keep the chain tight on a turn, you can accelerate out of the turn without the chain jerking you around. Chain jerk can also cause problems in a turn.

Also, in a turn, never downshift. If you must, do it before you start the turn.

If you forget and accidentally pull the clutch while in a turn, just ride it out with the clutch pulled in. If you try to re-engage while in a turn, it can cause the rear wheel to grab and send you sliding.

[vital2009]

Originally Posted by Alex

I would not downshift during the curve, and would not downshift all the way to 1st while moving in almost any circumstance. Best option is to lean into the curve, perhaps followed by a small dab at the brakes if you're truly going too fast to navigate the curve.

I'm uneasy about adding new rear brake while already leaned over in the turn, it's something that only marginally helps in speed reduction, and has huge consequences if done poorly enough to lose traction at the rear while leaned over.

Good to know! My speed wasn't much of an issue this time, and the on-ramp wasn't a surprise, but seeing the curve stretching out ahead, feeling that sustained lean for the first time and knowing you're only half-way through the turn with a long way to go was eye-opening though. The road itself is fairly narrow with soft shoulders, an emergency stop must be nearly impossible in that situation, so it really drives home the importance of speed and following distance!
L.

[Motofool]

Laura,

In such a long curve (360 degree) you can't accelerate to a constant rate, as is best for traction.

Rather, you need to concentrate on keeping a comfortable speed from beginning to close the end, point at which you can start moderate acceleration to help traction and to merge into the speedway traffic (with left directional lights blinking).

As you are going downhill, the bike will tend to accelerate naturally due to gravity.
However, you MUST stop that tendency before it gets out of hands.
You have the engine and the brakes to do that.

You need to find and start the curve in a gear that keeps your rpm around 7,000~8,000 as your speed remains the same.
You will need a reserve of rpm's (up to 10,000) to accelerate into the freeway without up-shifting while still turning.
If that gear is not enough to stop the bike from gaining speed downhill, you MUST use both brakes.

Since such a long curve must have a big radius and you are around the speed limit or recommended speed, the lean angle should not be acute enough as to prevent the moderate use of brakes.

Once you have the speed of the bike under control, try to stay close to the interior edge ALL the way down.
If you cross the center line, your tires may skid due to oil and fuel drips that concentrate along the center and exterior of your lane.

Look far into the turn and hold the bike with knees and feet, while you release any hard grip on the steering bar; let the bike ride the curve, you already leaned it to the proper angle and are refraining any undesired acceleration.

Keep a healthy distance from the car ahead of you, and if you had to slowdown or stop suddenly, take the time to straight the bike up and brake (even if need crossing the central line of the lane; is OK if the bike is not leaned).

Remember that lean angle increases with the square of the speed (so low speed is safety net) and that if the bike speeds up for any reason, or if the radius decreases, you must lean more and commit to keep turning (rather than try straightening the bike up and running out of the road, which is a panic reaction).

Best

[vital2009]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Laura,

In such a long curve (360 degree) you can't accelerate to a constant rate, as is best for traction.

Rather, you need to concentrate on keeping a comfortable speed from beginning to close the end, point at which you can start moderate acceleration to help traction and to merge into the speedway traffic (with left directional lights blinking).

As you are going downhill, the bike will tend to accelerate naturally due to gravity.
However, you MUST stop that tendency before it gets out of hands.
You have the engine and the brakes to do that.

You need to find and start the curve in a gear that keeps your rpm around 7,000~8,000 as your speed remains the same.
You will need a reserve of rpm's (up to 10,000) to accelerate into the freeway without up-shifting while still turning.
If that gear is not enough to stop the bike from gaining speed downhill, you MUST use both brakes.

Since such a long curve must have a big radius and you are around the speed limit or recommended speed, the lean angle should not be acute enough as to prevent the moderate use of brakes.

Once you have the speed of the bike under control, try to stay close to the interior edge ALL the way down.
If you cross the center line, your tires may skid due to oil and fuel drips that concentrate along the center and exterior of your lane.

Look far into the turn and hold the bike with knees and feet, while you release any hard grip on the steering bar; let the bike ride the curve, you already leaned it to the proper angle and are refraining any undesired acceleration.

Keep a healthy distance from the car ahead of you, and if you had to slowdown or stop suddenly, take the time to straight the bike up and brake (even if need crossing the central line of the lane; is OK if the bike is not leaned).

Remember that lean angle increases with the square of the speed (so low speed is safety net) and that if the bike speeds up for any reason, or if the radius decreases, you must lean more and commit to keep turning (rather than try straightening the bike up and running out of the road, which is a panic reaction).

Best

This is great, thanks! I'll be cautious but not fearful of using the rear brake lightly next time. If keeping a constant speed isn't possible, then it makes sense to roll off the throttle a bit once the momentum/gravity of the downhill curve kicks in, right? I like your explanations for using the inside edge of the curve and target RPMs.
Clearly leaning into the turn is the most important message here other than anticipating the road ahead and keeping your speed low when entering the on-ramp to begin with.
My "nerve for the curves" will grow with time, I'm sure.

[Boom King]

Laura, remember "slow in, fast out". Anticipation of your speed going through the curve before the entry point is critical. Pay special attention to the highway on-ramp cautionary speed signs in yellow. If they indicate a speed of 30 or 40 km/h through the ramp, you can bet that it is a pretty tight curve. Slow and shift down well before the entry point and maintain steady throttle as you enter. Keep your knees against the tank and look around the curve focusing on the exit point. As the others said, stay towards the inside of the lane and lean the bike. Be very cautious of using your brakes as this can cause you to lock up or stand up the bike and drift to the outside.

I'm still learning just like you so I can understand the nerves the first few times. Which on-ramp did you take?

[vital2009]

Originally Posted by Boom King

Laura, remember "slow in, fast out". Anticipation of your speed going through the curve before the entry point is critical. Pay special attention to the highway on-ramp cautionary speed signs in yellow. If they indicate a speed of 30 or 40 km/h through the ramp, you can bet that it is a pretty tight curve. Slow and shift down well before the entry point and maintain steady throttle as you enter. Keep your knees against the tank and look around the curve focusing on the exit point. As the others said, stay towards the inside of the lane and lean the bike. Be very cautious of using your brakes as this can cause you to lock up or stand up the bike and drift to the outside.

I'm still learning just like you so I can understand the nerves the first few times. Which on-ramp did you take?

Hey Anson!
Yes, makes sense that a 30km speed limit would indicate a tight curve, steep incline, variable grade or all of the above. I'm confident my speed and gear was good going into the turn, but the acceleration I gained on the downhill curve even when rolling back on the throttle was more than I expected and a bit un-nerving. I was on the near 360 degree on-Hwy 10 where the 410 meets and merges into Hwy 10 North of Brampton, on my way out to Belfountain. I'll try it again under the right conditions, but this definitely helps me to figure out the whole downhill riding skills. It's hard to practice hills when you take your M1 exit course in a parking lot!

[alex.s]

WOT. aim for the black spots, they make your tires make cool sounds and your bike do fun things. </sarcasm>

[vital2009]

Originally Posted by alex.s

WOT. aim for the black spots, they make your tires make cool sounds and your bike do fun things. </sarcasm>

Sure, you first. Haha

[razorgamez]

What I usually do when the bike starts rolling faster on the downhill curve is that I shift up to match the engine speed to road speed and then use a very very tiny amount of brakes to maintain the speed. One thing though, only shift up if for example the engine is about 8-9k rpms just to keep up with the road speed. Otherwise just use the brakes as mentioned. Also when braking make sure you dont break too hard or you can run into some serious trouble.

PS: When did they expand hwy 410 all the way up to hurontario/Hwy10...I havent been to brampton in a long long time (in SF now). I used to live by Mayfield Rd and Goreway drive, so fairly familiar with the whole area!

Originally Posted by vital2009

Hey Anson!
Yes, makes sense that a 30km speed limit would indicate a tight curve, steep incline, variable grade or all of the above. I'm confident my speed and gear was good going into the turn, but the acceleration I gained on the downhill curve even when rolling back on the throttle was more than I expected and a bit un-nerving. I was on the near 360 degree on-Hwy 10 where the 410 meets and merges into Hwy 10 North of Brampton, on my way out to Belfountain. I'll try it again under the right conditions, but this definitely helps me to figure out the whole downhill riding skills. It's hard to practice hills when you take your M1 exit course in a parking lot!

[vital2009]

Originally Posted by razorgamez

What I usually do when the bike starts rolling faster on the downhill curve is that I shift up to match the engine speed to road speed and then use a very very tiny amount of brakes to maintain the speed. One thing though, only shift up if for example the engine is about 8-9k rpms just to keep up with the road speed. Otherwise just use the brakes as mentioned. Also when braking make sure you dont break too hard or you can run into some serious trouble.

PS: When did they expand hwy 410 all the way up to hurontario/Hwy10...I havent been to brampton in a long long time (in SF now). I used to live by Mayfield Rd and Goreway drive, so fairly familiar with the whole area!

Hey Neal, The weather here in March was so great for a week or two that everyone got their bikes out earlier than usual (although temps have dropped again for now) I think they finished the 410-Hwy 10 connection a few years back, it now heads West and meets up with Hwy 10 just North of Mayfield Rd. Sounds like you would enter into one of these turns in low gear, 2nd or 3rd?

[razorgamez]

Yep, I usually enter in 2nd or 3rd.

Originally Posted by vital2009

Hey Neal, The weather here in March was so great for a week or two that everyone got their bikes out earlier than usual (although temps have dropped again for now) I think they finished the 410-Hwy 10 connection a few years back, it now heads West and meets up with Hwy 10 just North of Mayfield Rd. Sounds like you would enter into one of these turns in low gear, 2nd or 3rd?

[reaperw]

Or you can go a littler later at night just before the sun goes down,do the posted speed limit on the on ramp go 1 exit then get off and return to the same spot.this way you will get use to the ramps.speed a little more each time but always look where you want to go.


Later at night mean alot less cars on the road