My 2005 EX-250 with fuel injection.... - Page 2

greg737 · January 4th, 2010, 06:07 PM

I understand your interest in seeing dyno numbers on a classic EX-250 with fuel injection. When I've got the thing all wraped up, perfectly tuned, and I call it "officially finished" I'll probably end up wanting to see the numbers myself.

Although, I really wouldn't expect to see anything very surprising. I didn't go into this project with horsepower as a goal, and the benefits of fuel injection are mainly realized in things like better throttle response. I just wanted to do it and see it work. To take it from "what if" to "my daily ride"

nate-bama · January 5th, 2010, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg737

I understand your interest in seeing dyno numbers on a classic EX-250 with fuel injection. When I've got the thing all wraped up, perfectly tuned, and I call it "officially finished" I'll probably end up wanting to see the numbers myself.

Although, I really wouldn't expect to see anything very surprising. I didn't go into this project with horsepower as a goal, and the benefits of fuel injection are mainly realized in things like better throttle response. I just wanted to do it and see it work. To take it from "what if" to "my daily ride"

well I'd say your well on your way!

sprale · January 12th, 2010, 03:33 PM

Wonderful, glad to see a great project like this done so well.

randomwalk101 · January 12th, 2010, 04:22 PM

more update please

I love FI.. I can't wait for some drop in FI kit available to rip out my carb and put in the FI...

spooph · September 3rd, 2010, 01:40 PM

Greg, brilliant! Absolutely brilliant!

This might be a silly question, but what is the "stock A/F" set at. I mean, the number that Kawi designs for/around. 12:1? 14:1? And how is this number affected by what you expect from the bike. For instance, under greater throttle position sensor values, does it lean out the mixture = mo powa = greater accel, and at smaller throttle position sensor values it richens it back up to cool the engine down a bit, or are your values not that exacerbated?

I'm very interested in this, very much for the same reasons you were/are. Tinkering with something and making it better than the factory provided is, without taking into account the green of course, is what I really like to do.

natek · August 31st, 2011, 08:56 AM

updates?

greg737 · August 31st, 2011, 09:49 AM

I've got a couple of videos. One was short (about 4 minutes) that I shot because I really liked the way the bike sounds. I mounted the camera about mid-bike so the mike could get both the "intake honk" from the FI throttlebody breathing in through the K&N 0990 filter and the exhaust sound from the Area P long-quiet SS system. So the view during the video was only of my boot. It got a bit of a confused reaction. Oh well.

I posted it on page 3 of the " EFI KIT for our 250r " thread over in the 2008+ forum which I see you've visited so I'm pretty sure you've seen it. http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...t=74579&page=3. Of course the video sounds better on a computer with good speakers, a laptop just doesn't cut it. As you can tell from the clip the bike runs great, so far I couldn't be happier with my experiment. It pulls hard to 13,500 RPM (as high as I'm willing to regularly take it).

The other video I'm still putting together is a walk-through explaination of the bits and pieces and how I put them all together. I haven't uploaded it yet. It's pretty long which may cause the short-attention-span crowd some problems. Might get a few snarky comments just like my "boot-ride sound clip" video, but regardless I do plan to have it up within a few days.

Well, project status: In late winter, spring and summer I've been riding it a pretty good bit, getting the Volumetric Efficiency and Air/Fuel ratio tables tuned and learning a thing or two about how the bike performs. When the summer temperatures arrived I found that the bike's fuel system had a little heat problem.

Somewhere in the plumbing of the fuel system there's one spot that heats up the most and it vaporizes the fuel at that location. Since the fuel pump isn't capable of pumping fuel vapor (rather than liquid fuel) the bike stalls. I have to wait by the roadside for about 5 or so minutes while the lines cool and it will crank right up again. On the highway it has never done this, even on the hottest day we've had this year, but during low speed criusing or stop-and-go it's a problem.

Obviously the fuel system falls just short of having enough cooling effect but I'm confident the fuel cooler will knock off enough heat energy to keep it running in any type of riding with any air temperature Mother nature can dish out.

The bike ran great in the late winter and spring, both around town and on longer (70-100 mile) rides. But it just can't handle slow riding speeds at temps above about 86 degrees.

The bike's fuel system is loops back on itself, but never returns to the fuel tank. When I was originally laying out the system I knew that there could possibly be fuel heating problems so I did two things: 1. I purchased a very small fluid cooler (Flexalite 4130) to modify (shorten by cutting it down) and install if necessary, and 2. I left room right under the K&N Air Filter to mount the cooler.

I'll include the fuel cooler work in my "walk around" video.

choneofakind · August 31st, 2011, 01:11 PM

now that is officially the most ingenious thing I have EVER seen done to a pre-gen 250. Congrats on the hard work and time and thought actually becoming a reality. Until Kawi comes out with an injected 250 for the states, or I actually have the money to have a euro-spec bike imported, I will

and dream about your bike of awesomeness.

i love it

January 12th, 2010, 03:33 PM	#43
sprale Dead-thread Necromancer! Name: Levon Location: Central Texas Join Date: Sep 2008 Motorcycle(s): K5 V-Strom Posts: 144 Blog Entries: 3	Wonderful, glad to see a great project like this done so well. __________________________________________________ Dead-thread Necromancer! 2007 Kawasaki Ninja EX250 ZG250 Quarter-Concours commuter Gone 2005 Suzuki V-Strom DL1000 Big Black Vee future hack?

September 3rd, 2010, 01:40 PM	#45
spooph ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Spooph Location: Golden, CO Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot. MOTM - Oct '15	Greg, brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! This might be a silly question, but what is the "stock A/F" set at. I mean, the number that Kawi designs for/around. 12:1? 14:1? And how is this number affected by what you expect from the bike. For instance, under greater throttle position sensor values, does it lean out the mixture = mo powa = greater accel, and at smaller throttle position sensor values it richens it back up to cool the engine down a bit, or are your values not that exacerbated? I'm very interested in this, very much for the same reasons you were/are. Tinkering with something and making it better than the factory provided is, without taking into account the green of course, is what I really like to do. __________________________________________________ My therapist has 2 wheels and a seat. If you are ever in doubt to my tone, please refer to my avatar.

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January 4th, 2010, 06:07 PM	#41
greg737 - Name: - Location: - Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): - Posts: A lot.	I understand your interest in seeing dyno numbers on a classic EX-250 with fuel injection. When I've got the thing all wraped up, perfectly tuned, and I call it "officially finished" I'll probably end up wanting to see the numbers myself. Although, I really wouldn't expect to see anything very surprising. I didn't go into this project with horsepower as a goal, and the benefits of fuel injection are mainly realized in things like better throttle response. I just wanted to do it and see it work. To take it from "what if" to "my daily ride"

January 12th, 2010, 04:22 PM	#44
randomwalk101 self wrencher Name: john Location: houston Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 250r and 07 600r Posts: A lot.	more update please I love FI.. I can't wait for some drop in FI kit available to rip out my carb and put in the FI...

August 31st, 2011, 08:56 AM	#46
natek ninjette.org member Name: nathan Location: Springfield IL Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): Honda Ruckus Posts: 35	updates?

August 31st, 2011, 09:49 AM	#47
greg737 - Name: - Location: - Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): - Posts: A lot.	I've got a couple of videos. One was short (about 4 minutes) that I shot because I really liked the way the bike sounds. I mounted the camera about mid-bike so the mike could get both the "intake honk" from the FI throttlebody breathing in through the K&N 0990 filter and the exhaust sound from the Area P long-quiet SS system. So the view during the video was only of my boot. It got a bit of a confused reaction. Oh well. I posted it on page 3 of the " EFI KIT for our 250r " thread over in the 2008+ forum which I see you've visited so I'm pretty sure you've seen it. http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...t=74579&page=3. Of course the video sounds better on a computer with good speakers, a laptop just doesn't cut it. As you can tell from the clip the bike runs great, so far I couldn't be happier with my experiment. It pulls hard to 13,500 RPM (as high as I'm willing to regularly take it). The other video I'm still putting together is a walk-through explaination of the bits and pieces and how I put them all together. I haven't uploaded it yet. It's pretty long which may cause the short-attention-span crowd some problems. Might get a few snarky comments just like my "boot-ride sound clip" video, but regardless I do plan to have it up within a few days. Well, project status: In late winter, spring and summer I've been riding it a pretty good bit, getting the Volumetric Efficiency and Air/Fuel ratio tables tuned and learning a thing or two about how the bike performs. When the summer temperatures arrived I found that the bike's fuel system had a little heat problem. Somewhere in the plumbing of the fuel system there's one spot that heats up the most and it vaporizes the fuel at that location. Since the fuel pump isn't capable of pumping fuel vapor (rather than liquid fuel) the bike stalls. I have to wait by the roadside for about 5 or so minutes while the lines cool and it will crank right up again. On the highway it has never done this, even on the hottest day we've had this year, but during low speed criusing or stop-and-go it's a problem. Obviously the fuel system falls just short of having enough cooling effect but I'm confident the fuel cooler will knock off enough heat energy to keep it running in any type of riding with any air temperature Mother nature can dish out. The bike ran great in the late winter and spring, both around town and on longer (70-100 mile) rides. But it just can't handle slow riding speeds at temps above about 86 degrees. The bike's fuel system is loops back on itself, but never returns to the fuel tank. When I was originally laying out the system I knew that there could possibly be fuel heating problems so I did two things: 1. I purchased a very small fluid cooler (Flexalite 4130) to modify (shorten by cutting it down) and install if necessary, and 2. I left room right under the K&N Air Filter to mount the cooler. I'll include the fuel cooler work in my "walk around" video.

August 31st, 2011, 01:11 PM	#48
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	now that is officially the most ingenious thing I have EVER seen done to a pre-gen 250. Congrats on the hard work and time and thought actually becoming a reality. Until Kawi comes out with an injected 250 for the states, or I actually have the money to have a euro-spec bike imported, I will and dream about your bike of awesomeness. i love it