Bad day...

[CZroe]

tail_scuff.jpg

I twisted my thumb pretty badly (out of the socket and back in) and couldn't even cancel my turn indicators on the motorcycle, so I left in my sister's car when I went to pick up an order from Best Buy. When I returned around 1PM, the enclosed dumpster I parkmy bike behind was full (assigned parking spaces in a condo lot). When I came back out several hours later, one of the two lids to the dumpster was missing and the trash had been emptied. When open, it dangles over the edge of the enclosure and over my bike in the parking space beside it, so I immediately inspected my bike for damage and found dark scuff marks all over the right side tail piece... the very same piece I replaced less than a couple months ago for a much smaller/more minor blemish.

I noticed months ago that the lid hinge was bad on one side of the dumpster and mentioned it to the garbage truck operator the last two or three times I saw one. They did nothing. The lid is completely gone... not lying in my space, behind, underneath, or around the dumpster, or anything, so I'm pretty sure it happened when the dumpster was emptied.

Waste Management INSISTED that the dumpsters are owned by the condo HOA/Management, despite being serviced by them almost daily and being emblazoned with their logo and phone number. Actually, they saiud "owned and rented," which sounds like an oxymoron to me (unless they are rented TO waste management by the property owners... ridiculous). He insisted that their contract put 100% responsibility on the HOA/Management for any issues arriving out of the dumpster or its placement, even if I told the drivers about the problem (honestly, who better to fix the problem than the dumpster's own supplier? Who else even could?!). I said that in that case I could really use their driver as a witness, considering that there is no lid around to show cause/contact. I even said that if he truly is not liable, then he should have no problem providing a statement for the HOA/Management. I didn't even get a note on the bike. The call center guy just insisted that he doesn't even owe me that because the driver is not liable. I explained that, if true, I am not saying that he owes me anything. I am simply asking him to do his duty as a concerned witness like I would if I witnessed an accident and had no other liability, fault, or involvement. He just said that he's from a call center in Phoenix and couldn't tell me who was there even if he wanted to. So what?! SOMEONE can. Tell me who can. Who can I contact NEXT to find my witness?! Grrr.

Anyway, I called the HOA, Howerton Management, and, sure enough, they said that Waste Management is responsible, just like I thought in the first place. Now I'm caught in between their blame-swap. They can't just say stuff is in the contract and blow me off without it being true, so I sure hope that there are some reprecusions. It's probably the cheapest fairing on the bike but I don't even want to see if it'll mostly clean/polish off until at least someone responsible has seen it as is. It's not like an $80 part is going to require subpeonas to find my witness (or at-fault person, depending on who you believe), but this is ridiculous.

Talking to neighbors, I now know that the lid was missing and the dumpster emptied before 5PM, so that means it was between 1PM and 5PM. Doesn't help me much if I can't prove that it happened when the dumpster was emptied, though it is pretty obvious.

Yes, I took pics and video. Edit: Added

Link to original page on YouTube.

[bob706]

If you think it's worth the time and effort then fight them on it. Your probably gonna have an easier time getting a new spot or getting the hoa to get the lids fixed. Unless you have WM on video fooking stuff up you can pretty much forget it. Those drivers don't care about anything and from the sound of your conversation with them, neither does the company.

[Betlog]

Dude, sorry to hear. It sucks hearing stories like this since we work so hard for our stuff and other people just don't care.

[ScraitT]

I actually worked for WM for a while (they bought out the company I was working for). I worked for WM for about 3 months as a sales rep before I was let go (sooo glad to be let go...waaay to much corporate BS there).

The management company COULD own the cans, but it is very, very, very rare (did I stress very?). It makes no sense for them to own the can. The only equipment you usually see a customer own is compactors, because the month rent on a compactor is very high and the maintenance is higher.
That said, I'm 99.99% sure that WM owns the can. I never once saw a customer owned can (unless is was for a compaction unit).

WM is at fault and is responsible for the damage. The problem is proving it. The driver will not own up to it, even if he isn't at fault. WM has a zero tolerance policy and the driver WILL be reprimanded for it. So there's no way in hell he is going to willingly state that he was involved.
The driver, however, is most likely at fault. It is the drivers responsibility to note anything going wrong with a can, from broken wheels, rusted out bottoms, broken lock bars, and broken lids.

The only way the management company would be at fault is if the placement of the can gives the WM driver no option of dumping the can safely without hitting something. But if that's the case, it should be clearly noted on the contract that WM isn't at fault. That won't be in the fine print on the back, it will be written on the front of the contract as a statement.

The problem is proving it. And even if you can, you aren't the paying customer, so they won't want to listen to you and IF you do get through, it'll be a LONG time before you get paid.

Your best and probably ONLY bet is to get your management company to talk to WM for you. You pay the management company, it's their job to help you. They pay WM, it's WMs job to please them. Management company's have HUGE pull too since they have multiple cans and usually multiple properties. Some of the management companies I dealt with paid upwards of 100,000 a month for their garbage. Your management company has the leverage to tell WM to fix a cheap $100 piece....you dont.

[FrugalNinja250]

Another option is small claims court. Once you submit formal notice to them via a process server that you're filing a claim, they may be willing to just pay for their damage to your bike rather than tie up one of their $200/hour lawyers for a day in court.

In the future, always photodocument everything, such as damaged hinges, etc, and video it as well. Companies like WM will roll over and beg once hard evidence such as video shows up.

[CZroe]

Good news... the nasty bruise from my sprained thumb is starting to go away. Doesn't feel much better though (still have trouble canceling my turn signals).

sprained_thumb.jpg

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by bob706

If you think it's worth the time and effort then fight them on it. Your probably gonna have an easier time getting a new spot or getting the hoa to get the lids fixed. Unless you have WM on video fooking stuff up you can pretty much forget it. Those drivers don't care about anything and from the sound of your conversation with them, neither does the company.

I actually like the spot because it limits visibility from the street and I can anchor things to the dumpster enclosure if need be (like a locked metal storage box).

Originally Posted by ScraitT

I actually worked for WM for a while (they bought out the company I was working for). I worked for WM for about 3 months as a sales rep before I was let go (sooo glad to be let go...waaay to much corporate BS there).

The management company COULD own the cans, but it is very, very, very rare (did I stress very?). It makes no sense for them to own the can. The only equipment you usually see a customer own is compactors, because the month rent on a compactor is very high and the maintenance is higher.
That said, I'm 99.99% sure that WM owns the can. I never once saw a customer owned can (unless is was for a compaction unit).

WM is at fault and is responsible for the damage. The problem is proving it. The driver will not own up to it, even if he isn't at fault. WM has a zero tolerance policy and the driver WILL be reprimanded for it. So there's no way in hell he is going to willingly state that he was involved.
The driver, however, is most likely at fault. It is the drivers responsibility to note anything going wrong with a can, from broken wheels, rusted out bottoms, broken lock bars, and broken lids.

The only way the management company would be at fault is if the placement of the can gives the WM driver no option of dumping the can safely without hitting something. But if that's the case, it should be clearly noted on the contract that WM isn't at fault. That won't be in the fine print on the back, it will be written on the front of the contract as a statement.

The problem is proving it. And even if you can, you aren't the paying customer, so they won't want to listen to you and IF you do get through, it'll be a LONG time before you get paid.

Your best and probably ONLY bet is to get your management company to talk to WM for you. You pay the management company, it's their job to help you. They pay WM, it's WMs job to please them. Management company's have HUGE pull too since they have multiple cans and usually multiple properties. Some of the management companies I dealt with paid upwards of 100,000 a month for their garbage. Your management company has the leverage to tell WM to fix a cheap $100 piece....you dont.

Well, Howerton Management said they'd call me back about it and yet they have not. Time to pester them again so that they will pester WM on my behalf. The driver did fail to note the issue, which has been obvious for months. One side of the lid was completely disconnected but the iron bar was strong enough to support it anyway... the only normal force that could have bent it like that was being swung upside down and right side up again during the dumping process, which is obviously when it lost the lid. Even so, I made sure to say something about it more than once when I crossed paths with the WM guys and yet it remained unfixed until this happened. TOTALLY preventable... I wasn't even parking there at the time (switched spots with my sister)!

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

Another option is small claims court. Once you submit formal notice to them via a process server that you're filing a claim, they may be willing to just pay for their damage to your bike rather than tie up one of their $200/hour lawyers for a day in court.

In the future, always photodocument everything, such as damaged hinges, etc, and video it as well. Companies like WM will roll over and beg once hard evidence such as video shows up.

Well, I have a lot of witnesses that the lid went unaddressed for a long time but, honestly, the damage may mostly polish off and probably isn't even big enough for small claims court ($60 + some rubber well nuts?). I may have taken some pictures earlier but I will have to look for them.

[ScraitT]

Ya, that's a very common problem with cans. The driver SHOULD have reported it, especially if people have complained, but they never do. Down here 90% of the drivers don't speak a word of English anyways.

The main issue I see is that it looks impossible to hit your bike unless the lid had completely flew of the can, which is what I am assuming happened. If that happened, where is the lid??? If it's nowhere to be found, then I would assume the driver grabbed it and threw it in the truck.
Generally that would be instant job loss since he is covering up and accident that should have been reported...but looking at the pics, if the lid flew off and hit your bike, but was laying on the floor, he may have not noticed any damage on your bike and just assumed it landed on the floor. So I don't want to jump to conclusions and say he was covering it up.

But if the lid flew off and hit your bike, WM is 100% at fault and your management company should have no problem getting WM to pay up. Thats a very very small claim in comparison to the claims covered when I was in the business.

[CZroe]

Yeah. The lid is completely missing. I looked in, around, behind, and under the dumpster and the enclosure area. It was there before the trash was taken (attached and in place but with the hinge detached on one side, as it had been for months) and completely gone after, so that means that it was most likely taken by the driver. Someone also had to bend that rod inward like that.

Thanks for the insight.

[LuxMundi]

I would write strongly worded, but POLITE, letters to the parties concerned. Follow up, but don't hope for much, honestly. They can just delay long enough, and realistically, at some point:

Your TIME X Your rate of Pay + costs(postage/legal) > DAMAGE

then you need to cut your losses.

Sorry this happened, it's just the "life tax" that we all pay from time to time.

[dimeified]

break out the tape recorder, call them on threeway, inform them they are being recorded, and ask them to settle over the phone who owns the dumpsters.

[Gravity]

Eh you got lucky, my ex gf's dad got his mustang destroyed by a WM garbage truck, the lady driving it dropped the dumpster on it then drove into it.

[KJohnson21]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Interesting portrait of the little dog (Cat?). (Look in lower left hand corner.)


Hopefully you can get some help from the management company without making a total pest of yourself. Unfortunately that might be what it takes to keep them active on it.

Good luck.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by KJohnson21

Interesting portrait of the little dog (Cat?). (Look in lower left hand corner.)


Hopefully you can get some help from the management company without making a total pest of yourself. Unfortunately that might be what it takes to keep them active on it.

Good luck.

Neither... it's a Pom-chi "rat." XD Oh, my sister is going to hate me if she reads this.

sachi_on_bike.jpg

[welcome2thedawn]

not that the garbage company shouldn't have to take responsibility for messing up your bike, but if you don't already have stuff to polish the scuff marks, this is a great place to find everything you need http://www.autogeek.net/motorcyclecare.html

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by welcome2thedawn

not that the garbage company shouldn't have to take responsibility for messing up your bike, but if you don't already have stuff to polish the scuff marks, this is a great place to find everything you need http://www.autogeek.net/motorcyclecare.html

Thanks for the link. I think I'm going to get one of their brake dust brushes because my blue wheels always look terrible after only a few short rides. As for the polish, I need to make a thread when I'm ready because I don't know where to start or what to order!

[CZroe]

Well, I washed and rubbed to no avail but it polished right away with some rubbing polish (I think I used Duck Tape brand from Autozone). Waste Management got lucky. What concerns me is that the dumpster lid is STILL broken/missing.

[TygaUSA.com]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Well, I washed and rubbed to no avail but it polished right away with some rubbing polish (I think I used Duck Tape brand from Autozone). Waste Management got lucky. What concerns me is that the dumpster lid is STILL broken/missing.

Glad to hear...in the future on stuff like that, try using a clay bar, it will usually come out!

[CZroe]

FWIW, we finally got a new dumpster a couple weeks ago. They never fixed the lid on the old one.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Noob

That sucks. Next time, use "Goof-Off". It removes almost anything that you dont want on a surface.

Despite the color, it was actually scuffs in the clear coat with embedded plastic so it needed to be polished off. Normal rubbing compound worked great though.

["A"]

I would have looked for another spot to park a month ago when you noticed the potential problem.. that's just me.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by "A"

I would have looked for another spot to park a month ago when you noticed the potential problem.. that's just me.

It is assigned parking only where I live so I am not allowed to park anywhere else here.

I did what I could when I brought it to their attention before the incident. They're lucky it polished out.

["A"]

Originally Posted by CZroe

It's assigned parking.

So you're saying that for a month you've been trying to get a different spot assigned to you and still no luck?

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by "A"

So you're saying that for a month you've been trying to get a different spot assigned to you and still no luck?

I guess I didn't edit fast enough above.

The answer is "no" because they are independently owned condos and each condo is sold with a specific space (some have two). I'd have to buy a neighbor's condo to get a different parking space! Even then, I rent the condo from the owner. My sister's/room-mate's space is the very next one on the other side of the dumpster, so switching wouldn't do any good.

["A"]

Originally Posted by CZroe

I guess I didn't edit fast enough above.

The answer is "no" because they are independently owned condos and each condo is sold with a specific space (some have two). I'd have to buy a neighbor's condo to get a different parking space! Even then, I rent the condo from the owner. My sister's/room-mate's space is the very next one on the other side of the dumpster, so switching wouldn't do any good.

I would have gotten the condo association and the owner of the condo involved from the beginning..