So How 'Bout that COVID-19?

[Snake]

@CaliGrrl I’m glad to hear everyone tested negative. I hear that California is one of the States offering booster shots.

My Christmas wish is that all ninjetters and their loved ones stay safe.

[CaliGrrl]

So far the boosters are for older people or those at risk with co-morbidities. Hoping for approval for everybody soon.

[tfkrocks]

Originally Posted by CaliGrrl

So far the boosters are for older people or those at risk with co-morbidities. Hoping for approval for everybody soon.

Also for anyone 18+ who got the J&J vaccine

[Alex]

Originally Posted by CaliGrrl

So far the boosters are for older people or those at risk with co-morbidities. Hoping for approval for everybody soon.

This has changed in the past week. Everyone is eligible to get boosters.

https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID...-Boosters.aspx

Updates as of November 16, 2021:

To align with California guidance.

COVID-19 Booster vaccines are recommended following the primary vaccination series for specific populations, as outlined below.

Who:
A Booster dose of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine is recommended if you:

Received your second dose at least six months ago, and
Are age 18+ and are risk of COVID-19 exposure

A Booster dose of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine is recommended if you:

Received your first dose of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine at least two months ago, and
Are 18 or older

[Snake]

I thought it had changed. Well that is very good news.

[CaliGrrl]

This stuff is changing all the time, as we learn more. Trying to keep up with it is hard. I worked with a vaccine clinic on Saturday, and we did 200+ covid shots and 100+ flu shots.

Now to make appointments for husband and myself.

[Snake]

The CDC and state officials are asking people to get their third while there are still people out there that haven’t even had their first shot.

With the above being said and this may sound strange from someone that has chosen to get now a third shot, I believe that it should be a personal choice wether to get the shot.

I laugh when I see “experts” say that my shot protects others. My shot protects me.

[CaliGrrl]

Vaccinations do protect everybody- it reduces the likelihood of new variants coming up.

[Snake]

Wow now we have a new variant! Will this ever end?

[Alex]

I guess that there's an infinite amount of future possibilities, but here are 3 broad options, and it's too early to tell what's most likely (if any of these 3). 1st option is worst case: Variants continue to not only occur, but mutate into particular strains that are both very transmissive, deadly, and unhindered by current vaccines. 2nd option is variants continue to occur, and some of them are as transmissive and deadly as existing - but existing vaccines work well enough that impact is "manageable", until more targeted vaccines/therapies can be developed and implemented. 3rd option is a variant comes to be that is extremely transmissive, but turns out to not be particularly harmful to most - and that variant becomes so widespread that it drowns out the growth/spread of the existing variants we are more worried about.

We might be receiving targeted COVID vaccines/boosters yearly for the rest of our lifetimes, similar to todays flu vaccine recommendations. Or perhaps a therapy might be developed that can prevent the need for high vaccine compliance, if the therapy for those that do get sick is effective and available.

I think the biggest thing that Omicron is telling us is that while the fatigue of dealing with this crap for 18+ months has worn down both the individual and collective patience of many, the sad truth is that we may be much further from the "end" of all this than all of us would hope.

We'll all have more info on how it worked out when we look back to this time period from mid '22 or so.

[Snake]

So far it’s looking like the Omicron variant falls into option 3. Some experts are saying that a highly transmissible variant with mild symptoms could give us the “heard immunity “ we are looking for. Everyone gets it and develop antibodies.

[Snake]

So far infections from the Omicron variant have been mild with no deaths. Let’s hope it stays that way.

[Alex]

No longer the case. UK confirmed one yesterday. These waves are never immediate; the hospitalizations and then the resulting deaths always lag a few weeks. The hope is that throughout this wave both up and back down - that deaths from Omicron infection stay low - but zero was never going to be a real-world result.

[Snake]

I guess I was being a little too optimistic.

From what I’ve read, it took 3 years for the “Spanish Flu” pandemic of 1918 to get under control .

[Snake]

The experts are saying that Omicron will eventually be the dominant variant due to it’s high transmissibility.

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by Alex

I think the biggest thing that Omicron is telling us is that while the fatigue of dealing with this crap for 18+ months has worn down both the individual and collective patience of many, the sad truth is that we may be much further from the "end" of all this than all of us would hope.

My microbiology teacher in college (1970s) told us that the end of mankind won't be nuclear war or some terrible weather event, or an asteroid colliding with the earth, it will be caused by microbes. He pointed out that we had eliminated one killer, which was smallpox, while many new microbe based diseases had popped up in the meantime.

I feel that we're all lucky that SARS-CoV-2 hasn't so far decided to kill 90% of us, rather something around 2% of those who get COVID. For that reason I probably won't get impatient or complain about having to wear a mask or having to get vaccines if I want to get some amount of immunity without getting sick. And I'm grateful that people are working hard to make vaccines and anti-viral drugs available.

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by CaliGrrl

Vaccinations do protect everybody- it reduces the likelihood of new variants coming up.

Right, and they also reduce the chance of getting COVID so you're less likely to spread it. Yes, you can still spread COVID if you're vaccinated, but you are less likely to.

[Snake]

+1 for vaccinations

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Snake

The experts are saying that Omicron will eventually be the dominant variant due to it’s high transmissibility.

They are no longer saying eventually. It already is.

Omicron variant accounts for 73 percent of new Covid cases in U.S.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...es-us-rcna9434

Good news for now is that while it appears to be insanely communicative, it is less deadly, and fully vaccinated people are unlikely to see serious complications. It remains an unsolved math problem of how bad a disease that we'll all likely get (but won't significantly hurt many/most of us), is compared to a disease that less of us get - but impacts us more (like Delta, or even other non-covid examples).

[Snake]

With more people getting vaccinated and people catching Covid and recovering, “heard immunity “ should be increasing.

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by Snake

With more people getting vaccinated and people catching Covid and recovering, “heard immunity “ should be increasing.

Maybe... if getting one variant helps immunity to the next variant.

[Bob KellyIII]

For some people this pandemic has been a "ultra nightmare !" the fella that was going to trade his KLR 650 for my Honda 4x4 Quad backed off due to issues at home.... so I gave it a rest for a month or two and emailed him to see what his intentions were....
he informs me that after he caught covid ,which he got from one of his 4 kids
the rest of his kids caught it and then his wife caught it even though she had the shots and booster ! it's been 3 to 4 months of everyone in the house being sick for those guys.... he is back at work now but the bills have stacked up so high that he is just barely keeping food on the table and getting the bills paid
.....
while myself I haven't had the booster yet because it is not available in the back of beyond yet....
so this hasn't been a very good year for some. that is for sure !
....
but wearing a mask is stupid beyond words ! it's like putting up a chain-link fence to keep out mosquitos !!!!
....but I have to wear one if I want to go into stores ...even though I've had my shots ! why ? to reassure others I've done my part??? that is the only possible good wearing a mask does ! ..... sense when is the state worried what the people think ? it never cared what the people thought before !....
this is silly beyond words !
.....
My big question is where have all the workers gone ? they must still be sitting on unemployment and staying at home the big problem now is NO WORKERS.... no truck drivers and no restaurant people ...no one wants to go to work any more ..... every business up here is short handed in a big way.
.....I can understand not wanting to work for a living....that but good grief everyone all at once ? it couldn't happen at a worse time ....
....
from what I have been able to understand the Covid thing is just a real bad case of the flu..... it only kills off the extremely old or ones with existing medical issues .... which means making shots mandatory totally wrong it's not a life threatening sickness.... it's a bad flu... that's all but we have been inundated by scare tactics to get everyone to comply.... and it has not helped a bit ... it's still going on !
.....our government dropped the ball on this one ! they did only one thing right and that is push the vaccines through faster.... but that's only good if the vaccines actually work and are not placeboes !
....
that's my 2 coppers
I'm sick of it and want it to end !
....
Bob......

[DannoXYZ]

My high-school buddy drives trucks for Swift and he says orders for shipments dropped way off in early 2020. Proctor & Gamble just stopped shipments. There were huge lines of trucks on side of Hwy-5 just sitting around waiting for work. All these out-of-work truck drivers had to go find work elsewhere. Lack of truck drivers is effect of stopping shipments, not cause of them.

Well, my 101-yr old grandma caught original strain and recovered. I'm still waiting for Canadian border to open up so I can go visit her for 102nd B-day.

We had to cancel 2021 trip to visit family in Australia because borders were closed

My previous boss in Santa Barbara caught it mid-2020. Said it was worse flu he's ever had. I gotta go visit. Some of best foods I've ever had was in Santa Barbara!

I caught it when I was in Hong Kong for New Years at start of this whole mess. Didn't even know it until I got tested a year later. I did get to feast on swan!

[Bob KellyIII]

LOL makes you wonder WHY they stopped shipments in the first place ?
no one there to ship it perhaps ?
I know that was walmarts big problem for a long time... they had the stuff in the back room and in trucks waiting to unload but no one to unload it !
it seamed everyone quit all at once....
and I completely understand that because I wasted decades of my life working for companies in a dead end job for minimum wage there is no incentive to stay with a company like that, and walmart is one of them !
....
but it's like all of a sudden the working class realised " no job is worth this "
and quit.... how does society do that ?
....
the lumber crises was manufactured by "players" that eventually lost their fortunes and turned loose of it and it quickly went back to normal
but in their control they wanted $136.00 per sheet of 3/4" cdx plywood
the same stuff I can buy now for $33.00 but that is entirely different than the general happenings in our nation .... it's like everyone wants to work at home and make Millions ..... the funny thing is it seams to be working for alot of them .... i dunno how they do it but they have more money than I've ever seen !
....
I had the flu bad once as a young man in highschool and it took me out for a good solid week bed ridden for 3/4 of that time I was willing to die man it was bad ! going at both ends for 4 days straight it was the meanest flu I ever had ! (you didn't go to the doctor for just the flu in those days you just toughed it out) and this covid is supposed to be worse ? no thank you I'll take the shot willingly !!! LOL
....
but like the flu I don't think we will ever be done with it . it will hang on for eternity .
it's here to stay ...so why the masks ?

....
Bob....

[CaliGrrl]

During the lockdowns, people started figuring out how to get by without the jobs that were closed, and they haven't felt a need to go back to jobs that sucked. I have hopes that we can renegotiate the labor habits, and instead of working several part-time jobs, people can have *one* job that sustains them. This will require the period we're in now, where employers can't find workers at the current conditions. They will have to change the conditions offered.

Covid damages every body system it touches- heart, blood vessels, lungs, nerves (brain fog? That's nerves in your brain damaged, and nerves don't recover terribly well when damaged). It eats the sheathing around the nerves, similar to what Multiple Sclerosis does, though maybe not as bad.

Masks do help keep out virus, especially the N-95 ones. That's what they were *designed* to do. That's why health care people wear them. I'm certainly still wearing mine, even when nobody around me is.

[Bob KellyIII]

You mean they make a mask that actually keeps the bug out ? first I've heard of it ! I got like 4 cloth ones ...one black one I like alot but I know it does nothing for keeping me safe from covid....
like I said a chain link fence to keep out mosquitos ! it makes as much sense !
if your going to demand people ware a mask then you must give them a mask that works ! .... I've not seen that !
....
Bob.......

[Snake]

The news is reporting that there is a new covid strain. They are calling it a “Stealth” variant because it is difficult to detect.

I work around a lot of people everyday (our manufacturing plant employs around 200 people) and I consider myself very lucky/blessed that my family or myself haven’t caught it.

[CaliGrrl]

More like a mesh construction fence to keep out people throwing water balloons at it. The virus is carried by droplets from an infected person's breath and the masks are to stop it. The cloth masks aren't all that great, though they will stop a large number of the droplets.

The N95 masks work to stop the virus (or at least a lot of it, nothing's perfect). It's a physical barrier, as well as an electric charge that attracts the tiny particles to it. This is why they say not to use them for too long, and don't touch it while you're wearing it. Also, even the best masks don't stop anything if you don't wear it right. I see too many people with it drooping under their chin or not covering their nose.

[Alex]

Masks have been a bit of a moving target, ever since the very beginning of the pandemic. Those changes, in both the various policies, and in C19 virus itself over time, have made things more complicated than perceived at first glance - and makes it easier for both the under-informed and the intentionally deceitful to discount them entirely.

First, cloth masks, surgical masks, or any mask that isn't N95 or better is never intended to keep things even close to airtight. Of course you can breathe in through it, breathe out through it, some air gets around the mask entirely, and some goes right through it. The virus is airborne, and carried quite well by water droplets coming into and out of us as we breathe. Without a mask - our typical breathing will cause those typical droplets to go X far. And coughing/sneezing, they can go quite a few feet, very quickly. With a mask, those droplets don't go nearly as far before many of them aren't airborne any more. If everyone wears masks, there's less airborne water droplets in closed spaces, and there's less likelihood of transmission. It's never a 100% or a 0% thing, but it's abundantly clear that the more masks that are worn, the more transmission slows. Very early on in the panini, mask recommendations were slow-walked because there was a supply-chain concern that health-care workers were going to get pummeled, and would not have access to a sufficient amount of masks. This ensured an easy political target forever more - regardless of what was learned over time, and welcome improvements in the supply-chain for PPE over time.

But then the Delta variant was much more contagious than the first strains, and whatever guidance was given for the original, would need to take into account that people were likely to be infected much more easily. Various articles posted comparisons how if it used to be 15 minutes in a closed space, now 30 seconds in the same space would show same risk. So however effective masks were with the original, the same masks in the same conditions, would intuitively be less effective than before. The good news, is that in studies undertaken during the Delta wave, there was strong data showing that masks were still effective. But again - it's never 100% safety with mask, 0% safety without mask. The more masks are worn, the slower overall transmission occurs.

And a little while ago we're up to Omicron, which is even more contagious. Testing results were higher than ever in the panini, with as many as 1 in 7 tests being positive in some areas. If you didn't get it, you knew someone that likely did. In every classroom of 20 kids, math shows that pretty much anywhere in the US now, a few of them would likely test positive; it's literally everywhere. So the mask recommendations have been morphed again a bit, making it clearer that cloth and other non N95 masks aren't going to help the wearer as much from being infected, it's just too prevalent. N95 masks have a much greater likelihood of keeping out enough of the virus to keep someone from contracting C19, but it's no guarantee even then. Healthcare workers don't wear them as a Halloween costume to entertain - they really do work - but odds are they are eventually going to catch it anyway. If the individual is vaccinated, the likelihood of serious disease or hospitalization is very low - which is good news all around.

So if one is worried about themselves being infected - stay out of risky locations where transmission is likely, and wear a N95 mask. If one is worried about managing the load on the health care system both altruistically and for their own benefit should they need it, follow local masking guidelines, whether N95 or just any covering. If one doesn't give a whit and thinks the whole masking thing is silly - great! I hope for their sake that they take vaccination more seriously.

Link to a whole bunch of masking studies

[DannoXYZ]

Yes! Not all masks are created equal or provide equal protection!!!

[Snake]

Also take care of yourself mentally and physically. Maintain a positive attitude and keep yourself physically fit with an active lifestyle/exercise.

[Snake]

A few more states including California are doing away with mast mandates.

[CaliGrrl]

Given the infection levels that continue, I'm not sure I like it. I just hope the anti-mask troublemakers won't hassle me for continuing to wear mine.

[Snake]

Originally Posted by CaliGrrl

Given the infection levels that continue, I'm not sure I like it. I just hope the anti-mask troublemakers won't hassle me for continuing to wear mine.

I hope no-one hassles you either. Hopefully they will realize that not only are you protecting yourself but you are protecting them as well.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Snake

A few more states including California are doing away with mast mandates.

There's more to it than that. What is happening today is the state removing some mask mandates for those that are vaccinated, but they are still requiring masks for everyone in a variety of public places, including all public transit and schools.

details here: https://www.sfgate.com/coronavirus/a...y-16917138.php

[CaliGrrl]

It seems a lot of people are only thinking about themselves. "I'll probably not get very sick." "I hate all this stuff we have to do."

Uh.... it's not just about you. This is a community issue, with community solutions.

[DannoXYZ]

Wish we had culture that was less me-me-me and more group-oriented. There are other places where people automatically wear masks when they're sick to protect others. These countries had lowest infection and death-rates when this thing hit...

[Snake]

The me me me me culture has created an environment of divisiveness and mistrust.

[Bob KellyIII]

Well I for one Hate all the restrictions...but I do them for the general public's health.... it's not that I don't care it's that I hate having to do it....
....
just fix the dam problem and make a vaccination that stops the bug in it's tracks .... not one that gives you 80% immunity ! that's not fixed !
.... but if that's the best ya got I'll take it !
....
Bob........

[CaliGrrl]

The vaccines are more than 80% immunity.

Everybody hates the masks and shields and things being closed and all the restrictions. We do them, but we all hate it.

I think the saddest thing about the pandemic and all is what it's shown me about my fellow citizens. Even people I know and like. There is a certain number of people who just do not care and that saddens me. Who believe some whacked stuff.