September 28th, 2009, 07:32 AM | #1 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
|
Hard ticking at idle
Yep, I searched. I Googled. And while this is probably a common issue, I haven't found the right term to describe it, let alone search for it
The new-to-me-'07 started yesterday with 7600 miles on it, and ended the day with 8100. About 400 miles into that run, I noticed a bit of a ticking sound up front between the pipes at idle - off-idle, no tick. Of course, I checked the oil and coolant levels, which were fine, and chalked it up to my ears playing tricks on me... it'd been a long day, what with my 6'1" frame folded up on the little bike, and I was getting a little punchy. Anyway, this morning I headed out for coffee sans earplugs, and the tick - for want of a better term - was pretty damn noticeable. Again, levels are good, off-idle is fine. I call it a "tick" because it's not a low-end sort of "knock" and definitely not a "ping". There's a dark part of my mind that wants to call it piston slap but I really, really don't want to go there since I haven't turned the bike over to the new owner. So, I bow to the collective wisdom here to alert me to other possibilities that might be more relevant to the Li'l 250. Thanks for any pointers. |
|
September 28th, 2009, 10:15 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
|
When was the last time the valves were adjusted? On the pregens, they are due at the 600 mile check and every 5k after that.
Could the ticking you're hearing be loose valves? |
|
September 28th, 2009, 10:26 AM | #3 | |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
|
Quote:
From the service records, the valves were checked and found okay about 1K ago. This weekend for grins I'll double-check them myself and make sure the cam hasn't jumped a tooth. Problem is, this is the first 250 Ninja I've played with so I'm not certain that the motor's power delivery isn't just part of it's factory corked-uppedness. She's making great power at 7K and up, so I suspect valve timing is currently okay. I'll also do an oil change and think about running a slightly higher viscosity to see if that makes any difference. |
|
|
September 28th, 2009, 10:31 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
|
cool... good luck. please keep us informed if replacing the tensioner resolves the problem.
|
|
September 28th, 2009, 10:37 AM | #5 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
|
|
|
September 28th, 2009, 02:11 PM | #6 |
-
Name: -
Location: -
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): - Posts: A lot.
|
If you're going to remove the cam chain tensioner....
to check it's condition, be very careful to make sure you document how it's parts are put together. I've heard from other riders about getting it out and apart then realizing they didn't pay attention to how it goes together. Apparently there's a mistake that can be made with the short, fat spring.
There's a write-up in the ninja250.org FAQs about cam chain tensioner maintenance. http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Cam_cha...er_maintenance If it's all pitted like this guy's was, I'd say you should replace it immediately. http://forums.ninja250.org/viewtopic...=778906#778906 I've heard that a loose cam chain can tear up the two guides/tensioners that ride against it (this is mentioned near the end of the Cam Chain Maintenance article I linked you to above) They're made of plastic and if this happens you can find the plastic bits on the oil screen when you do an oil change. (here's the oil screen checking article, http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Checking_the_oil_screen) Good luck with it. |
|
September 28th, 2009, 03:10 PM | #7 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
|
Thanks for the input, guys. I'm 98% sure it's the tensioner. Stands to reason, really, that if it was going to die it'd do it right at 8000 miles while being flogged on the interstate.
The noise almost certainly originates from near the tensioner (though this damn motor is so small it's hard to be sure sometimes!). And the more I think about it, the less I'm liking valves as the culprit as I'd expect them to tighten up after a hard run like that (unless one of the locknuts grew legs, and I sure as hell would've eaten a valve during the day if that was the case). So, since all the shops are closed today, I'll order one up tomorrow (doubt they have it in stock here in Mobile) unless someone can chime in with an internet retailer who'll have stock and can do speedy shipping. You know, one that we trust. |
|
September 29th, 2009, 03:02 PM | #8 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
|
Hey, folks - cooling my heels for a coupla days here. Somebody check my reasoning: if this WAS a sloppy valve, wouldn't I expect it to be just as noisy off-idle?
|
|
September 30th, 2009, 08:38 PM | #9 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
|
Update: valves are done. Damn, but that's a tight spot for tappet adjustments! Coming from BMW motors, I sure hope I don't need to monkey with these again any time in the near future.
ALL the valves were tight. I ran 4 on the intakes and 6 on the exhausts and erred loose, and now that that's done I'm convinced that the replacement tensioner (which arrives Friday) will be just the ticket. |
|
September 30th, 2009, 10:19 PM | #10 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Allan
Location: SF Bay Area
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 F17 Posts: 73
|
I have the same noise. It's not the CCT or Valves on my bike. It was due up for a major service so the valves got checked and CCT checked. None of that fixed the problem. Mechanic also torqued down the header and checked some other stuff. After some research on ninja250.org I think the problem is this:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What%27..._the_clutch%3F |
|
October 1st, 2009, 07:39 AM | #11 |
-
Name: -
Location: -
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): - Posts: A lot.
|
Interesting....
Are you going to pull the clutch basket to find out for sure?
The article mentions finding tiny bits of the rubber bumper black stuff on the oil screen. Have you checked your oil screen? |
|
October 1st, 2009, 11:40 AM | #12 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
|
Yeah, in my case it's not the clutch. I pulled the screen early this morning and it was clean... and then I slip-tested the clutch and the rattle persisted.
So, I'm just waiting on the part to come in tomorrow and I should be good to go. |
|
October 2nd, 2009, 10:35 AM | #13 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
|
Mmm... new cam chain tensioners are sweeeeeeet
What's funny is that if you compare the spring tension(s) between the old and new units, the squeeze test doesn't show a discernible difference. The most obvious wear item in the assembly looks to be the roller bearing. Oh well. She's quiet and happy now. Time to ride her Thanks for the input, everybody. |
|
October 2nd, 2009, 10:40 AM | #14 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
|
|
|
October 2nd, 2009, 11:34 AM | #15 |
Live Life
Name: Don
Location: Lincoln, NE
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Green SE Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
|
Scott have you a DIY in the works?
__________________________________________________
- ATGATT - Scorpion EX700 Hi-Vis Helmet, First Gear MeshTek 3.0 Jacket, TourMaster Transition 2 Jacket and Flex Pants, Sidi Doha boots |
|
October 2nd, 2009, 11:40 AM | #16 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
|
|
|
October 3rd, 2009, 11:46 PM | #17 | |
ATGATT Squid Killer
Name: Chad
Location: So. Cal
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): '06 CBR600 Posts: 189
|
Quote:
Gonna have to disagree here. Responsible riders will get 12k miles between valve adjustments on.. hell just about any japanese bike (don't ask about the italians though). But most dealers who want your service money won't tell you that... |
|
|
October 4th, 2009, 01:31 AM | #18 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
|
sorry, I mis spoke... it's 6k miles, not 5k. 12k??? I don't think so. it's called "preventive maintenance", not "adjust when you think it's okay maintenance".
do what you want... I'm just quoting what the manufacturer recommends. http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Do_I_re..._6000_miles%3F |
|
October 4th, 2009, 04:00 AM | #19 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
|
|
|
October 4th, 2009, 07:51 AM | #20 |
North Alabama Mtn. ryder
Name: Nate
Location: Alabama
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Posts: 537
|
sure thats responsible ROFL
__________________________________________________
QTRltrPWR |
|
October 4th, 2009, 07:57 AM | #21 |
North Alabama Mtn. ryder
Name: Nate
Location: Alabama
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Posts: 537
|
Scott does your bike sound like so?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUVBonQ9AjI if not your probably fine these bikes have a noisy valve train especially cold and at idle...running a good synthetic quiets it down a bunch.
__________________________________________________
QTRltrPWR |
|
October 4th, 2009, 08:01 AM | #22 | |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
|
Quote:
Won't be long before I need to uncork this thing, I'll tell ya. |
|
|
October 4th, 2009, 08:08 AM | #23 |
North Alabama Mtn. ryder
Name: Nate
Location: Alabama
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Posts: 537
|
so i just noticed your in rainbow city, i'm just right up the road near Fort Payne. Howdy neighbor
__________________________________________________
QTRltrPWR |
|
October 4th, 2009, 08:09 AM | #24 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
|
Howdy, mang. Gonna be here this week putting new tires and making nice to the GS and generally farting around before spending next weekend in Mobile, then back to Dallas.
|
|
October 4th, 2009, 08:12 AM | #25 |
North Alabama Mtn. ryder
Name: Nate
Location: Alabama
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Posts: 537
|
cool well if your on your bike checkout the lookout mountain parkway it starts somewhere down there near gasden and runs most the legth of the mountain..Fun ride
__________________________________________________
QTRltrPWR |
|
January 23rd, 2010, 09:06 PM | #26 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: Roanoke, VA
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Candy Plasma Blue 250R Posts: A lot.
|
Got another bike doing hard ticking. Took a recording today while doing some other things, please ignore my innane commentary. After reading thru this thread, I'm thinking valve chain tensioner for 2 reasons:
1) it's definitely stronger on the right side of the bike, even if it doesn't show in the vid 2) had the valves checked at 7800mi (3000mi ago) and they were spot on. MOV04699.MPG It's ~19MB, be forewarned. Wanted to edit, but can't find my usual vid edit software and don't wanna lose what little sound quality there is in a re-encode As I mentioned in the video, I initially thought it was just drastically too lean, but that wasn't the case. I walked the mix screws to over 3 turns out and no difference. It's running around 40F here and has been doing this for a while. At first thought it was just the 'normal' noise but finally heard another, 'younger' 250 today and it's definitely something wrong. Timing chain tensioner. Agree/disagree/alternate ideas? If so, how bad do ya'll think it would be to ride to my dealer of choice (some ~70mi up the road)?
__________________________________________________
Proud member of the Blue Army |
|
January 23rd, 2010, 09:24 PM | #27 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
|
70 miles? No sweat. But really, just get the new tensioner and swap it yourself... I wouldn't waste the money having the dealer do it.
|
|
January 23rd, 2010, 11:32 PM | #28 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Jon
Location: Montreal, QC, CAN
Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 1000 - 2011, Ninja H2 SX SE - 2018 Posts: 649
|
Quote:
First Valve Clearance Check 800 KM(500) Remaining Checks every 3125 Miles Do you know if I should do a clearance check on a 09'? |
|
|
January 24th, 2010, 08:29 AM | #29 | ||
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: Roanoke, VA
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Candy Plasma Blue 250R Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Might also take a look over here, lots of other opinions on the valve checks: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...hlight=ticking
__________________________________________________
Proud member of the Blue Army |
||
|
January 24th, 2010, 09:24 AM | #30 | |
Livin' the Minimoto Life
Name: Mark
Location: Riding around in TX
Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2022 Honda Navi, 2018 Z-125 Pro Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
Oh and the secret to gaining access to the adjusters is either remove the gas tank, or custom make some tools. I did that with a screwdriver and the socket. Ground down a 1/4" drive socket just a tad so it would clear the casting...worked great. Then have a small wrench handy to tighten it up the rest of the way.
__________________________________________________
--- My IG Page --- My FB page! --- 2022 Honda Navi && 2018 Z-125 Pro |
|
|
January 24th, 2010, 03:09 PM | #31 |
North Alabama Mtn. ryder
Name: Nate
Location: Alabama
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Posts: 537
|
the 86-88 models needed valve adj. every 3000 miles because they had softer seats than the 89-07 models. I'm willing to bet that the 08+ are similar to the 88-07 valvetrain
__________________________________________________
QTRltrPWR |
|
January 30th, 2010, 11:24 PM | #32 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: Roanoke, VA
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Candy Plasma Blue 250R Posts: A lot.
|
How would one go about this?
__________________________________________________
Proud member of the Blue Army |
|
January 30th, 2010, 11:30 PM | #33 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Jon
Location: Montreal, QC, CAN
Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 1000 - 2011, Ninja H2 SX SE - 2018 Posts: 649
|
|
|
January 31st, 2010, 01:44 AM | #34 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Dude!!
Location: Southern California
Join Date: Dec 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 250r Posts: 443
|
Did you ever figure out what is wrong? Is there something wrong? I can't tell from the video. What am I looking for?
Edit: I hear the tick. Mine has the same but not as loud. Is that normal? Meaning, is it normal to hear the ticking noise but not normal for it to be loud? Thanks. I only have 400 miles on the bike btw. Quote:
|
|
|
January 31st, 2010, 12:39 PM | #35 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: Roanoke, VA
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Candy Plasma Blue 250R Posts: A lot.
|
Well, I've been told the cam chain does make some amount of 'tick' normally and listening to your vids, it sounds OK. Mine is making a lot of engine noise, especially when I was beside a '09 with <1/3 the miles I have. FWIW, I'm at about 10,750mi.
As for my engine, the valves were a bit out of spec (checked while I'm waiting on parts) so that should help a bit. Cam chain, tensioner and guides look A-OK but supposedly the tensioner can be 'bad' and look normal so I'm hoping it was just that. Long story short, still not 100% sure what's wrong, but my ears & shop guy agreed it's the tensioner. Will find out when it shows up and I get it installed.
__________________________________________________
Proud member of the Blue Army |
|
February 5th, 2010, 06:54 PM | #36 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: Roanoke, VA
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Candy Plasma Blue 250R Posts: A lot.
|
Well, after adjusting the valves as well as putting in a new tensioner and guides, my 'jett's engine seems happier. Pretty sure it was the CCT making the ticking, both from other people's reports and the old one felt a little weak vs new one when I re-compressed them both.
__________________________________________________
Proud member of the Blue Army |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Idle issues - Idle is different every time I start up. | 106 | 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 6 | November 13th, 2014 04:57 PM |
ticking noise | jcsalazar | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 5 | October 29th, 2014 12:24 PM |
ticking. awful, awful ticking... | Insan3guy | 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 6 | March 25th, 2014 05:32 AM |
Idle jumps to 9000 rpm on choke then wont stay idle after off | Shawn250 | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 1 | June 19th, 2012 06:45 AM |
Engine ticking at idle? | JMcDonald | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 14 | December 17th, 2010 10:11 AM |
Thread Tools | |
|
|