Intro + Shifting from 1st question

[tyronne1126]

- Well, Ive been reading around for over a month now after my car got stolen (the reason why i got my ninja)

First a little intro.
I'm Tyronne from South California. Orange County.

Got my 09 Blue Ninja less than a week ago.
Took MSF course.
Got my license.
Insurance.
Just need medical insurance now. o.O

Pictures: (bad ones but okay)
(dont know why the picture is sideways..)




If anyone is wondering
- Scorpion Stinger jacket
- TCX All Purpose Boots
- Alpinestar GP-X gloves
- HJC Cl-15 Crypt helmet (i want my strife shoei but no money)


Question: I seem to have learned enough to do quite well riding.
But the thing is. I hate leaving from 1st. I stalled like crazy in the beginning around my neighborhood and a little scared it will happen in the street. (It did happen once) But my gf was behind me in her car.

But she wont be there tomorrow or any other day.

Some way/method you guys use to leave from a stop in 1st without stalling?

[Verus Cidere]

Welcome to the board Tyronne! Glad to see another member with questions!

As to your stalling question, sounds like it needs more gas. Try revving a bit higher while letting the clutch out. It'll jerk a bit faster the first couple of times (just be sure you let the clutch out SLOWLY and you'll be fine) but other than that, this is the easiest way to get away from stalling. I had the same problem when I first started riding. I never gave it quite enough gas for the first week of riding or so. Try that, and let us know. If the problem persists, we'll figure something else out.

[shadow]

Been driving standard since I started driving (cars even). Remember the "friction Zone" in the MSF? Practice that. ALOT.
Even easier - practice your throttle when standing still. Just bring it up to 2 or 2.5K, and HOLD IT there. Practice just bringing the throttle up to 2k, then 3k, till you get a "feel" for how much twist is required for how much rpm.
Next, start combining this with the clutch. Remember, its not a "button", its possibly the MOST "analog" handle on the bike, next to brake and throttle. Its job, literally, is to control how much of the motor's power is currently going to the back wheel. So practice by grabbing it ALL the way in, rev the throttle to about 2.5K or so, HOLD IT, and EASING it out (VERY SLOWLY) till you feel the bike "catch". IT'll start to roll on you, so just ease the clutch out ALL the way, SLOWLY, and synchronize it with a slight bit more throttle. (left fingers release, right hand twists). You'll soon find theres a "rhythm" between the two and you'll find a happy balance between how much throttle and how fast you're letting it to to the back wheel. This is where Verus is saying "Add more twist" if needed. 2.5-3k is what I needed stock, now I can just drop my clutch and go (jetted and tuned though :-P). Theres a happy zone partway down the release of the clutch handle, which you'll feel gradually adds more power and less power to the bike depending on how far released or grabbed in it is. This is the "friction zone". This is your finest form of control of the bike, throttle-wise. MSF should've covered that. If you need to, you can do the "rocking" technique they taught you, in the driveway, just to get used to starting off. Also, DON'T GET DISCOURAGED.
We apologize for any confusion, as this tutorial has been brought to you today by Newcastle Ale. (Don't worry, i'm inside and the bike is parked, as she will be until tomorrow :-P)

[tyronne1126]

i understand what the friction zone is.. but it makes it a little hard to give it gas right at the friction zone.
bike seems to want to die right went i get to the friction zone.

you cant just gas it before you get the to the friction zone and kind of cheat? hahah
just asking..

but yea. i need more practice in that area.

[Verus Cidere]

You can add a little throttle before you get to the friction zone. Not a problem at all. What shadow was talking about was a more finesse style of doing it. It's the very careful, precise way to do it. I figured it out a different way, from listening to a guy in my MSF class who had only ridden dirt bikes before. He gunned his engine all the way to about 6k, but he let the clutch out so slowly he didn't pop a wheelie or anything. The big thing here is clutch control, rather than the exact amount of gas you throw in the engine. Just try using a little more at a time. You're right, all it'll take will be practice. You'll be used to what you need within a month tops.

[tyronne1126]

haha .. hope so!

[SteveL]

It’s just practice you only have a little engine so you do have to give it some revs before / while you are letting out the clutch.

Steve

[DarkNinja52]

make sure your idle speed is under 1.5k or else you'll have issues learning to start off moving, also make sure it is over 1k.

if thats not the problem then just let the clutch out even slower and if the bike sounds like it wants to stall then just give it a little bit more throttle. check your idle speed on your tach first though

another issue may just be that the weather is cold and the bike needs more time to warm up, but i think the weather in socal is much nicer than it has been in ny, figured id just mention it because i've been having similar issues when i don't warm the engine up enough

stay safe, practice clutch control in an empty parking lot for 20 minutes or so for two or three days and itll make a huge difference..

[tyronne1126]

the weather is nice here and i made sure i warmed up the bike some before going out this morning.

i noticed that my idle was at 1.5k in the beginning but never really noticed it later one..

it does drop rather quickly once you start to let go of the clutch

[DarkNinja52]

i thought my idle was too low so i raised it a bit to 1.5k and when i got it serviced they lowered it to about 1.2k (guess i was wrong). now she starts off so much better from first. she starts to move without any gas as long as i keep a smooth cluth release. definitely try to lower or have someone lower your idle speed to a tiny bit above 1k. itll make a huge difference. i pretty much guarantee it

[tyronne1126]

ill practice for a while tomorrow morning and see how it goes

[karlosdajackal]

1. Go to a nice flat level parking lot, put it in 1st, keep the revs at a constant 2.5k RPM and let out the clutch slowly, just keep starting and stopping to build up some muscle memory. The engine may slow a little as you get into the friction zone, but that is fine, so long as its stays above 2k. If it drops more than that you probably let out the clutch too quick, but you will still get away with it.

2. That's the basics but I would not go out on the street just yet.
Next we need to sort out your feet, your left foot (gears) should be on the ground when your stopped, your right foot (rear brake) should be on the rear brake when your stopped. This means if your every on an incline of any kind the bike won't start moving away underneath you, which is lets face it is not a good thing and can only lead to 2 possible outcomes (a you catch it, b you drop it).

So exercise 2 goes like this. Repeat exercise one, but synchronise releasing pressure on the rear brake, with letting out the clutch. So at the same point the rear brake stops holding you on a hill our friend the friction zone will take over and keep you on that hill without moving.

This is a critical skill in my opinion to avoid those parking light drops. Its also just a fact of life that many bikes don't have very smooth throttle response at low revs (below 3.5k), so being able to control the bike at low speed with good clutch control a bit of rear brake makes riding in start/stop traffic or any kind of slow speed manoeuvre (u-turns, parking) much more comfortable. You don't want to be jerking forwards and jumping on the brakes hard in this situation, its all about smooth control.

3. Once you've got starting down, make sure when your stopping your going down through the gears so that your in first when you come to a complete halt. Exercise 3, remember we are only going to fully disengage the clutch at approximately the same point we think about putting our left foot down. Practice starting and stopping on a straight so that when you stop, the bike is already in first, your left foot goes down when you fully pull the clutch and your right foot stays on the rear brake.

4. The "other" scenarios. Having your left foot on the ground and right on the rear brake is great for any kind of incline. If the road is higher to your left, or ahead or behind you this will keep the bike still and allow you to get a foot planted safely. If the road falls away to the right slightly this should still be fine.

Sometimes if the road falls away a lot to your right, you will prefer to get your left foot down, so practice switching from rear to front brake to hold the bike, so that you can switch feet.
Sometimes you be fully stopped but will be unsure if you got the bike into 1st gear, again pull the front brake as you release the rear so we know the bike is not going to roll. Put your right foot down, sort out your gear with the left foot. Then switch back to the rear brake, left foot down position.

Occasionally if your stopped facing a steep decline, the front brake is better for holding the bike as all the weight is on the front wheel, in this situation the bike will start rolling as soon as you release the front brake so its pretty easy to get going without balancing the brake/throttle.

All this applies to driving a manual car also, except you use the handbrake to hold you on hills and again the aim on an incline is to release the handbrake (effectively a rear wheel only brake) at the same time you release the clutch. If you do it right the bike/car never rolls backwards at all, been doing it 10 years in the car, and a month on the bike Small capacity car engines (1.3L FTW) can also be a bit lump below 2k, so when reversing and doing other low speed manoeuvres you just keep it at 2k, and control the speed with the clutch. Its way easier than trying to make minute adjustments to the throttle and its part of what the clutch is designed to do (smooth out power delivery)

Ride safe

P.s. if you nail all this I'd advise getting some proper boots and pants, I did and trust me it makes a huge difference to your confidence levels.

[Tigress]

Welcome Tyronne. I was having the same problem you were when I first got The Kid. I was used to riding a 600 that I didn't have to give much throttle too for take off but you have to give this cycle throttle like the others have stated. One Saturday, I spent an hour on my street doing take offs, U-turns, taking off on a hill until it became second nature. When we went riding later, it made a HUGE difference. Give that baby some throttle. Also, if you do release the clutch too soon, before it dies on you, bring the clutch back in and release again. I noticed that worked before I did my practicing.
Good luck!!

[Snake]

Hello and welcome to ya. The secret is practice, practice and more practice. Even after riding for over 30 years I am still learning.

[OldGuy]

Welcome Tyronne - glad to have you with us. One of the things you have to get used to is the clutch on our bikes is very different that a traditional car clutch. Because it runs in an oil bath you can "slip" it without harm or damage. Yes you do need to learn the coordination of clutch and throttle just as you did when you first learned to drive a standard transmission car but now you have even finer control with the clutch.

As others have said find an empty parking lot and practice. Fear not it will come

[tyronne1126]

I've never driven a manual car before.
Posted via Mobile Device

[backinthesaddleagain]

nice blue on the wheels

[patw]

Originally Posted by tyronne1126

I've never driven a manual car before.
Posted via Mobile Device

Heh, I started the same way. No manual experience made it a lot harder to figure out the clutch.

My problem, when I was starting out, was that I wasn't always in 1st. Sometimes the transmission seems to get hung up in a higher gear and I had to roll back and forth until it allowed me to go down to first. I learned a trick after a while, where you let the clutch out to the beginning of the friction zone and push down to get it into gear. Much easier than rolling back/forth at a stop light!

[tyronne1126]

Riding the bike is fine. I'm amazed I am actually quite good even with no real pratice but the msf class.

But I just don't know if a motorcycle is for me..
What am I suppose to do with the bike tho..

I know. Big mistake and it's sad but oh well..
It's just not for everyone.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Tigress]

Originally Posted by tyronne1126

Riding the bike is fine. I'm amazed I am actually quite good even with no real pratice but the msf class.

But I just don't know if a motorcycle is for me..
What am I suppose to do with the bike tho..

I know. Big mistake and it's sad but oh well..
It's just not for everyone.
Posted via Mobile Device

Tyronne,

If you don't think it's for you, then sell it and try and get out what you put into it. Riding is not for everyone but at least you didn't spend too much or get hurt before finding out. Don't let the throttle thing discourage you though. Like someone else said, it's important to make sure you're in first before trying to take off (I'm guilty of that as well )

[tyronne1126]

No no. The taking off thing is fine. It's only turned off on me once or twice. Seems to be fine. I know I'll be fine after a while but the whole thing. Just isn't fitting me.

We make mistakes and learn. Life is a game. I haven't had anything is complain in my life so it's all good.

Bike only has 20 miles on it.
We'll see what my parents say and what happens. (yes the bike is paid off)
Posted via Mobile Device

[cifex]

I'm baffled.... what do you mean it's not fitting you? You don't enjoy riding it or you're scared? 20 miles is pretty quick to make that call. That's barely a test drive. I put about 250 miles on my bike the first week. I'm pretty sure everyone on here was scared ****less even going 40 / 50 mph for the first few hundred miles so don't let that discourage you.

EDIT: Also, I almost forgot......"That's what she said!"

[tyronne1126]

hah. noo. honestly. i dont really know.

i do like it and im not bad but
i just rather have a car i guess.

[cifex]

I see. As a sole vehicle, I definately agree. If you don't want to pay for both a bike is just not that practicle as a main vehicle.
Posted via Mobile Device

[tyronne1126]

yea. oh well.
ill see what i can do.
im in no big hurry but it will be a hassle trying to sell it.

[komohana]

aloha tyronne & welcome to the boards
having the cycle as your only means of transpo DOES make things...different. riding a cycle has always been a choice and although there were times when the bike is all i had, it was only temporary. having to learn the cycle way as your only option, i imagine can seem like a futile attempt, but you've prepared yourself well, and whatever you decide, be safe, relax, breathe and if you feel like you're gonna stall and stammer, just grab some clutch and start over.

[CC Cowboy]

You can defy gravity (1st pic) but have problems riding?

By the way, have your neighbor trim that palm tree.

[tyronne1126]

what with the 1st picture? o.O

im not having problems riding. im fine.
but there are other things going on in my personal life i need to take care of.

that palm tree is part of my house. haha