False Neutral Recovery - What did I break?

[setasai]

The other day I was riding 2-up and when we were going up a hill in 6th there wasnt enough power and I attempted to downshift. The downshift was half-assed (my fault) and I ended up in a false neutral with the throttle open quite a bit. Revs hit almost redline, not sure it all happened so fast, I might have used the clutch i might not have and shifted down again to get into 5th. When doing so, I could hear some grinding noise which made me super nervous and led me to believe that the clutch was either not used or used too quickly.

Fast forward to now. Bike seems to run fine. All gears work and clutch still engages and disengages like I expect it to with one change, gear shifting is smooth as silk. What I mean is when I let out the clutch, I dont need to be as smooth about it and it wont jerk me forward or back as hard if RPMs are too high or too low. I noticed this in all gears. Once disengaged and riding, power seems to be unchanged and all gears correspond to their respective rpm-mph ranges. Feels like the clutch is slipping but still "works".

So, what did I break/smooth out? I know for a fact that it isnt a good thing but what happened? And is there something I should get checked out/replaced?

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by setasai

The other day I was riding 2-up and when we were going up a hill in 6th there wasnt enough power and I attempted to downshift. The downshift was half-assed (my fault) and I ended up in a false neutral with the throttle open quite a bit. Revs hit almost redline, not sure it all happened so fast, I might have used the clutch i might not have and shifted down again to get into 5th. When doing so, I could hear some grinding noise which made me super nervous and led me to believe that the clutch was either not used or used too quickly.

Fast forward to now. Bike seems to run fine. All gears work and clutch still engages and disengages like I expect it to with one change, gear shifting is smooth as silk. What I mean is when I let out the clutch, I dont need to be as smooth about it and it wont jerk me forward or back as hard if RPMs are too high or too low. I noticed this in all gears. Once disengaged and riding, power seems to be unchanged and all gears correspond to their respective rpm-mph ranges. Feels like the clutch is slipping but still "works".

So, what did I break/smooth out? I know for a fact that it isnt a good thing but what happened? And is there something I should get checked out/replaced?

Sounds like you have frictionless plates

[Alex]

It sounds like the clutch is more worn than it was before, but if it isn't ever slipping at all when the lever is fully released, even under full throttle and in any gear, I wouldn't stay up nights worrying about it.

But, if you're truly concerned, I'll channel KKim by saying you should package up the bike and drop it off at my place as a spare, it's likely completely broken and of no use to you.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Alex

It sounds like the clutch is more worn than it was before, but if it isn't ever slipping at all when the lever is fully released, even under full throttle and in any gear, I wouldn't stay up nights worrying about it.

But, if you're truly concerned, I'll channel KKim by saying you should package up the bike and drop it off at my place as a spare, it's likely completely broken and of no use to you.

Screw that! Lets rip apart our bikes and combine them to make a 4x4!

That's the next project LOL

[setasai]

Originally Posted by Alex

It sounds like the clutch is more worn than it was before, but if it isn't ever slipping at all when the lever is fully released, even under full throttle and in any gear, I wouldn't stay up nights worrying about it.

But, if you're truly concerned, I'll channel KKim by saying you should package up the bike and drop it off at my place as a spare, it's likely completely broken and of no use to you.

As tempting as that may be, I'll have to pass.

With an event like this, what would give first? Clutch plates? Gearbox/Tranny? If I just worn down the clutch plates then no biggy, i'll have it changed out later but I'm concerned about the gearbox.

[Alex]

With no clunky noises, normal shift lever action, no false neutrals, and not popping out of gear; I think the transmission is likely fine. The only wear item really is the clutch. The rest are "break" items, not "wear" items. Only you can know for sure, but I wonder if there really is a night and day difference in the clutch behavior, from before and after this incident; or if you're more hyperaware of the clutch action after having that anomalous false neutral.

[setasai]

It's definitely a night and day difference. I usually have to try to make sure my shifting is smooth. Now I can be more careless with the clutch and its still smooth. It is still working as far as I can tell. Thanks for your input. I am now less worried about anything being "broken" persay. I'll just keep an eye on it and take a look at it when I do the valve adjustment since the engine will already be worked on.

[CmichRider]

I'm gonna go out and say that it could be in your head. I know you said it's definitely a real issue, but it could be that you're convincing yourself that it is happening when it isn't. I know I've messed up some shifts on my bike pretty badly, and the bikes at my MSF weren't ridden by Moto GP riders, but for the most part I couldn't tell any difference riding. Keep on riding

[setasai]

Originally Posted by CmichRider

I'm gonna go out and say that it could be in your head. I know you said it's definitely a real issue, but it could be that you're convincing yourself that it is happening when it isn't. I know I've messed up some shifts on my bike pretty badly, and the bikes at my MSF weren't ridden by Moto GP riders, but for the most part I couldn't tell any difference riding. Keep on riding

Haha well I never said it was an "issue" persay. I just wanted to make sure that whatever I "might" have broken or worn down isnt something that'll explode in my face in the near future.

This is something I noticed because I always have trouble shifting from 1st to 2nd without it jerking on me. I'm just not that good at it and also impatient about slowly letting out the clutch most of the time but now its smooth and I kinda like it.

Anyways, ride on it is!

[CmichRider]

Maybe you just got really good at shifting?

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by setasai

Haha well I never said it was an "issue" persay. I just wanted to make sure that whatever I "might" have broken or worn down isnt something that'll explode in my face in the near future.

This is something I noticed because I always have trouble shifting from 1st to 2nd without it jerking on me. I'm just not that good at it and also impatient about slowly letting out the clutch most of the time but now its smooth and I kinda like it.

Anyways, ride on it is!

It's easier at full throttle

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by setasai

This is something I noticed because I always have trouble shifting from 1st to 2nd without it jerking on me. I'm just not that good at it and also impatient about slowly letting out the clutch most of the time but now its smooth and I kinda like it.

Sounds like you fixed it...

[Miles_Prower]

this is really late but I didn't know where else to post..

Saturday I went riding for nearly four hours and was very achy and tired on the way back. About a mile from my apartment, I was upshifting and then all of a sudden the bike redlined and was slowing down. I guess since I was tired I didn't push all the way up on the shifter or something, but I had no clue you could get stuck between gears (it was between fifth and sixth)? Should I be worried anything got messed up, or does that happen from time to time, no biggie?

[Miles_Prower]

Originally Posted by trixter

a half gear will act like neutral, this is just the way it is and not entirely uncommon when you miss a shift. If it slips into that half gear on its own and you are certain you are shifting correctly then you may want to investigate.

ohh ok, makes sense. yeah im pretty sure I missed the shift, I progressively got more sloppy during the day. nearly pulled out into an oncoming car, so I decided it was a good idea to stop for the day and head home. unlike bruce wayne, i gotta know my limits lol.

[alex.s]

false neutral happens when the shift drum's lock nub gets stuck in between the star divets. (on the plateau) when this happens, the shift forks stay between the gears until the nub slides down either side of the slope of the star... when this happens if there is a big difference between the engine rpm and that gears' engaged rpm, the dogs on those gears will slam and you can do a few things... break or wear down ('forward cut' vs 'back cut') your dogs, bend your shift forks, or lots of various other goodies that you dont want.

the way you avoid it is to not be lazy with shifting. properly disengage the transmission with the throttle and hold the shifter in the changed position for a few seconds after you change gears. it will hold the shift drum in place, holding the shift forks pushed against the dog gears and keep it in gear until its fully engaged and locked from power.

[Miles_Prower]

Originally Posted by alex.s

false neutral happens when the shift drum's lock nub gets stuck in between the star divets. (on the plateau) when this happens, the shift forks stay between the gears until the nub slides down either side of the slope of the star... when this happens if there is a big difference between the engine rpm and that gears' engaged rpm, the dogs on those gears will slam and you can do a few things... break or wear down ('forward cut' vs 'back cut') your dogs, bend your shift forks, or lots of various other goodies that you dont want.

the way you avoid it is to not be lazy with shifting. properly disengage the transmission with the throttle and hold the shifter in the changed position for a few seconds after you change gears. it will hold the shift drum in place, holding the shift forks pushed against the dog gears and keep it in gear until its fully engaged and locked from power.

this is america! speak english!! oh wait.

lol thanks, yes, i'm going to try to hold the shifter in place a bit longer. I tried it a little this morning but it was an awkward feeling.