July 1st, 2012, 05:39 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jeremy
Location: Jeannette Pa
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): 06 Ninja 250 Posts: 16
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Losing power, top speed is ~70 at 9,000rpm, WHAT'S GOING ON???
Hello all
Disclaimer: I am an extreme newbie and this is my first bike so please talk to me like i'm an idiot! The Problem: Lately I've started to lose power on my bike especially at high speeds. I've also realized it kinda...hmm..."sputters"? Almost like its hesitating. Nothing toooo major but definitely not normal. I've read of other forums that say their ninjas go 80-90.....what?! I'm on my last gear at 9,000rpms and i feel like its not wanting to go beyond 70-75 haha. Background Info: I ride all year round...and it's Pittsburgh, so the bike has certainly taken a beating since I bought last september. I'm by no means mechanically inclined, but I have managed to replace the clutch cable, change the oil, air filter to a KN filter, brakes, and put on a 2 brothers exhaust. But, the thought of cleaning and syncing (what's that mean?) the carbs frighten me. I'm ridiculously poor so taking it to a shop to clean the carbs is out of the question. Also, i did replace spark plugs a couple months ago and didn't have the gap tool, but assumed it was spaced accordingly already? I know, i'm stupid. Would that little tiny detail cause this? I try to keep up on maintenance but again, i'm not the most savy motorcyclist. PLEASE, any advice would be appreciated. I'm probably missing some info, but ask questions, i'll try to respond. I feel so dumb |
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July 1st, 2012, 05:45 PM | #2 | |
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Name: Whodat
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Quote:
You might wanna check the thingy that makes the bike go faster. Maybe it isn't adjusted right.
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July 1st, 2012, 05:58 PM | #3 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jeremy
Location: Jeannette Pa
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): 06 Ninja 250 Posts: 16
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haha! "the thingy that makes the bike go faster..."???
And don't let that stuff deceive you, I've only been able to change all those things because of Youtube and forums on this site. |
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July 1st, 2012, 06:23 PM | #4 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Andy
Location: Indianapolis
Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 771
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I'd check the air filter
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July 1st, 2012, 06:38 PM | #5 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jeremy
Location: Jeannette Pa
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): 06 Ninja 250 Posts: 16
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I just changed the air filter to the K&N one literally 2 days ago. What could I have done wrong?
I took the stock foam one out, broke the white frame and took it out, put the K&N one on the air box cover, tightened with the clamps and put it back in... |
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July 1st, 2012, 06:55 PM | #6 |
Limp Noodle
Name: Tyler
Location: Missouri
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250, Fastest Red money can buy Posts: 212
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I was going to say the same thing. I replaced mine and wow what a difference. Does your bike idle at 1.5-2k rpms? And when i'm in 6th gear I get my ninja to go 70 at about 9k rpms too... So It's not really all that bad. The people who are going 80-90 are redlining every one of the gears up to 6th... But just riding normally 9k at 70 mph sounds pretty good to me for a 250!
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July 1st, 2012, 07:36 PM | #7 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jeremy
Location: Jeannette Pa
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): 06 Ninja 250 Posts: 16
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Ok I feel better about that but... I still feel like it was going faster before... And the whole sputtering thing?...
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July 1st, 2012, 08:36 PM | #8 |
Texas Newbie
Name: John
Location: D/FW Texas
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 07 Ninja EX250, 07 FZ6 Posts: A lot.
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With the 15t front, my 07 runs 80mph at 9krpm sitting up. I'm 5'10" 180lbs.
My bike will top out at 92mph on my gps. |
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July 1st, 2012, 08:55 PM | #9 |
Que Buenos Son!!!
Name: Ryan
Location: Grovetucky, OH
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): Aprilia Shiver 750, Husaberg FE 450, Ninja 300 (sold), xr100 Posts: A lot.
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You need to re jet your carbs.
You've replaced your air filter with one that flows more air, and added an aftermarket exhaust, which also flows more air. So you've got all this extra air going through the motor, but no more fuel, meaning your running lean. These bikes are already jetted on the lean side from the factory to make the EPA happy.
Anyway you need to re jet your carbs, or just put the stock air filter and exhaust back on. Good luck |
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July 1st, 2012, 09:02 PM | #10 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jeremy
Location: Jeannette Pa
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): 06 Ninja 250 Posts: 16
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And I assume rejetting the carbs are a PITA?
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July 1st, 2012, 09:19 PM | #11 |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Does it sputter like it's starving for fuel? or does it feel more like a surge or hesitation?
What is the condition of your chain? How many miles on it? |
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July 1st, 2012, 09:22 PM | #12 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jeremy
Location: Jeannette Pa
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): 06 Ninja 250 Posts: 16
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More like a hesitation and that it's holding back....
And the chain to be honest is ...well, should probably be changed. Would this really contribute to this problem? I don't know how many miles are on the chain but the bike itself is on 12,xxx. Also... Would the gap spacing contribute to this?... Thanks guys |
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July 1st, 2012, 09:37 PM | #13 |
ninjette.org *********
Name: Eric
Location: Athens, Alabama
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250r (忍者 250r; sold!) 2001 zx6r Posts: 347
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id do a jet kit, im not sure if it would make it gain top speed, but it sure as hell cant hurt.
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July 1st, 2012, 09:39 PM | #14 | |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
I doubt the gap in the plugs is causing your issue your describe, but get a spark plug gapper just to double check the gap and for future plug changes. When was the last valve adjustment done? At 12k miles, you are due for one. It also wouldn't hurt to put some Seafoam or Star Tron Fuel Treatment in the fuel tank to help clean the carbs a little. |
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July 1st, 2012, 10:11 PM | #15 |
Que Buenos Son!!!
Name: Ryan
Location: Grovetucky, OH
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): Aprilia Shiver 750, Husaberg FE 450, Ninja 300 (sold), xr100 Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Nov '14
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Yes and no. If you've ever taken the carbs off to clean them then replacing the jets is easy. Getting the correct jetting however, is not easy. There is no set formula for which jets to use. Each bike is different, so it's really just a trial and error process. It's easier if you have access to a dyno, so you can see the air/fuel ratio through the RPM range.
This is why I've kept the exhaust stock on my bike. It's not worth the trouble for the small gain in performance on the 250. BTW, my bike still pulls hard at 90 in 5th gear. I'm running a 15/42 sprocket setup. |
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July 1st, 2012, 11:53 PM | #16 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
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its late. i'm reading this in my living room. i laughed for about 5 minutes after reading your post. the neighbors started banging on the wall so i figured i would congratulate you. you woke up my neighbors
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July 2nd, 2012, 04:54 AM | #17 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jeremy
Location: Jeannette Pa
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): 06 Ninja 250 Posts: 16
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So...the conclusion is i should probably get a jet kit?
anyone have a good resource and teaching a complete newby on how to do this? Thanks |
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July 2nd, 2012, 05:00 AM | #18 |
MSF Coach!
Name: Lupe
Location: Antioch, Tennessee
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i rebuilt the carbs on my first 250 12 times and could never get it right, when it comes to re jetting and syncing ur carbs i would pay a shop 60 bucks. also what rpms are you shifting at? ive got my 03 ninja 250 up to about 103 mph and the only thing i have on it is a full muzzy.
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July 2nd, 2012, 05:08 AM | #19 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jeremy
Location: Jeannette Pa
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): 06 Ninja 250 Posts: 16
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$60?! That's it?
I'm shifting around 6-7 for 1st gear, 2nd and 3rd about 7ish and 4th and 5th around 9 anymore than that and i feel like im pushing it too much...but then again...im a complete idiot on this stuff |
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July 2nd, 2012, 05:17 AM | #20 |
MSF Coach!
Name: Lupe
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u can take ur ninja up to 12k when u shift, if u shift too low like ur doing u will not have any where to go when u are in ur top gear, and that will result in a very low top speed. just dont take it past 12 cuz they ****ed up and put the redline at 14 when it needed to be at 12. and 60$ is what a local shop quoted me, if u go to a dealer they will rape u like always.
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July 2nd, 2012, 06:16 AM | #21 | |
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Name: Nolan
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July 2nd, 2012, 06:32 AM | #22 | |
Que Buenos Son!!!
Name: Ryan
Location: Grovetucky, OH
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): Aprilia Shiver 750, Husaberg FE 450, Ninja 300 (sold), xr100 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Peak HP doesn't come until about 12.5k RPM's so if your going for max speed, that's where you should be shifting. |
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July 2nd, 2012, 06:48 AM | #23 | |
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July 2nd, 2012, 07:11 AM | #24 | |
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July 2nd, 2012, 04:29 PM | #25 | ||
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ninjamunky85 Quote:
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July 2nd, 2012, 05:02 PM | #26 |
wat
Name: wat
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my 6th gear will take me from 35mph to bouuncing off the rev limiter (12.7k) in 6th which with my gearing is 102mph.
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July 2nd, 2012, 06:55 PM | #27 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Karl
Location: MA
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Wait. You bought an aftermarket pipe and introduced more air into the bike by installing K&N filters and didn't even re-jet? If you want a machine that you can reliably ride every day then I'd recommend going back to the stock setup. If you insist on keeping your setup for street use, then I insist you call up some of these companies about jetting. Look up Dyno Jet. They make a Stage 1 and 3 kit designed to work with modified intake and exhaust systems.
You need a feeler gauge to gap your plus. In my experience they've always been gapped correctly from the dealer. However, DO NOT TRUST THIS EVER! Check the gap every single time on every single plug you change. I second checking your valve clearances. It can't hurt. Cleaning the carbs is easy. It's just a matter of paying attention, reading good sources of info, and taking your time. Jetting is trial and error. If you have K&N filters with no air box, then removing them is easy. If you have the stock airbox in place, you need to pull the rear wheel off, pull out all the rear fenders, then pull the airbox out through the rear of the bike. Then, cut the battery tray off, being careful not to cut into the intake side of the airbox. Put it all back together. Now when you go to pull your carbs off all you need to do is remove the battery and 2 bolts and peel the airbox back instead of taking the bike half-way apart. |
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July 3rd, 2012, 12:20 PM | #28 |
Fighterer in Training
Name: Joshua
Location: Schenectady, NY
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2001 Ninja 250R Posts: 316
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The hesitation its definitely a lean condition. I have the same filter with 110 mains and stock exhaust. Airbox delete. I thot my chain was causing the hesitation. It wasn't. Cheap and dirty fix? I ran duct tape around the aire filter to restrict the air intake. Practically have it covered. Cut about 4 half-inch slits in the tape on each side. Problem solved.
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July 3rd, 2012, 12:39 PM | #29 | |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
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next someone is going to say just run with the choke on
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July 3rd, 2012, 01:10 PM | #30 |
Fighterer in Training
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July 3rd, 2012, 01:54 PM | #31 | |
KThanksBye
Name: Kevin
Location: Orange County
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Quote:
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July 3rd, 2012, 02:12 PM | #32 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Karl
Location: MA
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I've seen people do similar modifications to Honda CBs with the Keihin CV carbs with the heavy aluminum "puck" slides to increase vacuum in order for them to work with the airbox removed. However, their mods appeared to be much cleaner than "wrapping duct tape around it".
I think that it's just much easier to use the stock setup than re-jetting for a street machine. Think about it, why? The bike can already very easily exceed the speed limit in stock form. Quicker than most cages to boot. Why do you need to make it unreliable, more complicated, more expensive, for such little gain that you can't legally use? It just blows my mind that people spend such great money on modifying their machines, yet you never see them at the track. You do usually see them pulled over getting arrested for street racing though! |
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July 3rd, 2012, 02:17 PM | #33 | |
KThanksBye
Name: Kevin
Location: Orange County
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 zx636r Posts: A lot.
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Then why ever buy a 600 or a 1000? Why not just have a ruckus? (which are badass btw) Why have a bigger house then you need? Its human nature to not leave **** alone, its fun, and gives us something to do. I modded the living **** out of my street 250 but sadly never took it to the track. My 636 puts down more power then 4 stock 250's, I love it on the street and on the track.
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July 3rd, 2012, 03:29 PM | #35 |
KThanksBye
Name: Kevin
Location: Orange County
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 zx636r Posts: A lot.
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July 3rd, 2012, 05:12 PM | #36 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Karl
Location: MA
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2000 Kwak Ninja 250 and 1998 Yamaha YZ400F Posts: 534
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Quote:
Last futzed with by dirty nasty; July 3rd, 2012 at 08:40 PM. |
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July 3rd, 2012, 07:48 PM | #37 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Dave
Location: Pittsburgh
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Off topic, but OP - join us over in the Pittsburgh thread .
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July 5th, 2012, 01:07 PM | #38 |
Fighterer in Training
Name: Joshua
Location: Schenectady, NY
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July 5th, 2012, 05:00 PM | #39 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
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issue is; thats not a fix. its a crutch to kinda get it close to what it should be. the fix is to do it correctly.
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July 5th, 2012, 05:53 PM | #40 |
Fighterer in Training
Name: Joshua
Location: Schenectady, NY
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I offered a solution to the OPs problem. I had the same symptoms, and offered what I did to remedy it so it would run the way I wanted it to. I have yet to read a 'correct' solution to the problem. Ideally, I would fab a fiberglass shield to put around the filter, with a vent like on a bbq grill to control the flow for varying atmospheric conditions. Or I could keep buying bigger jets and hope that thru trial and error, I eventually come across the right size. Would those be correct ways to solve the problem? Maybe. But the weather's awesome, and I want to get out and ride. Not tear down, rebuild, test, wash, rinse ,repeat. Zzzzzzzzzz.... So if anyone has a solution, post up. I'm all ears. I'm not crazy about duct tape on my filter myself, but it did the trick. And until I have the time and resources for a more permanent solution, thats how I'll be riding.
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