What is this sound? Is this what out-of-spec valves sound like?

[CZroe]

My engine started sounding funny today.

Memo.zip

It's and M4A audio file from my phone's voice recorder recorded while I took it around the parking lot in 1st & 2nd gear. It should play fine in Quicktime or VLC player (voice recording from my phone placed on the tank bag). The phone was placed on the tank bag with the mic facing the triple.

The noise is hard to hear in the recording at first though obvious in person. I usually pick it out around the 20-second mark but it's obvious too me between 30-40 seconds. Basically, there is an extra sound in sync with the usual banging of the engine which sounds like extra static-y noise in the clip (kinda like an amplified rattle in person). At first I thought it was something dragging on my discs until I realized that the noise is from the engine. It's tied to engine speed and not road speed/chain speed, and it also sounds like it is coming from the front (from the rider's perspective, it's loudest coming up from the triple tree).

Is that what valve noise sounds like?

I'm at 9,260 miles. That's 1,400 miles since my valve service at the now-defunct Alba Action Sports where they claimed (only a couple days before going under) that everything was in-spec. Despite their reputation for valve service, I suspect that they just took my $320+ and ran. I guess they at least took everything apart... I brought it in early one morning on the promise that it would be done that evening and yet it wasn't. It wasn't even ready for pick up when I arrived the next morning as they instructed me to do.

I'm hoping I'm wrong because I can't afford another valve service now, but I'm also hoping it isn't something worse.

[bob706]

I can't open the file. Maybe get it up on stands with the engine running and fairings off to try and get a better idea what it is. Might be a loose fitting rattling around. I would hope that they didn't take your money and run which unfortunately is possible.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by bob706

I can't open the file. Maybe get it up on stands with the engine running and fairings off to try and get a better idea what it is. Might be a loose fitting rattling around. I would hope that they didn't take your money and run which unfortunately is possible.

Thanks. I'm pretty sure it's not a simple rattle, but I'll definitely try to localize it better than that.

If you're interested in hearing it and you don't have Quicktime installed, VLC is a small self-contained media player which can handle it on pretty much any operating system. If you do have Quicktime installed and it doesn't launch when you double click the file, it's still possible to open it by either launching QT first or SHIFT+Right Click>Open With (in Windows). Of course, in either case, you have to extract the audio file from the zip file first.

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by CZroe

I'm at 9,260 miles. That's 1,400 miles since my valve service at the now-defunct Alba Action Sports where they claimed (only a couple days before going under) that everything was in-spec. Despite their reputation for valve service, I suspect that they just took my $320+ and ran. I guess they at least took everything apart... I brought it in early one morning on the promise that it would be done that evening and yet it wasn't. It wasn't even ready for pick up when I arrived the next morning as they instructed me to do.

Says the have a rep for shims, not really for doing valve adjustments...

I like that link you posted. The aftermarket wiring on that bike makes me laugh.

Will have to listen to your audio file at home. < didnt really notice anything strange, you shifting gear while on stand?

[noche_caliente]

Don't really know what it was, but I did convert your file so folks might be able to open it easier - here it is as a mp3 file

[CZroe]

Well, even though it made the sound on every ride that day (and night), I took it out twice more and haven't heard the sound since. Weird.

Originally Posted by HKr1

Says the have a rep for shims, not really for doing valve adjustments...

I like that link you posted. The aftermarket wiring on that bike makes me laugh.

Will have to listen to your audio file at home. < didnt really notice anything strange, you shifting gear while on stand?

Heh, yeah, their rep as far as valves are concerned was for providing a unique service for doing valve work... mail-order shim exchange. AFAIK, they were the only one known to offer such a service. Also, pull-out quotes like this help: "Alba technicians actually took the time to ... assure that I got as close to the 0.025 mm increment shims needed." It just seemed like a strong endorsement coming from a customer over a thousand miles away who has never seen them. I guess that wiring is for his horn upgrade that he's so proud of.

Originally Posted by noche_caliente

Don't really know what it was, but I did convert your file so folks might be able to open it easier - here it is as a mp3 file

I had converted it to MP3 originally too but MP3 noticeably changes it even at high bitrates so I chose to stick with the original. Converting it to WAV or lossless formats on my work PC proved difficult because they aren't lossless if you can't match the source sample rate, which VLC Portable could not do automatically. Anything I manually specified would result in pulsing and clicking in the audio that was not from the source. Thanks though.

[headshrink]

I don't hear anything... sounds better than mine, which is a little chattery.

[Robbo81]

sorry but it sounds just like mine. I hope I don't have something wrong

[CZroe]

Well, yeah, the engine sounds fine. The noise, on the other hand, sounds like echo/background noise that your mind tries to filter out, but it's there. In person it's obvious but in a recording you probably can't tell unless you knew what to listen for. You have to ignore the engine noise and listen for that...
"ssshhh---ssshhh--ssshhh-sssssssssssssssssss[...]sssssssssssssssssss-ssshhh--ssshhh---ssshhh"
...sound that is coming in sync with it (at lower speeds it clearly pulses with the engine, at higher speeds it sounds like wires dragging on the road if you can hear it over the wind noise. In person, it was obvious while accelerating/decelerating. At first, before I could tell that it wasn't wheel speed, I thought I had steel wool or something caught in my front brakes... this is with a taped up helmet with a wind skirt and a headset installed while listening to the radio.

But, well, it's gone now. I need to check for missing bolts!

Originally Posted by HKr1

Says the have a rep for shims, not really for doing valve adjustments...

I like that link you posted. The aftermarket wiring on that bike makes me laugh.

Will have to listen to your audio file at home. < didnt really notice anything strange, you shifting gear while on stand?

Oh... and it wasn't on the stand. That was driving it around the parking lot.

[headshrink]

Any updates on your noise?

Edit: I just found this on youtube... is this what yours sounds like (mine does)?

[Midnightrider]

One way to check engine noise is to remove the fairings, crank her up and use a mechanics stethoscope to listen to different areas of your engine. You can purchase a mechanics stethoscope at Harbor Freight for around $6.00. As far as your valve service goes I would have been more worried if they had your Ninja ready right away. The engine needs to be cold and at room temp. before you check valve tolerances. Most good techs let an engine set 24 hrs before they check valve tolerances. I hope its just something on the outside of the engine rattling. Good luck.

[Snake]

How long has it been since you changed the oil? My bike starts to "tick" when the oil gets close to changing time.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by headshrink

Any updates on your noise?

Edit: I just found this on youtube... is this what yours sounds like (mine does)?

Mine stopped making the noise. It was not nearly as loud and was more of a scraping sound than a ticking/knocking sound.

Originally Posted by Snake

How long has it been since you changed the oil? My bike starts to "tick" when the oil gets close to changing time.

Mine was changed at the service interval we were talking about, so... not long.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Our valves (shim under bucket) get tighter with wear. You won't get the clackety clack type of sound that a loose pushrod or other design would have.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

Our valves (shim under bucket) get tighter with wear. You won't get the clackety clack type of sound that a loose pushrod or other design would have.

Good to know, very good to know....
I knew they were bucket types, but since I am learning as I go, I didn't understand fully how differently this would affect things.

My assumption then, based on everything I have found on the net thus far, is the culprit is most likely the cam chain tightener.... I checked this morning with my "ear scope" and confirmed it is coming from the right side.

[APEmike]

Cam chain rattle. Get a manual cam chain tensioner and call it a day.

[dcj13]

Looks like it's "dead thread" bump day!

[Roark]

Sounds like an engine

[headshrink]

Oh my goodness, someone dug up my newbie days.... I've been singing the praises of manual CCTs for years now. Gotta check those dates after digging so deep.

[CZroe]

So, I come back after being gone for years and find a single notification for “Helpful post.” Turns out it was some guy marking my OP “unhelpful.” :/

Ya think?!

I was the one asking for help!

[Alex]

hee-hee...

Welcome back!

[headshrink]

12 years later, LOL!

[shspvr]

Originally Posted by CZroe

So, I come back after being gone for years and find a single notification for “Helpful post.” Turns out it was some guy marking my OP “unhelpful.” :/

Ya think?!

I was the one asking for help!

Man this old but I wonder are talk about the popping sound when let of the throttle ?.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by shspvr

Man this old but I wonder are talk about the popping sound when let of the throttle ?.

I don’t think I ever had anything like that but I do recall the sound coming back around 2012 and I believe it was the CCT, as some here suggested originally (thanks!). My guess is that it was stuck retracted and wasn’t fully extended yet after being reset.

[shspvr]

Originally Posted by CZroe

I don’t think I ever had anything like that but I do recall the sound coming back around 2012 and I believe it was the CCT, as some here suggested originally (thanks!). My guess is that it was stuck retracted and wasn’t fully extended yet after being reset.

That could be what I'm hearing as I ware a hearing aid what sound a pop or thug slap did sound like a tab bit to lose of a cam chain as I can hear as you letting off the throttle so your tensioner didn't apply enough pressure usually I can feel this and hear it.
You all know that Chevy, Ford V8 are bad about this