front end suspension setup

[alex.s]

ok guise. im curious about your front end setups. i ordered .75 sonic springs. a bit heavy for a stripped ninjette but i'm a fatass so it should make up for it. i have 10w and 20w oil but i'm not sure how thick i want to go with it yet so i haven't mixed it... no emulators or special valving. stock rear height with front forks set at 22mm above the triple. was running 003s but i got some rosso 2 on the cheap... so here's the question... what combo are you guys running? what tire/damping rate combos did you like/dislike? how fat is your ass and what springs are you running? how much weight have you stripped off your baby?

[Dmented]

Originally Posted by alex.s

ok guise. im curious about your front end setups. i ordered .75 sonic springs. a bit heavy for a stripped ninjette but i'm a fatass so it should make up for it. i have 10w and 20w oil but i'm not sure how thick i want to go with it yet so i haven't mixed it... no emulators or special valving. stock rear height with front forks set at 22mm above the triple. was running 003s but i got some rosso 2 on the cheap... so here's the question... what combo are you guys running? what tire/damping rate combos did you like/dislike? how fat is your ass and what springs are you running? how much weight have you stripped off your baby?

i weigh 195 lbs.
i run 15w oil in the front.
i ran stock before getting .8 springs and crashing.
i need emulators to get rid of nasty chatter.
I'm on bridgestone slicks ran around 30 psi.
bikes seems WAY stiff before but at least i'm not doing a pogo move around the WHOLE track. now i just chatter...

[alex.s]

hey darren where are you getting chatter with your setup?

[tooblekain]

There are at least 2 dozen things that can effect your suspension...

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by tooblekain

There are at least 2 dozen things that can effect your suspension...

spring rates and how much a pound weighs should be the same across bikes. though different brands of oil makers do define their weights differently (15w might be 17w or 13w depending on manufacturer) however the biggest difference is in how the rider puts input into the bike. most people quantify their suspension settings for springs in terms of static/dynamic sags as well as bottom out locations for the springs/preload and for a similarly weighted bike/rider combo, sags and bottom out compression weight should be very similar. damping however is pretty much completely magic numbers, however its pretty useful to know what kind of damping adjustments people have made based on the tire compound/carcass type they use... example being very sticky tires requiring higher damping to put more load on the tire carcass instead of the dampers

[Kevin2109]

[tooblekain]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

And with regards to your signature on the bottom...

[alex.s]

i think its a [ you ] tag actually

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by tooblekain

Originally Posted by tooblekain

And with regards to your signature on the bottom...

[alex.s]

this thread is suffering from socalmoto disorder...

come on e'rrybobby, meme fight!

[9lives]

Originally Posted by tooblekain

There are at least 2 dozen things that can effect your suspension...

I was expecting a reply like that nicely played.

[Rexbo]

Back on topic. Not gonna lie, what probably improved my front chatter the most was raising up the rear end of the bike. I went from running wide every corner exit to being able to hold any line I like now, with chatter only happening when I run too deep on the brakes or the pavement isn't perfect.

But the forks are set with .7 springs (I'm 160 lbs), 12wt oil, racetech emulators, 20mm tube showing above triple, and my dogbones in back. Also don't weigh the handlebars

[Dmented]

Originally Posted by alex.s

hey darren where are you getting chatter with your setup?

I experience slight to moderate chatter in 8 or more of the 17 turns...
then again, I weight the FUUUGG out of my bars because,

A: I'm heavier in my chest region
2: I have broad shoulders
III: I make up excuses why I can't stop weighting the bars.

[Dmented]

Dmented's Chatter map
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[psych0hans]

I'm currently running a stock setup but I haven't really hit the track yet, so I don't know where I'm lacking. I'll be tracking my bike in the first weekend of November, so I'll have a better Idea then. I already have a suspension upgrade planned though.

.70/75 fork springs (racetech/sonic)
15w fork oil
Racetech emulators
GSXR rear shock
Not sure if I'll change the rear spring, but I'll find out eventually...

I'll do my first track weekend on stock suspension/tires and then upgrade before my second track weekend sometime in feb. CSS here I come!!!

[rojoracing53]

What year and model GSXR shocks are you guys using I'm assuming their stock shocks. Are you using the stock spring or changing it, also does anyone know if a r-1/r-6 stock would fit(I can get these all day long)

[dino74]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

What year and model GSXR shocks are you guys using I'm assuming their stock shocks. Are you using the stock spring or changing it, also does anyone know if a r-1/r-6 stock would fit(I can get these all day long)

J,

I think this thread http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59486 has alot on the GXSR rear shock.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Rexbo

Back on topic. Not gonna lie, what probably improved my front chatter the most was raising up the rear end of the bike. I went from running wide every corner exit to being able to hold any line I like now, with chatter only happening when I run too deep on the brakes or the pavement isn't perfect.

But the forks are set with .7 springs (I'm 160 lbs), 12wt oil, racetech emulators, 20mm tube showing above triple, and my dogbones in back. Also don't weigh the handlebars

did you notice much difference running with emulators?

also how much did your bike weigh out to? 280? i weighed mine without the bellypan with 2 gallons of gas at 285... trying to figure out what else to remove :-X

[Trailerboy531]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

What year and model GSXR shocks are you guys using I'm assuming their stock shocks. Are you using the stock spring or changing it, also does anyone know if a r-1/r-6 stock would fit(I can get these all day long)

Mr. Fancy Pants I used to ride the **** out of Yamahas so I get all kinds of free parts..

Wait....

I have a crashed r6 that I need parts for.. HELPPPPPPPPPP

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by Trailerboy531

Mr. Fancy Pants I used to ride the **** out of Yamahas so I get all kinds of free parts..

Wait....

I have a crashed r6 that I need parts for.. HELPPPPPPPPPP

Invest half a million $ in racing over several years and maybe Yamaha will hook you up to

I gave everything I had to Jay when I retired so I'm sure he has a shock or two laying around. What do you need and ill check on it for you.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Invest half a million $ in racing over several years and maybe Yamaha will hook you up to

I gave everything I had to Jay when I retired so I'm sure he has a shock or two laying around. What do you need and ill check on it for you.

he needs the entire bike... lol

[Dmented]

Originally Posted by alex.s

this thread is suffering from socalmoto disorder...

come on e'rrybobby, meme fight!

whops...
I didn't see this... BRB

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Rexbo

Back on topic. Not gonna lie, what probably improved my front chatter the most was raising up the rear end of the bike. I went from running wide every corner exit to being able to hold any line I like now, with chatter only happening when I run too deep on the brakes or the pavement isn't perfect.

But the forks are set with .7 springs (I'm 160 lbs), 12wt oil, racetech emulators, 20mm tube showing above triple, and my dogbones in back. Also don't weigh the handlebars

You're welcome.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

You're welcome.

what were you running jon?

i know you had a fancy schmancy ohlins rear...

[psych0hans]

How much of a difference will a change in the weight of the fork oil make? I'm 155lbs and Race Tech has recommended I use 15w with .70 springs. I've ordered .70 springs, but I only have access to 20w oil... What shall I do? I MAY be able to get 10w... Is it a good idea to mix the two?

[rojoracing53]

Yes mixing is ok

[alex.s]

you can mix... for example 50%/50% of 10 and 20 will make 15. 75% 20 and 25% 10 makes 17.5

[Somchai]

@psych0hans - Hans one tipp if you're mixing the oil maybe best to go is 12.5 like alex said but only use 75% 10W and 25% 20W, i went with 15W but had to set the oil level from standard 108mm to 115mm so it's not to stiff. Or maybe, because of your low weight, better go with 10W and set the oil level at 100mm.
The second for your fegv's maybe it's a good idea to use the blue springs with 2 or 2.5 turns, i'm using yellow with 1.5 turns. But at least that's a personally setup.

@alex.s - Alex maybe this chart about Fork oil can give you some informations.

[1ER6F]

Originally Posted by alex.s

did you notice much difference running with emulators?

also how much did your bike weigh out to? 280? i weighed mine without the bellypan with 2 gallons of gas at 285... trying to figure out what else to remove :-X

285 lbs!!??? I seriously need to research how and where I can shed some weight!
I wanted to get an ideal of my bike weight before I ordered my springs so I went down to the local dump/landfill yesterday and weighed in. The scale indicated 520 lbs with me on the bike. That's 158 lbs for myself, 12 lbs for my gear, and 350 lbs for the bike. And that was with a little over 1/4 tank of gas. Granted, the bike is stock and it's a California emissions model, that is quite a difference!

I ended up ordering the .75 springs from SonicSprings based on a mixture of what I've researched here on the forum and my weight calculated from Racetech's website.
My first track day is going to be in a couple weeks. My plan is to swap out the springs, use the existing stock fork oil and see how it feels from there. I imagine I'll probably have to convert to a thicker weight oil though...

[psych0hans]

When you guys go about reducing the weight of your bike by throwing things out, do you guys pay any attention to how this affects the weight distribution and in turn the handling characteristics? I believe the ideal weight distribution is 50/50, but lets say you remove the exhaust, that will definitely make it heavier in the front than the back... Same goes for passenger foot pegs, etc...

[Dmented]

Originally Posted by psych0hans

When you guys go about reducing the weight of your bike by throwing things out, do you guys pay any attention to how this affects the weight distribution and in turn the handling characteristics? I believe the ideal weight distribution is 50/50, but lets say you remove the exhaust, that will definitely make it heavier in the front than the back... Same goes for passenger foot pegs, etc...

maybe you WANT it heavier in the front for more "bite" and "feel"... or you could change geometry OR body positioning. there are SOOOOO many factors.

[psych0hans]

Originally Posted by Dmented

maybe you WANT it heavier in the front for more "bite" and "feel"... or you could change geometry OR body positioning. there are SOOOOO many factors.

I'm just thinking out loud, I honestly don't know diddly squat about suspensions and handling etc... except what I've gathered over various sites. I remember on twist of the throttle, Keith Code says that most bikes are setup with a 50/50 weight distribution. So what you're saying is, if some more weight is concentrated on the front, it might actually be better? Thanks in advance.

[Dmented]

Originally Posted by psych0hans

I'm just thinking out loud, I honestly don't know diddly squat about suspensions and handling etc... except what I've gathered over various sites. I remember on twist of the throttle, Keith Code says that most bikes are setup with a 50/50 weight distribution. So what you're saying is, if some more weight is concentrated on the front, it might actually be better? Thanks in advance.

I also just say things out loud...
tourettes maybe?
I'm decently paced but only know a little bit about the mechanics of it all. I'd say ask shane or steven more about suspension setup. I can give you all the advice i know but you still gotta get out there and toss her around.

[psych0hans]

Originally Posted by Dmented

I can give you all the advice i know but you still gotta get out there and toss her around.

Truer words have never been said... It just seems that right now the track is eluding me with all its might... lol I'll persist though and get there eventually... Thanks again!!!

[alex.s]

you honestly can do 95% with a stock bike. if skill is limiting you to only 50%, you dont need the extra 5%, you know what i mean? sure is fun to tinker with though

[zx6racer]

Originally Posted by Dmented

i weigh 195 lbs.
i run 15w oil in the front.
i ran stock before getting .8 springs and crashing.
i need emulators to get rid of nasty chatter.
I'm on bridgestone slicks ran around 30 psi.
bikes seems WAY stiff before but at least i'm not doing a pogo move around the WHOLE track. now i just chatter...

Darren, your rear is set too stiff. i was doing the same thing, chatter everywhere. ed sorbo and i did some tweaking, cranked the high speed damping all the way down, softened the compression and rebound. he said the rear was loading the front because it was not "moving" evenly. Im still not even completely, the front is still a bit too soft but went out after the adjustment and ran 2:01.1 with no chatter at all. AND KEEP YOUR FAST ASS MEAT HOOKS LOOSE ON THE BARS!!!!!!!!!

[Dmented]

Originally Posted by zx6racer

Darren, your rear is set too stiff. AND KEEP YOUR FAST ASS MEAT HOOKS LOOSE ON THE BARS!!!!!!!!!

I'm not sure about the rear being too stiff. bike actually FEELS planted. but DAYUM you hit it on the money about weighting the bars! some day's i got a fairy girl touch on 'em but normally I'm going O.J. simpson on it's neck! I can't seen to ride loose. I feel like i gotta beat 'em up everywhere. that's why i stopped going to the gym so i can loose my monkey grip.
anyone got pointers. besides BREATH and JUST LOOSEN UP.

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by Dmented

I'm not sure about the rear being too stiff. bike actually FEELS planted. but DAYUM you hit it on the money about weighting the bars! some day's i got a fairy girl touch on 'em but normally I'm going O.J. simpson on it's neck! I can't seen to ride loose. I feel like i gotta beat 'em up everywhere. that's why i stopped going to the gym so i can loose my monkey grip.
anyone got pointers. besides BREATH and JUST LOOSEN UP.

Maybe you could try a medical aid

[Dmented]

see, that's the thing, i could, ummm, if we, wait... what were we talking about?

[Zombiphone]

Originally Posted by Dmented

I'm not sure about the rear being too stiff. bike actually FEELS planted. but DAYUM you hit it on the money about weighting the bars! some day's i got a fairy girl touch on 'em but normally I'm going O.J. simpson on it's neck! I can't seen to ride loose. I feel like i gotta beat 'em up everywhere. that's why i stopped going to the gym so i can loose my monkey grip.
anyone got pointers. besides BREATH and JUST LOOSEN UP.

Sounds to me like..... D needs some practice

When I took Pridmore's school, he suggested a pretty cool and simple drill that consisted of consciously inhaling from entrance to apex, then exhaling through the exit of each turn. Really hard to remember to do, and I need to work on that one myself quite a bit, but maybe a good exercise to try?