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Old March 29th, 2019, 09:48 PM   #1
Thatgloverguy
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'06 Ninja 250R - starting/stalling issues

I recently bought my wife an '06 250. Initially, all was well. We only rode it for short periods of maybe 10-30 minutes until we could get it all legal and always on backroads going <50mph...until about 2 weeks ago.

Some bike history: Previous owner said the bike had sat in the garage for several months with fuel stabilizer. Bike test drove well and the only issue I could find was a small leak around the petcock. Since purchase I've replaced gas, changed oil, and changed spark plugs.

Where the problems start:
About 20 minutes into a ride, and 5 minutes of steady speeds of 65+mph, the bike began to jump a bit, lose power, sporadic throttle reponse, and it died. I tried choke, opening the gas cap, swapping to reserve, but couldn't get it to start back up. We waited about 5 minutes and it fired right up. The bike ran for about 2 minutes, lost power and died again. I repeated this stall, troubleshoot, wait, start, ride, stall cycle several times until we finally got the bike back home. The next day I took apart the petcock to see if I was having fueling issues related to the leak. I found that the petcock would flow gasoline freely with engine off/no vacuum. So I replaced the spring and fixed that issue. I'm currently awaiting a brand new petcock from partzilla, and will go ahead and replace the whole thing because I couldn't stop the leak.

The next day I took the bike for a ride to see if I still had issues. Again, five minutes into highway speeds and it died. I repeated the cycld of starting/dying again until I got home. I noticed that while idling my rpm's were all over the place, and it died idling several times. Choke didn't seem to help, nor did opening the gas tank. Since then, the bike won't start at all. I have two theories, 1: Before I replaced the petcock spring, the engine was being flooded with fuel, and now the new spring is causing too much restriction, starving it. 2: My carbs are likely gummed up and need cleaned or rebuilt.

Before I start messing with the carbs, I'm going to see if the new petcock gives any improvement. But while I await it's shipment, I've come across some things I'd like some opinions on (I'm not very versed on motorcycle repair or mechanics, so please bare with me.)


1. The rubber vent hose that runs from the rear of the gas tank. Is this actually a vent? The hose itself isn't plugged. I've removed it and blown clear through it. But with it attached to the tank, I can't blow any air whatsoever through it. Is this normal?

2. I drained the float bowls after the bike wouldn't start at all. There was about 2 tbsp of gas in the left one (closest to petcock), and only 1/2 tsp in the right one. Then I cranked the bike for 10 secs, no start, and drained them again with the same result...seems odd?

3. I noticed this small hose on the left side of the carb was slightly kined. http://imgur.com/a/oZP9qmk Can anyone tell me what this hose connects? Could restriction here cause issues like mine?

Thanks for reading. I'm sorry that my first post had to be a lengthy call for help, but I'm so lost.
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Old March 30th, 2019, 06:22 AM   #2
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I had the same problem with one of mine, it was the tiny inline fuel filter (what I see in the pic). It just couldn't flow enough to keep up with the demands of highway (or track) riding. I put a bigger inline filter on and problem was solved. If it runs ok other than dying I'll bet the carbs are ok.

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Old March 30th, 2019, 06:29 AM   #3
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The actual tank venting is through the gas cap, and that can get clogged. It may or may not be related to your current problem, but it's worth checking and cleaning that anyway.
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Old March 30th, 2019, 06:36 AM   #4
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If I'm looking at the pic. correctly, the kinked hose is the one that goes to the enriching valve, gives the engine a slightly richer mixture when you chop the throttle so it doesn't backfire while slowing. So the worst it would do (if kinked off) is pop out the exhaust when you cut the throttle.
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Old March 30th, 2019, 07:07 AM   #5
Thatgloverguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z1R rider View Post
I had the same problem with one of mine, it was the tiny inline fuel filter (what I see in the pic). It just couldn't flow enough to keep up with the demands of highway (or track) riding. I put a bigger inline filter on and problem was solved. If it runs ok other than dying I'll bet the carbs are ok.

PS: welcome to the board
I think you may be right. I took it off and washed it out with seafoam. It was almost full of what looked like grey mud.
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Old March 30th, 2019, 07:09 AM   #6
Thatgloverguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z1R rider View Post
If I'm looking at the pic. correctly, the kinked hose is the one that goes to the enriching valve, gives the engine a slightly richer mixture when you chop the throttle so it doesn't backfire while slowing. So the worst it would do (if kinked off) is pop out the exhaust when you cut the throttle.
Ahh, gotcha. I think I'll straighten it out anyway. I'm in the process of slowly getting rid of zip ties. They're EVERYWHERE on this bike.
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Old March 30th, 2019, 07:18 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z1R rider View Post
I had the same problem with one of mine, it was the tiny inline fuel filter (what I see in the pic). It just couldn't flow enough to keep up with the demands of highway (or track) riding. I put a bigger inline filter on and problem was solved. If it runs ok other than dying I'll bet the carbs are ok.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
The actual tank venting is through the gas cap, and that can get clogged. It may or may not be related to your current problem, but it's worth checking and cleaning that anyway.
What they said. Your description makes it sound like it's temporarily "running out of gas". Obviously, a fuel filter that's clogged or too small could cause fuel starvation.

The tank vent can also result in this, as it causes a vacuum in the tank that keeps fuel from flowing out like it's supposed to. It's the equivalent of shutting off the petcock, so the carbs actually do run out of fuel. Opening the gas cap will fix it, but you'll still have to wait for fuel to flow down and refill the carbs again. If the bike has already stalled, that means some time spent cranking the engine to create vacuum and open the petcock (assuming it's working properly). If you keep a spare key in the gas cap, you can test it by popping it open while riding when the problem starts. It should behave like flipping to Reserve when you're low on gas - it may take a moment, but gas should start flowing into the carbs and it'll run like normal again.
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Old March 30th, 2019, 12:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z1R rider View Post
I had the same problem with one of mine, it was the tiny inline fuel filter (what I see in the pic). It just couldn't flow enough to keep up with the demands of highway (or track) riding. I put a bigger inline filter on and problem was solved. If it runs ok other than dying I'll bet the carbs are ok.

PS: welcome to the board

I suspected that, but since I'm not familiar with the fueling system and symptoms when there are issues I just left it to experts to chime in.

Here's the inline fuel filter I chose to put in my '04. This is a genuine Kawasaki part. Item #49019-1081. I had to soften the rubber hose with a blow dryer in order for it to stretch and fit nicely.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg EX250inlinefuelfilter.jpg (58.3 KB, 74 views)
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Old March 30th, 2019, 07:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvisiBill View Post
What they said. Your description makes it sound like it's temporarily "running out of gas". Obviously, a fuel filter that's clogged or too small could cause fuel starvation.

The tank vent can also result in this, as it causes a vacuum in the tank that keeps fuel from flowing out like it's supposed to. It's the equivalent of shutting off the petcock, so the carbs actually do run out of fuel. Opening the gas cap will fix it, but you'll still have to wait for fuel to flow down and refill the carbs again. If the bike has already stalled, that means some time spent cranking the engine to create vacuum and open the petcock (assuming it's working properly). If you keep a spare key in the gas cap, you can test it by popping it open while riding when the problem starts. It should behave like flipping to Reserve when you're low on gas - it may take a moment, but gas should start flowing into the carbs and it'll run like normal again.
I tried running with the gas tank open with no improvement. I'm thinking from all of the advice here that it's the fuel filter and possibly faulty petcock. Both will be replaced by Wednesday...so we will see
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Old March 30th, 2019, 08:04 PM   #10
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Check to see that inline filter INSIDE fuel-hose just before carbs isn't reversed and crumpled in on itself.

I've also had vacuum hose going to petcock be crimped by tank when i layed it down. Causing petcock to cut out after a couple minutes.
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Old April 10th, 2019, 08:24 PM   #11
Thatgloverguy
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Update on this issue:

I replaced the petcock and inline fuel filter. Also, as others suggested, I blew some air throught the tank vent and it was definitley plugged. Today, the bike started right up with choke, and after some idle adjustment, seemed to run just fine without the choke on.

I let it run for a few minutes, and noticed white smoke coming from the exhaust. Not clouds, but a quickly dissapating color to the exhaust gas. Also a good bit of what appeared to be gasoline leaked from the mufflers. Probably a full cup worth drained from the right muffler and just a small bit from the left. As soon as I noticed, I shut it down.

Any ideas on this?
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Old April 10th, 2019, 09:17 PM   #12
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Leaking float valves dumping tons of fuel into the intake, possibly combined with a leaking petcock that lets it happen while parked, so a bunch builds up for next time you try to start it.

Yes, I know you said you replaced the petcock... I'm just trying to explain your symptoms.
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Old April 10th, 2019, 11:28 PM   #13
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Now that you've solved your fuel-supply issues, you may have fuel-shutoff problem in carbs.

I actually had leaking float-valves that continued to drip petrol out carb throats and down into cylinders well after I turned off bike. After weekend of sitting, enough petrol filled one cylinder enough to hydrolock it. When I went to start, it went >BOOM< with huge backfire, then whhrrrrrr of starter continued. It had stripped 4 teeth off starter ring-gear!!!
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Old April 11th, 2019, 06:01 AM   #14
Thatgloverguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Now that you've solved your fuel-supply issues, you may have fuel-shutoff problem in carbs.

I actually had leaking float-valves that continued to drip petrol out carb throats and down into cylinders well after I turned off bike. After weekend of sitting, enough petrol filled one cylinder enough to hydrolock it. When I went to start, it went >BOOM< with huge backfire, then whhrrrrrr of starter continued. It had stripped 4 teeth off starter ring-gear!!!
So best course of action is to remove carbs and look for stuck float valves?
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Old April 11th, 2019, 06:20 AM   #15
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You won't necessarily see much when you look at them. If they're leaking, it's because they don't seal properly when the fuel level makes the floats rise. They may be dirty, or they may be worn at the tips or at the seats, or they may not be moving freely.

The float valves can't leak fuel into the engine when parked if the vacuum operated petcock is working properly, so if it's happening, both the petcock and at least one float valve is leaking.
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Old May 2nd, 2019, 10:59 PM   #16
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Update on this issue!

I took apart the carburetor today and found the pilot jet sitting in the bottom of the bowl. It looks as if a previous owner or shop broke the head off of the jet and decided to screw it back in with what little threads were left on it. It must have vibrated loose over time and finally popped out. New pilot jet on the way, so we should be up in running next week
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