July 12th, 2016, 05:58 AM | #1 |
CCS Amateur #501
Name: Dave
Location: Iowa
Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): '09 250 SE 'Booger' Posts: 406
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Mupo Hydraulic Fork Valves
I ordered these which are for a ninja 300. Im going to try to use them on my newgen 250. They also came with a gasket material which goes into the silver groove, and a new set of spacers for the fork springs which Im not going to use.
Each valve has two shim stacks, one for compression (next to the nut) and the other for rebound (next to black piece). Fluid enters the little notches opposite the respective shim stack, goes thru passages inside the grooved silver piece, then thru the shim stack. It does not look like these affect the flow of fork oil going thru the rebound hole on the damper tubes. Instructions call to shorten the fork spring spacer 25mm. They also specify 10w fork oil. |
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July 12th, 2016, 08:02 AM | #2 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
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When you ordered was it a one size fits all? Or did they have you specify rider weight, type of use (race/street/etc)?
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July 12th, 2016, 10:04 AM | #3 | |
CCS Amateur #501
Name: Dave
Location: Iowa
Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): '09 250 SE 'Booger' Posts: 406
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Quote:
It doesnt look to be adjustable. The nut does not adjust tension as a gold valve would do. Once I see that it fits correctly on my bike Ill unseal the 'owners manual' that it came with. |
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July 22nd, 2016, 10:59 AM | #4 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Mike
Location: Los Angeles, California
Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 1988 Honda Hawk GT 1989 EX250F (Died from left-turning car) 2011 EX250J (Died from SAME left-turning car) Posts: 51
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Oh man. Thanks for posting.
Compression AND rebound? I must try this. BTW you're right, the link won't show their 250J parts. Racetech emulator part FEGV S3501 is same for 250J, 250F and N300, so hopefully we're good!
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July 22nd, 2016, 11:42 AM | #5 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
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Still very interested in this thread and the results.
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Keep it rubber side down and enjoy the ride Get healthy - Get Fit - Change Your Life Click Here Or PM Me To Find More - Advocare |
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July 22nd, 2016, 01:51 PM | #6 |
EX500 full of EX250 parts
Name: Bill
Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold) Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
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I'm interested in how these work out too. They seem similar to Intiminators, but trading the inertia valve for shims on the rebound. On the track, I would expect that to be better. On the street, I could see it going either way.
(The Gen2 EX500 uses the same emulator part number also.)
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*** Unregistered, I'm not your mom and I'm not paying for your parts, so do whatever you want with your own bike. *** |
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July 22nd, 2016, 02:16 PM | #7 |
CCS Amateur #501
Name: Dave
Location: Iowa
Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): '09 250 SE 'Booger' Posts: 406
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I got 'em installed and rode with them at a trackday. More pics and report to come soon.
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July 22nd, 2016, 02:39 PM | #8 |
RIP Alex
Name: Cuong
Location: Houston, TX
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): '10 250r, '09 265r Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 2
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Gigging goo
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July 22nd, 2016, 07:03 PM | #9 |
CCS Amateur #501
Name: Dave
Location: Iowa
Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): '09 250 SE 'Booger' Posts: 406
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Installation
They come with installation instructions which basically say remove the caps & springs, remove old fork oil, put in some new fork oil, extend/compress forks a few times to get out air bubbles, drop in the valves, cover with oil, get air out, set oil level, install springs & cut down spacers, install caps, and off you go.
Not being sure whether they would fit the 250 (as these are sold for the 300), I decided to check the fit before installing them. The valves fit within the fork tube just fine. Next I pulled out a damper tube to see if would fit. To remove a tube easily, put bike on rear stand and triple tree stand, pull off wheel, unscrew bolt at bottom hole of fork, remove fork spring, then use an extendable magnet to pull up the damper. It appears the o-ring is intended to slide down into the ID of the damper tube as this is required to have the valve sit 25 mm above the top of the damper (and the instructions mention the 25mm in reference to fork spring & spacers). With my bike, the valve did not fit into the tube; the o-ring just wouldnt go into the damper tube. Measuring the OD of the valve (next to the oring) and the ID of the damper tube, there is only .002" difference between the two. For the oring to fit, it would need to completely collapse within its groove and it was just too thick and stiff to do so. However, it would fit just fine without the oring. The first pic shows the oring installed on the valve, the next shows the valve , without oring, in place on the damper. The last pic shows about how far down the valve goes into the damper, and where the rebound hole is licated on the damper. Thus the valve does not affect the flow of oil going thru the damper rebound hole. I put on my engineering hat and concluded that the lack of an oring would not impact damping performance. Im guessing its there for noise purposes and also saw that Mupo valves for some other bikes do not have orings either. Convinced they were going to fit, I reinstalled the damper tube (use magnet to guide it in, install screw at bottom of fork, then pull magnet away). Then I followed the instructions up to the point where you drop the valve into the fork leg. The third pic shows a greenish looking strip in my fingers. This is the seal which goes into the groove between the upper and lower shim stacks and forces the fork oil to go thru the shim stacks instead of leaking past the valve. On my first few attempts to get the valve to go into the fork tubes, the seal was just a hair too long for the valve to fit. I ended up sanding the end of the seal a little at a time until the valve finally did fit. Be careful here, a sloppy job will let fork oil leak past the shimstacks. Once it fit, however, my magnet was not strong enough to pull it out so Ill probably need to push the valves with a rod thru the bottom hole of the fork leg if I ever need to remove them. From this point, it was just a matter of following the directions to add oil and get the air out. The only trick really is that you need to push on something on top of the valves (i used forksprings & spacers) to extend the forks or else the valves will slide upwards from where they sit on the damper tubes. Once the oil level is set (i used the turkey baster and tubing method), cut your fork spring spacers 25mm (or the supplied spacers if they"re the right length for you), and reinstall the springs, washers, spacers, and fork caps, and thats basically it you are done. |
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July 23rd, 2016, 09:30 AM | #10 |
CCS Amateur #501
Name: Dave
Location: Iowa
Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): '09 250 SE 'Booger' Posts: 406
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Riding impression
Ok now for the hard part. How do they perform? Hard for me to be objective to be honest. I ride very little, under 1k mi per yr, mostly 40 mph 6 miles rountrip going to work, and now two trackdays at ~100 mi per day. I did the math and trackdays are my main purpose for this bike. Longer street rides are very rare for me.
I used Mupos recommendatipn for 10 wt oil and have it pretty close to their recommended oil ht. Prior to that, I had 15 wt fork oil at a similar height. Im 230 lbs and have .95 springs and 26mm fork sag. This is a pretty harsh spring setup for the street but working well so far for my slow track pace - faster novice or slower intermediate type pace right now. Generally speaking, the Mupo with 10 wt has a similar level of dampening to stock forks with 15 wt. I dont feel that one is overall softer or firmer than the other. In my brief amount of riding with the Mupos, here is what I have noticed. For smaller bumps, cracks in the pavement, etc, with the stock forks I would not feel them at all. With the Mupos, I do feel them now thru the handlebars a little bit. Not nearly enough to be objectionable, but now the bars are saying "hey theres a bump down here." The forks are still very compliant with slower movements, they dont feel at all like they are frozen like some have complained about the intiminators. Friction seems about the same as the stock forks. Bigger bumps seem to be absorbed over more stroke rather than the stock fork giving you a good jar thru the bars. Now my forks have a single clanking sound when the wheel falls into a hole, again not objectionable to me at all. Brake dive seems controlled well, no complaints at all. Pressing down hard on the handlebars while at a rest, the forks rebound smoothly and settle with very little overshoot. So how do they work? Id say the stock forks with 15 wt oil were a lot better than 10 wt oil. And the Mupos with 10 wt is a bit better than stock w/15. I cant say they'll get you a second a lap but Im keeping them in my forks. |
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July 24th, 2016, 02:26 PM | #11 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Corey
Location: Minneapolis
Join Date: Oct 2015 Motorcycle(s): 16' S1000RR, 04' CB919, CRF150/230, 07' 250R Posts: 41
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Are you going to be at RPM with this setup on Labor Day weekend?
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July 24th, 2016, 06:15 PM | #12 |
CCS Amateur #501
Name: Dave
Location: Iowa
Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): '09 250 SE 'Booger' Posts: 406
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Sept 10 is the plan! I think I might be able to hang with you guys on the track this time too as ive dropped 5-6 seconds a lap. You're welcome to take it for a spin. Id actually like jump up and down on a couple of your bikes to see how they compare against mine.
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July 29th, 2016, 07:56 AM | #13 |
CCS Amateur #501
Name: Dave
Location: Iowa
Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): '09 250 SE 'Booger' Posts: 406
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I just thought of domething regarding fit. The pregen forks are 36mm while newgen & 300 are 37 if I recall correctly. These valves seal against the inner diameter of the upper fork tube. Im guessing the ID of the pregen forks would be too small for these valves to fit.
The racetech GVE's seem to seal against the upper surface of the damper tube and probably have a large clearance with the fork tube ID. |
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August 2nd, 2016, 10:08 AM | #14 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Mike
Location: Los Angeles, California
Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 1988 Honda Hawk GT 1989 EX250F (Died from left-turning car) 2011 EX250J (Died from SAME left-turning car) Posts: 51
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Confirmed:
Does not fit in PreGen damper rod.
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August 3rd, 2016, 07:20 AM | #15 |
EX500 full of EX250 parts
Name: Bill
Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold) Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Aug '15
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Anyone got measurements of the Mupo's bottom section OD and/or the NewGen/PreGen damper rod ID? I'm curious if these will fit the 500 too (37mm Gen2 uses the same Emulator part number as the 250s, 36mm Gen1 has its own).
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February 8th, 2017, 11:03 AM | #16 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: john
Location: placerville
Join Date: Apr 2016 Motorcycle(s): ninja 300 Posts: 386
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Quote:
how you liking them ? |
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February 8th, 2017, 02:55 PM | #17 |
CCS Amateur #501
Name: Dave
Location: Iowa
Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): '09 250 SE 'Booger' Posts: 406
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Last time trackday I had was back in Sep and it was rather rainy. Not much of a test for my suspension as I was a big wimp and going slow. I'm making the jump to racing this season so my kickstand tab will be cut off and my new exhaust will allow for more lean so I should give it a better test as I get faster.
I did try to remove one of them thru the top of the fork tube but I just couldn't grab it well enough with the tools I have to get it to budge. So unfortunately I havent been able to measure the silly thing yet. |
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February 13th, 2017, 07:51 AM | #18 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
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^^ great. I am still quite interested to see how these things do. Lots of damper rod forks out there that could use some help .
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Keep it rubber side down and enjoy the ride Get healthy - Get Fit - Change Your Life Click Here Or PM Me To Find More - Advocare |
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February 15th, 2017, 03:32 PM | #19 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Chris
Location: Bristol, UK
Join Date: Feb 2016 Motorcycle(s): ZZR250, VFR800 Posts: 475
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It will fit, you just need a different O-ring ! Same goes for the outer seal, just get an O-ring of the right size & job done. I used Racetec emulators in my old CBF250, dropped straight on top of the damper rods, with thinner oil, no mods are required to the damper rods & the extra 20mm preload was perfect for me.
YMMV |
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February 26th, 2017, 05:20 PM | #20 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: john
Location: placerville
Join Date: Apr 2016 Motorcycle(s): ninja 300 Posts: 386
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are they adjustable?
im in the air about mupo or race tech. was hoping rebound on the mupos was adjustable and not thru oil weight. |
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February 26th, 2017, 07:02 PM | #21 |
CCS Amateur #501
Name: Dave
Location: Iowa
Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): '09 250 SE 'Booger' Posts: 406
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Mupo is not adjustable, short of disassembling it and altering the shim stack. If you are that talented with fork internals, you'd probably just go for cartridges is my guess.
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February 27th, 2017, 07:07 AM | #22 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: john
Location: placerville
Join Date: Apr 2016 Motorcycle(s): ninja 300 Posts: 386
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March 13th, 2017, 04:40 PM | #23 |
EX500 full of EX250 parts
Name: Bill
Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold) Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Aug '15
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FYI, the Ricor Intiminators are adjustable. They sell a tool to help disassemble the unit, and packs of alternate shims. You only get the shim stack on compression though, rebound is still fixed orifice like stock.
If you like to tinker with this stuff, it could be a cheaper way to get a fairly tweaked suspension, without as much of the cost/modification involved in a full cartridge swap.
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*** Unregistered, I'm not your mom and I'm not paying for your parts, so do whatever you want with your own bike. *** |
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