Bicycles!

[Brother Michigan]

Originally Posted by "A"

So you are a scientist and know the scientific method, but still fail to answer my questions in previous post.

You can collect all the data in the world with scientific method, but still useless if you don't know what specific goals you are trying to achieve or no parameters specified to collect the data.

You don't need anecdotes, then specify what you need?
Scientific method is just a method; not telling anyone what what you are looking for as answer.

[alex.s]

that's the church method. find the answer you want, and then only look at the evidence that supports that conclusion.

[alex.s]

anyway, what you said about benefits of certain properties being better suited to certain parts of the bike and other properties being better suited for others... you're absolutely right. which is why a composite is infinitely better than basically anything else. you can control what properties the material takes on. you can control in which orientation you want flexibility vs strength. you can use different epoxies or mix in different additives to achieve different material properties. that's not a thing for other mono-materials. unless you are a foundry that produces your own metal mixtures (hint- no frame builder does this), CF is the only method to actually achieve these changes. the only way to achieve such a thing with non-composites is structurally. literally making parts thicker or thinner. which isn't an easy thing to do. you wind up making these stupid compromises like butted tubes which have their own host of issues that have to be overcome. these days what does your average frame builder do? they buy pre-butted tubes. they don't take the risk of ****ing it up. because they WILL **** it up.

are there other issues with cf layup? absolutely. but the potential "best" in a composite is far better than what can be done with a single material. why else do you think they are all carbon now?

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Apex

Tempting.

I do already have an X-4 rear in my tool box, I'd just need to find a shifter.

Maybe an X-7? I'm thinking cheap though, since it only really sees trips to the store and shorter rides. The index shifting just isn't working for me anymore. lol

There's a for sale group I'm a part of on Facebook. Some dude in the Dallas area had a lightly used M8000 XT shifter and dérailleur on sale for $100. Occasionally good deals like that pop up. You might do well to check into some of those groups.

[alex.s]

https://giant.gfycat.com/SeveralMintyAdouri.webm

[choneofakind]

Dat. Deflection.

["A"]

Originally Posted by alex.s

that's the church method. find the answer you want, and then only look at the evidence that supports that conclusion.

Similar to your baseless claims below?

Originally Posted by alex.s

but the potential "best" in a composite is far better than what can be done with a single material. why else do you think they are all carbon now?

Talk about claims without evidence: "best" for what?
"they are all carbon now", just what do you refer as "they"?
where are your evidence?

BTW process of "butted tubes" have been around longer that you've been alive.
How many butted tubed frame have you seen fail vs carbon?

Originally Posted by alex.s

https://giant.gfycat.com/SeveralMintyAdouri.webm

Why don't you hook up a powermeter to that and get a carbon frame to repeat the process? Then we can actually have a scientific comparison.

[alex.s]

are you seriously this dense?

[alex.s]

i guess i'll play along.

Originally Posted by "A"

Talk about claims without evidence: "best" for what?

best structural integrity and best ability to handle the forces for which they are designed to handle, while coming in at the lowest possible weight.

Originally Posted by "A"

"they are all carbon now", just what do you refer as "they"?
where are your evidence?

find me a non-carbon bike in the giro d'italia. oh right, you can't. because they are all carbon.

Originally Posted by "A"

BTW process of "butted tubes" have been around longer that you've been alive.
How many butted tubed frame have you seen fail vs carbon?

you clearly have no idea what my point is. but the fact that even you recognize how old the technology is should tell you something.

Originally Posted by "A"

Why don't you hook up a powermeter to that and get a carbon frame to repeat the process? Then we can actually have a scientific comparison.

do you even own a power meter? have you ever trained with power? know what erg mode is?

["A"]

Originally Posted by alex.s

are you seriously this dense?

Scientific method require specifics.. without the specifics the science can not stand.

Originally Posted by alex.s

best structural integrity and best ability to handle the forces for which they are designed to handle, while coming in at the lowest possible weight.

For what application? frame, fork, stem, handlebar? specifics.. as in the scientific method.

Originally Posted by alex.s

find me a non-carbon bike in the giro d'italia. oh right, you can't. because they are all carbon.

You didn't specify year Giro... fail.

Originally Posted by alex.s

you clearly have no idea what my point is. but the fact that even you recognize how old the technology is should tell you something.

I don't need to have an idea, you fail to provide parameters for your pointless questions and fail to answer any of my questions from previous post.

My point is, if you have ridden a carbon frame for over 16 years (as my titanium frame) and it still rides the same as the day you bought it, that would show that carbon frame are as durable as titanium frame.
Pretty simple, no?

Originally Posted by alex.s

do you even own a power meter? have you ever trained with power? know what erg mode is?

I never said I own one, you were the one asking about power output and yet can't provide evidence to support a decent comparison for carbon frame vs others.

[SLOWn60]

Meanwhile outside:

[Triple Jim]

Very nice, Bill. I had a very pleasant ride on my Litespeed today as I do daily, but today the air was in the low 70s and the humidity was low, so it was extra good

Shuswap Lake looks huge, from what I just read about it. I live on the John H. Kerr Reservoir in NC, and have recently started occasionally substituting an hour or so of rowing instead of my daily bike ride. Kerr is huge too, but a very different shape.

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

Very nice, Bill. I had a very pleasant ride on my Litespeed today as I do daily, but today the air was in the low 70s and the humidity was low, so it was extra good

Shuswap Lake looks huge, from what I just read about it. I live on the John H. Kerr Reservoir in NC, and have recently started occasionally substituting an hour or so of rowing instead of my daily bike ride. Kerr is huge too, but a very different shape.

Rowing is fantastic exercise! I used to row #7 in heavy 8's and #3 in quads. I'm seriously considering buying a scull for mixing up the routine too! Shuswap Lake is huge! There are thousands of boats here in the summer but so spread out it still seems uncrowded!

[Triple Jim]

That sounds very nice. Kerr Lake is owned by the Army Corp of Engineers, and most private property starts about 20' above the mean water level, so the lake is surrounded by trees for most of the shoreline. Also, the level varies quite a bit, requiring floating piers, so it's not as popular as the next lake downstream, Lake Gaston. It gets busy here on summer weekends, but weekdays are pretty calm, and once school starts in the late summer, it's very quiet until school gets out the following spring.

I bought a used Little River Regatta this spring, and have been trying to develop decent technique. It seems to be the type used in open water racing, or at least very similar. I'm past trying to stay in the boat, and concentrate on things like hand position, not starting back and arm extension until about 70% leg extension, etc.. But with all the bike riding I do, I'm amazed at how hard and fast I have to row (scull) to get my heart rate up to where it gets when I'm climbing a hill on a bike.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by "A"

Scientific method require specifics.. without the specifics the science can not stand.



For what application? frame, fork, stem, handlebar? specifics.. as in the scientific method.



You didn't specify year Giro... fail.



I don't need to have an idea, you fail to provide parameters for your pointless questions and fail to answer any of my questions from previous post.

My point is, if you have ridden a carbon frame for over 16 years (as my titanium frame) and it still rides the same as the day you bought it, that would show that carbon frame are as durable as titanium frame.
Pretty simple, no?



I never said I own one, you were the one asking about power output and yet can't provide evidence to support a decent comparison for carbon frame vs others.

you are an idiot.

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

That sounds very nice. Kerr Lake is owned by the Army Corp of Engineers, and most private property starts about 20' above the mean water level, so the lake is surrounded by trees for most of the shoreline. Also, the level varies quite a bit, requiring floating piers, so it's not as popular as the next lake downstream, Lake Gaston. It gets busy here on summer weekends, but weekdays are pretty calm, and once school starts in the late summer, it's very quiet until school gets out the following spring.

I bought a used Little River Regatta this spring, and have been trying to develop decent technique. It seems to be the type used in open water racing, or at least very similar. I'm past trying to stay in the boat, and concentrate on things like hand position, not starting back and arm extension until about 70% leg extension, etc.. But with all the bike riding I do, I'm amazed at how hard and fast I have to row (scull) to get my heart rate up to where it gets when I'm climbing a hill on a bike.

That's a great looking shell, Jim! Looking at their website; it sounds as if it may be a little more forgiving if the wind kicks up a bit of chop, great choice!
I raced in the mid 70's so science & tech have probably changed since then (Ti & CF together boys!!! Lol!). Back then the technique we used was smooth, coordinated and full 100% extension of arms, back & legs throughout the power stroke and 100% flow on the recoil too! But no matter the style: just like motorcycling; the secret is smoooooth!!! Go slow and smooth to go fast! Clean, zero splash entry & exit with the oars. Sounds like a great summer ahead for you!!!

["A"]

Originally Posted by alex.s

you are an idiot.

Fail to debate with reason and intellect, now reduced to insult.
Maybe you should stick with riding than posting your nonsense in forums.

[Triple Jim]

Thanks Bill. I found it on Craigslist for $1,800 for the whole setup and after reading about the boat, decided it was a good opportunity, and bought it. It's about eight years old, but in very nice shape. Most teachers these days seem to be recommending that you use most of your leg stroke before getting the back and then arms into it. To me it makes a lot of sense, because I have to be careful with my back, and separating legs from back allows me to get a lot of power from my legs, and then use my back a little more carefully.

Funny you mentioned chop... today the local airports and private weather stations were reporting what the Intellicast and TV station weather reports were predicting... 10 mph wind. When I got out there on the lake, it kicked up and made some serious whitecaps. I estimate it was more like a steady 20 mph, and I got a couple gusts that picked up the blade of an oar on the backstroke and startled me. I stayed in the narrow end of the creek to avoid the big chop. I have a couple miles of the narrow part, so it worked out fine. I didn't have any trouble with balance, but wonder what the calm water shells would be like in those conditions.

[Apex]

Hmmmm...

I was doing some hard thinking recently.

I have several bikes in my garage.
Trek 1.5
Trek Transport
Trek 850
Trek HiFi 29-er
Trek 820 (for others)
Trek Lexa (was for my wife but hasn't used it since hurting her wrist)
Specialized Globe Comfort bike (wife's baby)
Trek Girls MTB (for when my little one gets older)

So, I have all of these, and the Lexa and 820 are not being used at all. Selling those will free up two spots in the garage. I'm sure I can get about 600-700 for these two. If I sell my HiFi I can get about 700 for that. That would get me a solid hard tail. Would that be worth it over the HiFi? I like the dual suspension, and we do have some rooty courses here, but still, wouldn't it be better to just go hardtail and have an overall lighter bike?

Thoughts?

I like the ergos of the MTB over the roadie, plus the ability to hop on a trail, but I also want to make sensible decisions. The hard tail would require less maintenance and be just all around easier. But I already own the FS rig, so I could technically just keep it and sell off the bikes that aren't being used.

Whatcha think pedaling peeps?




Side note, the 850 is for local use and holding the trailer my little one rides in. I'm not so worried about this bike because it looks rough, doubt anyone would want it.
Keeping the Transport because once the little one learns to ride, I'll use that for local store runs due to the capacity (disc brakes too).
The 850 may be retired then, not sure yet, I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

[Triple Jim]

Keep the dual suspension. Sell the bikes you don't ride and you'll figure out what to use the money for.

[CaliGrrl]

Sell the bikes you don't use.

My MTB is a hardtail and I love it. I've never used a full suspension but if your trails aren't too rough, I don't think a switch to a hardtail would be a big deal.

[choneofakind]

Werd. Sell the bikes you don't use.

FYI: gravel bikes look awesome. Build one up with flat bars.

[MrAtom]

It's so weird riding in the city and most people not returning a smile or friendly wave like they do on a trail or like most motorcyclists do. People with really cool bikes are usually friendly if you give 'em a compliment, though. It's neat to see people keeping all original GT BMX's on the road.

[Apex]

I finally got a small torque wrench. At least I can now service my suspension linkage on the full suspension rig.

Before I had to drop it off at the shop because I didn't have the tool small enough to torque them back to spec, now I do. So I am golden now. I hope to tear into the rear suspension, lubricated the linkages, and get the MTB back on the road. I like the roadie, I really do, but I don't like riding it unless time/speed is an issue. I prefer my MTB. Popping off the trail, or hopping up a curb is so much easier on the MTB. lol

I thought about it, and decided to not sell the old Trek 820. I'm going to keep it for parts. I may get $100 for the bike. The Trek 850 may need a wheel rebuild, or just new wheels. The ones on the 820 are solid, so I may just throw those on the 850. Next item on my bike shop list to purchase, a truing stand.

[Brother Michigan]

Those little torque wrenches can be expensive!

["A"]

Over the years I've been associated with local bike shops, they have plenty of old/parts bikes that either customers no longer want or just left behind from bikes with old parts. Usually the bike shop will collect enough of them and donate them to local bicycle Co-OPs, Boy&Girls club or Youth Groups that may offer basic bicycle mechanic as a class.

I have volunteered and donated my own bicycles to Neighborhood Bike Works that provide work space, and sources for inner city folks to get free bikes when they are in need, often times when they get their driver's license revoked. With the donated bicycles, NBW have annual bike sale that sell bicycles for cheap and make up for their operating costs.

If you have bicycles that are just collecting dust or just no longer cost effective to fix up/update; organizations like NBW in your local area might be an destination for those.

[DannoXYZ]

That's awesome! I used to volunteer at the UCSB Bike Co-op with similar purposes. We cobble together complete bikes from scrap parts from bike-shops, police repos, dredged from lagoon, etc. Students just need basic transportation and they can buy one of our bikes for less than $50. I actually used one to win a cat-3 crit for marketing purposes! Also offer classes on basic maintenance. We had one on framebuilding for fun!

["A"]

In SF CA, I've worked with Bike Kitchen years ago to learn about their operation and implement something similar in Philly area.

[Apex]

Originally Posted by Brother Michigan

Those little torque wrenches can be expensive!

Indeed!

Originally Posted by "A"

Over the years I've been associated with local bike shops, they have plenty of old/parts bikes that either customers no longer want or just left behind from bikes with old parts. Usually the bike shop will collect enough of them and donate them to local bicycle Co-OPs, Boy&Girls club or Youth Groups that may offer basic bicycle mechanic as a class.

I have volunteered and donated my own bicycles to Neighborhood Bike Works that provide work space, and sources for inner city folks to get free bikes when they are in need, often times when they get their driver's license revoked. With the donated bicycles, NBW have annual bike sale that sell bicycles for cheap and make up for their operating costs.

If you have bicycles that are just collecting dust or just no longer cost effective to fix up/update; organizations like NBW in your local area might be an destination for those.

I may look into that and see if there is anything around here.

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

It's so weird riding in the city and most people not returning a smile or friendly wave like they do on a trail or like most motorcyclists do. People with really cool bikes are usually friendly if you give 'em a compliment, though. It's neat to see people keeping all original GT BMX's on the road.

I've noticed that in the DC area. The guys on expensive bikes seem to consider themselves too elite to bother waving at anyone not wearing their club jerseys. When I lived there in the '70s and was into racing and touring, riders were generally much friendlier. Out here in very rural NC, almost all riders of bicycles and motorcycles will return a wave when I'm on my bicycle.

[choneofakind]

"Back in my day, people respected their elders and men had hair on their chests"...

Memories are coated in a golden haze.

[SLOWn60]

Sunny and plus 30 today and for the next 3 days!

["A"]

Likely another lifetime frame build for $500.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by "A"

Likely another lifetime frame build for $500.

Nice. What is it?

["A"]

It's a Lynskey titanium, disc brake road frame, plan on building a set of strong wheels, no more rubbing brake pads against the rims when wheels are out of true.

[choneofakind]

R370?

[Apex]

Very nice!

[choneofakind]

Got out for a nice ride today. I finally got smart with my route planning so I was riding home with a tail wind. 50 miles of sunshine and alone time in the corn fields. I stopped by a local state park for a pitstop and snack break and snagged a picture.



Who else has been out on a good ride recently?

[Triple Jim]

I do 20 miles every day, except for once or twice a week when I'm out on the lake sculling.

[SLOWn60]

I've been on the rollers each morning for the past week (I have a Marinoni Pista) getting ready for the Tour de France! I'm curious what distance I will cover compared to the big boys! Lol