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Old June 22nd, 2019, 05:39 PM   #1
MichaelS214
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Lift front end

Hi all - did a search and didn't really want to hijack old threads. But I'm seeking advice on how to lift the front end to unload pressure on the suspension. Im basically planning to do a fork seal clean on the left side - as I notice a really minor leak after riding. Not enough to even drip down the side unless I leave it for a couple of days without wiping it.

I saw a few threads that show a combo of rear stand and jack on the headers, as well as the ladder and ratchet strap combo. I really wanted to build one of those DIY type block lifts - but it seems there's nowhere on the bike for it to evenly sit.

So what's the best way to do this without a hoist?

Thanks in advance!
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Old June 22nd, 2019, 06:28 PM   #2
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Black Widow makes a pin type lift designed for front end use via the lower triple. Its about $80-90 and is equipped with 5 or 6? multiple sized pins for various bikes. I consider it an invaluable tool, a keeper.

Alone, I can safely lift the subject bike via front end, no help.
And once up, it is stable, safe and secure for short or longer term work. You can supplement it using a rear stand as well....both wheels up simultaneous for service....dual wheel pulls for tires, for example.

IMHO the financial investment worth it for a tool with an indefinite life, no matter what your stable holds, now and future.
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Old June 22nd, 2019, 06:55 PM   #3
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Yeah, get a front stand with a pin. Use a rear stand too, and first, or you might lose it.
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Old June 22nd, 2019, 07:29 PM   #4
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I use ratchet straps hanging from loop in ceiling and loop ratcheting straps through upper triple-T.
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Old June 22nd, 2019, 08:13 PM   #5
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Danno's method should work fine. I just put the bike on its center stand and jack gently under the front of the engine. You have to be careful not to knock it off the jack though, so hanging from the ceiling could be better.
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Old June 22nd, 2019, 08:33 PM   #6
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Wow thanks so much everybody.

I just thought of an idea as well - after Danno mentioned the loops in the ceiling. We have a whole pulley system in the garage, connected to a few beams - which was once used to store kayaks. It may just work! It's basically 4 pulleys in a rectangular orientation, then at the other end of the garage is another pulley where you actually do the pulling. I should do some tests and see if it would work. The weight would be dispersed over 4 hooks to lighten the load on each one. And I believe all 4 hooks are screwed into the frame (through the ceiling drywall type material). I'll try and get some pics posted soon and get your opinions.
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Old June 22nd, 2019, 09:28 PM   #7
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One hook should be fine if it's 5mm or thicker going at least 30mm into 2x4 on edge. Most ceiling beams are 2x6 or even 2x8. I just re-used a loop I put in garage to hold my wife's hammock when she wanted to study while I work on projects. I used two of those loops to pull engine from my track car every couple of years for rebuilding.

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Old June 23rd, 2019, 05:05 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
I used two of those loops to pull engine from my track car every couple of years for rebuilding.
I can't believe I never thought to use ceiling joists for bearing a lifting load like that. Brilliant. *starts thinking of ideas for a psuedo overhead crane system*
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Old June 23rd, 2019, 06:35 AM   #9
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i would go front and rear stand, you need bolth,the only time i use the ceiling joist method is when im pulling off the tripples
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Old June 23rd, 2019, 09:34 AM   #10
MichaelS214
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Yea - not 100% sure on the pulley system in the garage anymore lol. I might use them as an additional stabilizer - and use a front stand to start. I never had a stand before because the other bikes I owned had center stands, so I actually thought that the only front stands were one's that held at the fork area (thus not unloading the suspension). But after searching, I see there's front stands that hold at the triple (right?).
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Old June 23rd, 2019, 10:07 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelS214 View Post
Yea - not 100% sure on the pulley system in the garage anymore lol. I might use them as an additional stabilizer - and use a front stand to start. I never had a stand before because the other bikes I owned had center stands, so I actually thought that the only front stands were one's that held at the fork area (thus not unloading the suspension). But after searching, I see there's front stands that hold at the triple (right?).
Yep, here is an example of a top of the line front stand that lifts from the triple. That particular one will outlast your bike, and probably you too. You can (and must) get the appropriately sized pin for your bike, they're interchangeable on the stand.
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Old June 23rd, 2019, 11:12 AM   #12
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Black widow brand includes 5 pin sizes. If so inclined, you can measure your triple and confirm prior to purchase which included size will work on yours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT_9BYFJ1Kc
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Old June 23rd, 2019, 03:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelS214 View Post
Yea - not 100% sure on the pulley system in the garage anymore lol. I might use them as an additional stabilizer -
No stabilizing needed because CoG of object is well below hanging point (look at engine photo). When you have CoG above support, it can topple off sideways from stand (seen this lots at track). If you've ever tried to remove and install engine by placing it on top of floor-jack, you'll know how treacherous that is; hanging is so much safer and more stable. I use two loops on different beams for engine so only swinging movement is fore-aft.

You can knock gallon jug of water off table if you place it on top. But if you hang it below table, it won’t ever fall off. You can even kick it so hard that jug ruptures, but it will still be hanging and won’t fall off.

In less time than it took to write that, I was able to hang my bike’s front end (5 flips of strap ratchet handle). To lower, I lean bike towards my hip on kickstand side and unlock strap. Can also use pulley reduction system for more controlled movement.

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Old June 23rd, 2019, 03:41 PM   #14
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Yea makes sense. What I meant was putting the bike on a front triple type stand - but using the pulley system as an additional support, one on each side of the bike since each side would basically pull up and slightly away from the bike. It definitely wouldn't go anywhere. It would actually be a good way to get the bike upright before putting it up on the front stand with no helper.
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Old June 23rd, 2019, 03:55 PM   #15
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If you put bike on front triple stand, you must have it on rear stand first. Or else it'll topple sideways and fall over. Seen this plenty at track as well. There's also trick to getting front pin in properly so it doesn't crush fairing.

Yeah, you can pull rear-end sideways in opposite directions, but make sure you do it in stages. Lift front end 1", then tighten lateral pulley straps. Then lift front-end another 1", then tighten lateral straps. Then lift front 1", tighten lateral, etc. Otherwise, there's enough slack in lateral straps that'll allows bike to fall sideways if you lift front end all at once.
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Old June 23rd, 2019, 03:59 PM   #16
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Sounds good. I'll probably pick up a front stand and test out that method. I'll post a pic on this thread when it happens.
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Old June 23rd, 2019, 05:49 PM   #17
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Might as well replace fork seals while you're there. Not sure if cleaning them would do much for sealing. Use PVC plumbing pipe to install cleanly. I've seen people pound them in with screwdrivers, then write caustic reviews about how they leaked!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WNDWEQ0/
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Old June 24th, 2019, 12:14 PM   #18
MichaelS214
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Might as well replace fork seals while you're there. Not sure if cleaning them would do much for sealing. Use PVC plumbing pipe to install cleanly. I've seen people pound them in with screwdrivers, then write caustic reviews about how they leaked!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WNDWEQ0/
I was thinking of doing so - but here's the situation. I planned on just lifting the front end to use one of those "seal mate" type products to quickly do a clean on the left side. I figure that would take no time at all compared to pulling the whole thing and replacing the seal and cover.

The reason is because there are some rust spots a little higher on the fork - which im curious if they are causing the slight seeping of oil. There was one tiny little rust spot just above the cover which I lightly sanded with 1500 grit. It seems to leak a little less than before now. If the cleaning doesn't solve the issue completely, then I'll put in the work to change the seal and cover.

My logic is based on the idea that using the seal mate cleaning tool would be a pretty quick test, while changing the seal and cover would take a lot longer. I may be wrong since I've never done it myself - but my impression is that it's a bigger job vs. a quicker test.

Thanks for taking the time to discuss!
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Old July 22nd, 2019, 02:00 PM   #19
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@MichaelS214 any updates on this? Did cleaning seals stop leaking?
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Old July 22nd, 2019, 02:09 PM   #20
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@MichaelS214 any updates on this? Did cleaning seals stop leaking?
Hey!

I never got to that job yet, but have put thought into it. I decided to source some forks (at least tubes) that don't have scratches, rust, pitting, etc. Instead of just cleaning it or replacing the seals.

I would rather get in there once, than trial and error and having to keep messing around with it.

Funny you mention this - because literally 2 hours ago I purchased one fork on ebay. It was a good deal. Just a single right fork - straight, clean and not leaking for $38.

Hopefully I can find another one at a decent price soon. For now, I lose just a little bit of oil on each side with every ride.
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Old July 22nd, 2019, 02:11 PM   #21
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Another benefit of hanging bike is it leaves suspension completely free. So you can remove triple-Ts, forks, wheels, shock, swingarm, etc. Since it’s super stable, you can do stupid things like... I don’t know... rushing to answer phone and running into bike! Not gonna topple it off like on lifts.

Here’s swapping race suspension tidbits to street-bike from race-bike. Also rebuilding forks, replacing seals and fluid, adjusting damping and preload.

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Old July 29th, 2019, 10:11 AM   #22
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I was able to find a clean, straight, and non leaking left fork. Hopefully these 2 I ordered are as described and I just need to swap them in.

I will probably use a combination of rear stand, pulley system in my garage, and a small hydraulic jack. Just to disperse the weight a bit more.
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Old August 2nd, 2019, 09:00 AM   #23
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So I got both forks in - right side was a steal as it's clean, straight, and not leaking (at 38 bucks shipped!). Left fork was a little more disappointing with a few tiny rust spots in the upper area of travel (at 70 bucks!). But it doesn't leak and its a lot cleaner than what's on there currently.

Hopefully I will swap them this weekend. I think I got all bases covered with how to lift it and how to remove the old forks. One question though - how do you go about making sure the forks are installed into both upper and lower clamps at the right spots (that wording may not be the best).

I do have a manual and have searched all over forums, YouTube, and other online searches. Can't really find anything besides how to remove and install them - nobody says much about how to make sure they are clamped in the right place (at the top clamp especially).

Any advice, resources, etc? Is it just going to be obvious when I'm actually doing it?

Thanks.
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Old August 2nd, 2019, 09:23 AM   #24
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Fork should stick out top triple-clamp about 12.003mm.
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Old August 3rd, 2019, 10:06 AM   #25
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Fork should stick out top triple-clamp about 12.003mm.
Thanks - that's precise! Lol.
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Old August 3rd, 2019, 11:13 AM   #26
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Fork should stick out top triple-clamp about 12.003mm.
Would a caliper be best to measure this, or any ruler with mm should work?
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Old August 3rd, 2019, 02:45 PM   #27
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Ruler’s fine.

What I do is tighten handlebars to top of triple-T. Then slide forks up until they stop moving. Ends up at about 15mm, which is fine. Not gonna notice difference.
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Old August 3rd, 2019, 02:52 PM   #28
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Ruler’s fine.

What I do is tighten handlebars to top of triple-T. Then slide forks up until they stop moving. Ends up at about 15mm, which is fine. Not gonna notice difference.
Nice! That sounds simple! I actually just got everything off the bike and about to get the new forks on. Went to some stores earlier and they didn't just have a simple caliper. So I said F it, im gonna do one side at a time. I was able to use a small hydraulic jack to get the from wheel just so slightly spinning with some pushing - only took a couple of small pumps on the jack. My plan was to take one fork off, put the other one on, then put the wheel on and slide the axle through, then clamp the fork down. Then repeat for the other fork.

I'll see how that goes - otherwise I'll do your suggested method.

Thanks so much - you're the man!
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Old August 3rd, 2019, 06:35 PM   #29
MichaelS214
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Went from these junkers - rusty and leaky:


To some new/used shiny, non leakers:


Thanks for the tips!!
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