Electronic Flasher Issue

95XL · July 28th, 2012, 02:02 PM

So, as some of you might know, I've already integrated the stock taillights on my GF's 250, with incandescent (normal) bulbs. I just replaced the front turn signals with some cheepy e-bay LED's, and of course after installing them it suffered from "hyper" flash. So I bought an electronic flasher made for the 250 from Dennis Kirk. I just installed it and the turn signal indicator on the dash doesn't work with either direction. Anybody ever run into this problem? I'm going to get sick of reminding my gf her blinkers are on if I can't get this fixed, thanks!

95XL · July 29th, 2012, 06:04 AM

Ok, I just browsed through the Wiki, and there's a lot in there about installing diodes, but it was all for the 08+ bikes. Is that relevent to the older bikes?

Also, it said that if you needed diodes, all 4 blinkers would blink no matter what direction you turned on, my gf's blinks in the correct direction, just the light on the dash doesn't turn on, is this caused by the same thing?

**Nevermind, I just went out and double checked and the two front LED's blink no matter what direction is turned on, but the rears blink the way they're supposed to, so I guess I've answered my last question.

95XL · July 29th, 2012, 12:37 PM

I'm back again, I just installed the diodes out by the blinkers (there was one diagram that showed this in the wiki), it seemed the easiest so i went with it. And i still have the same problem, with just the key on, they work the way they're supposed to, start it and the opposite side lights, but barely. But, the dash light still doesn't work. I installed the diodes only in front of the LED's I left the rear alone.

So, does this mean i have to tear the dash out and install them, or could i just install them in front of the rear lights also? It'd be real helpful if someone could chime in on this. Thanks.

folky15 · July 29th, 2012, 12:52 PM

I prob wont be much help but I just felt bad that youve been conversing here w/ yourself

I dont think the diodes will help the indicator, but I think I read somewhere that certain LED turn signals can draw such low current that the indicator light malfunctions. Not 100% sure on that, but maybe some resistors in line w/ the LED's would help?

And youre sure the indicator bulb isn't blown, and the fuse is still good?

FrugalNinja250 · July 29th, 2012, 06:26 PM

The problem lies with how the dash indicator is wired, and yes, it's the same on the newgens as well. Basically, what Kawasaki did was to connect a small low-wattage bulb directly across the positive wire for both sides of the turn signal circuit. Whichever side is on at any given moment, the power goes from that side through the dash bulb to the other side which is off. However, the other side's bulbs are still connected to ground, and the large filaments in the off-side's bulbs will provide enough of a ground for the dash bulb. The dash bulb itself, being so small, won't flow enough current to actually light up the large bulb filaments on the off-side.

The solution is to modify the wiring at the dash bulb using a pair of diodes. What you do is you cut the two wires at the bulb socket, connect each wire to a diode with the diodes electrically oriented the same such that current can flow through the diodes, and connect both diodes to just one of the bulb socket wires. The other bulb socket wire needs to be connected to ground. Now, no matter which turn signal side is active, current cannot backfeed to the off-side and can only flow through the bulb to ground.

At this point the turn signal sides are completely isolated, and any combination of LED bulbs and electronic flasher will work just fine.

95XL · July 30th, 2012, 01:28 PM

ah, thanks for the help, and thanks for not letting me sit here and talk to myself! lol. So, it looks like I've got some wrenching to do... time to tear the dash out...

Monkeytofu · August 1st, 2012, 04:04 PM

This may be a late response, but why not just let them hyper flash? I don't see why people want to get rid of the effect. All my biker friends point out that my lights are hyper flashing when we do group rides or talk about lighting on our bikes. I take that as them noticing my turn signals, which is good.

choneofakind · August 1st, 2012, 06:28 PM

Hyperflash is not legal. There's a specified rate of flashing that your turn signals need to operate within.
Posted via Mobile Device

Monkeytofu · August 1st, 2012, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Hyperflash is not legal. There's a specified rate of flashing that your turn signals need to operate within.
Posted via Mobile Device

How fast do the stock ones flash? According to the wikipedia article, which links to the DOT's laws, it needs to be 60-120 flashes per minute.

choneofakind · August 1st, 2012, 06:59 PM

I haven't had the stock ones for quite some time, so idk, but they're definitely in that range or else they wouldn't be allowed on the roads. 60-120 is a huge range. Hyper flash is likely pushing 3 times a second
Posted via Mobile Device

Monkeytofu · August 1st, 2012, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I haven't had the stock ones for quite some time, so idk, but they're definitely in that range or else they wouldn't be allowed on the roads. 60-120 is a huge range. Hyper flash is likely pushing 3 times a second
Posted via Mobile Device

I'll record them for a second or two and see how much they flash.

Monkeytofu · August 1st, 2012, 07:10 PM

It seems to be in between 2 and 3 so I gues it'd probably be best assume they were illegal.

July 28th, 2012, 02:02 PM	#1
95XL ninjette.org member Name: Joe Location: Fulton, NY Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): '04 Yamaha FZ-1, '05 Ninja 250 Posts: 30	Electronic Flasher Issue So, as some of you might know, I've already integrated the stock taillights on my GF's 250, with incandescent (normal) bulbs. I just replaced the front turn signals with some cheepy e-bay LED's, and of course after installing them it suffered from "hyper" flash. So I bought an electronic flasher made for the 250 from Dennis Kirk. I just installed it and the turn signal indicator on the dash doesn't work with either direction. Anybody ever run into this problem? I'm going to get sick of reminding my gf her blinkers are on if I can't get this fixed, thanks! __________________________________________________ "Live Fast, Die Young"

July 29th, 2012, 06:04 AM	#2
95XL ninjette.org member Name: Joe Location: Fulton, NY Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): '04 Yamaha FZ-1, '05 Ninja 250 Posts: 30	Ok, I just browsed through the Wiki, and there's a lot in there about installing diodes, but it was all for the 08+ bikes. Is that relevent to the older bikes? Also, it said that if you needed diodes, all 4 blinkers would blink no matter what direction you turned on, my gf's blinks in the correct direction, just the light on the dash doesn't turn on, is this caused by the same thing? Nevermind, I just went out and double checked and the two front LED's blink no matter what direction is turned on, but the rears blink the way they're supposed to, so I guess I've answered my last question. __________________________________________________ "Live Fast, Die Young"**

July 29th, 2012, 12:37 PM	#3
95XL ninjette.org member Name: Joe Location: Fulton, NY Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): '04 Yamaha FZ-1, '05 Ninja 250 Posts: 30	I'm back again, I just installed the diodes out by the blinkers (there was one diagram that showed this in the wiki), it seemed the easiest so i went with it. And i still have the same problem, with just the key on, they work the way they're supposed to, start it and the opposite side lights, but barely. But, the dash light still doesn't work. I installed the diodes only in front of the LED's I left the rear alone. So, does this mean i have to tear the dash out and install them, or could i just install them in front of the rear lights also? It'd be real helpful if someone could chime in on this. Thanks. __________________________________________________ "Live Fast, Die Young"

July 29th, 2012, 12:52 PM	#4
folky15 ninjette.org member Name: Jason Location: Chicago Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250R Posts: 156	I prob wont be much help but I just felt bad that youve been conversing here w/ yourself I dont think the diodes will help the indicator, but I think I read somewhere that certain LED turn signals can draw such low current that the indicator light malfunctions. Not 100% sure on that, but maybe some resistors in line w/ the LED's would help? And youre sure the indicator bulb isn't blown, and the fuse is still good? __________________________________________________ Done: Fender Eliminator Kit, Shogun frame sliders, Rim Tape, Freeway Blaster horn, Protons, Rear LEDs, Brake Modulator Planned: Comp Werkes Slip-on, Snorkel Delete, Shimmed Needles

July 30th, 2012, 01:28 PM	#6
95XL ninjette.org member Name: Joe Location: Fulton, NY Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): '04 Yamaha FZ-1, '05 Ninja 250 Posts: 30	ah, thanks for the help, and thanks for not letting me sit here and talk to myself! lol. So, it looks like I've got some wrenching to do... time to tear the dash out... __________________________________________________ "Live Fast, Die Young"

July 29th, 2012, 06:26 PM	#5
FrugalNinja250 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Frugal Location: Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW) Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): Several Posts: A lot.	The problem lies with how the dash indicator is wired, and yes, it's the same on the newgens as well. Basically, what Kawasaki did was to connect a small low-wattage bulb directly across the positive wire for both sides of the turn signal circuit. Whichever side is on at any given moment, the power goes from that side through the dash bulb to the other side which is off. However, the other side's bulbs are still connected to ground, and the large filaments in the off-side's bulbs will provide enough of a ground for the dash bulb. The dash bulb itself, being so small, won't flow enough current to actually light up the large bulb filaments on the off-side. The solution is to modify the wiring at the dash bulb using a pair of diodes. What you do is you cut the two wires at the bulb socket, connect each wire to a diode with the diodes electrically oriented the same such that current can flow through the diodes, and connect both diodes to just one of the bulb socket wires. The other bulb socket wire needs to be connected to ground. Now, no matter which turn signal side is active, current cannot backfeed to the off-side and can only flow through the bulb to ground. At this point the turn signal sides are completely isolated, and any combination of LED bulbs and electronic flasher will work just fine.

August 1st, 2012, 04:04 PM	#7
Monkeytofu I told you bro Name: Noor Location: Austin, Texas Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1996 Ninja 250r Posts: 680	This may be a late response, but why not just let them hyper flash? I don't see why people want to get rid of the effect. All my biker friends point out that my lights are hyper flashing when we do group rides or talk about lighting on our bikes. I take that as them noticing my turn signals, which is good.

August 1st, 2012, 06:28 PM	#8
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Hyperflash is not legal. There's a specified rate of flashing that your turn signals need to operate within. Posted via Mobile Device

August 1st, 2012, 06:59 PM	#10
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	I haven't had the stock ones for quite some time, so idk, but they're definitely in that range or else they wouldn't be allowed on the roads. 60-120 is a huge range. Hyper flash is likely pushing 3 times a second Posted via Mobile Device

August 1st, 2012, 07:10 PM	#12
Monkeytofu I told you bro Name: Noor Location: Austin, Texas Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1996 Ninja 250r Posts: 680	It seems to be in between 2 and 3 so I gues it'd probably be best assume they were illegal.

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