proper downshifting?

[heylookitsfranco]

:EDIT: Oops, sorry Alex!, should've put this on the Riding Skills page. is there a way i can move it myself without bothering you? lol


I've had my bike for just about 2 weeks now and I'm still learning how to ride properly... I was wondering if it's bad for the bike when you downshift and just let the clutch out (slowly, naturally) instead of blipping the throttle? I might be (probably am) wrong, but I feel like it's easier to slow the bike down without adding anymore throttle and letting the engine stop the bike?

through newbtacular trial and error, I've discovered that merely letting the clutch out at 25 mph in 1st gear is a BAD idea. i pulled that clutch right back in hehe.

[Momaru]

I'd suspect it'll accelerate your clutch friction plate wear. The question is how much vs rev-matching given the ninjette's practically a paperweight on wheels.

[backinthesaddleagain]

yeah dropping the clutch at 25mph in first is a bit much. plus you could cause the rear tire to kick out a bit. to be honest i don't do alot of blipping, but rahter gently release the clutch and then try to get rpm's back.

[kkim]

I never downshift the bike into first except when it's at a stop/just before rolling to a stop.

you can do a lot of engine damage if you spin the engine too fast by downshifting too early into an inappropriate gear. 25 in first is waaay to fast for first.

use both your brakes and engine to help slow the bike. both your brakes and engine will thank you.

think of the clutch as a gentle way to engage gears. imagine it as a variable pillow between the metal to metal blows the gears encounter when you shift.

[Alex]

/moved to riding skills

[bob706]

Originally Posted by heylookitsfranco;221769a

through newbtacular trial and error, I've discovered that merely letting the clutch out at 25 mph in 1st gear is a BAD idea

Done that one too. That is where a gear indicator would be priceless

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by heylookitsfranco

:EDIT: Oops, sorry Alex!, should've put this on the Riding Skills page. is there a way i can move it myself without bothering you? lol


I was wondering if it's bad for the bike when you downshift and just let the clutch out (slowly, naturally) instead of blipping the throttle?

It's fine to be a non-blipper I usually blip only when I have gone down at least two gears without clutch engagement between (like when the turn ahead is a 3rd gear turn and I'm running 5th gear) or when I blip "just to blip."

[backinthesaddleagain]

Do HD riders blip? I think they over blip, more like a blap. Every freaking thing results in a blip of the throttle, downshifting, idling, using the turnsignals, seeing a fellow HD rider.

[Blackwidow]

i engine brake alllll the time. But I don't downshift more than one gear at a time. Lets say i'm coming to a red light, I down shift lets say from 4th gear to 3rd, I listen to the engine rawr then quiet down, then I shift again to 2nd, i let the engine do its thing, then I hold the clutch in and if I need to I'll drop it down to first and come to a complete stop, but usually, if i'm lucky, by that time the light turns green and I don't have to drop down to first, I just let roll the throttle on second and off I go.

[heylookitsfranco]

ahh, good to know I'm not doing it completely wrong hehe. I guess i just have to keep practicing using the brake clutch and shifter simultaneously. i was just thinking that by engine braking most of the time, i could reduce the amount of wear on my brake pads, but i suppose I'd wear down the clutch plates instead...
thanks for the replies, everybody!

[backinthesaddleagain]

Franco, engine braking and clutch wear aren't necessarily synonymous. Just rolling off the throttle can produce engine braking especially in the lower gears, perhaps not so much in the 250 twin. Downshifting to slow the bike would increase clutch wear. I think the right approach depends on the situation and the combination changes depending on that situation. Obviously to come to a compete stop you would be downshifting and using the brakes, but to just roll off some speed you might just roll off throttle. Find a good place to practice and experiment to find whats right for you.

[Rosie]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

i engine brake alllll the time. But I don't downshift more than one gear at a time. Lets say i'm coming to a red light, I down shift lets say from 4th gear to 3rd, I listen to the engine rawr then quiet down, then I shift again to 2nd, i let the engine do its thing, then I hold the clutch in and if I need to I'll drop it down to first and come to a complete stop, but usually, if i'm lucky, by that time the light turns green and I don't have to drop down to first, I just let roll the throttle on second and off I go.

Looks like I do the same exact way you do it

[Viper-Byte]

I never had a problem downshifting without blipping on my Ninja, just need to ensure the clutch is not dumped, and that you are not going to over rev the engine (this is required for downshifting in general, blipping or not.) and not going around a corner so as it does not upset the bike.

1st gear on the Ninja is too short to be usable, but on my Daytona, I am often in 1st and still in it over 60mph...

[tjkamper]

Originally Posted by bob706

Done that one too. That is where a gear indicator would be priceless

I don't know about everyone else, but the few times I have accidentally shift to first I can feel it in the shift and shift back to second, without ever letting out the clutch.

I typically won't go to first unless I'm already going about 5mph. I always match engine speed by blipping.

[Ryosen11]

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

I think they over blip, more like a blap.

LOL!

It was opposite for me. When I first started riding I had a habit of blipping just about every time I down shift. Sometimes I blap even though I meant to blip and jerk forward a little. Very embarassing and even dangerous.

[backinthesaddleagain]

^^ lol

[supermanzdead]

What does "blipping" mean?

[Tastytoast]

Blipping is, when the clutch lever is pulled in, giving a squirt of throttle while downshifting. This helps bring the RPMs up higher, hopefully making the downshift a bit smoother when you release the clutch lever. It's probably named this way because of the "blip" on the RPM gauge when you give the throttle a little twist.

here is a short youtube video that give you an idea of what it is.

Link to original page on YouTube.

in my opinion, this guy over does it a bit. it's just an example though, you can adjust it to your own liking.

i'd consider blipping the throttle while riding spirited to be a not beginner technique, not really necessary, but if you get it down you'll see results in the smoothness factor

[JMcDonald]

The more accurately you blip, the faster you can have the clutch out in the next gear without upsetting the chassis. In riding aggressively, I would go crazy having to deliberately ease the clutch out to keep the back wheel from hopping all over the place.

[supermanzdead]

That is impressive...my downshifting is no where near that smooth...I need to work on that quite a bit still...among other things.

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by JMcDonald

The more accurately you blip, the faster you can have the clutch out in the next gear without upsetting the chassis. In riding aggressively, I would go crazy having to deliberately ease the clutch out to keep the back wheel from hopping all over the place.

You aren't saving time, blipping makes the downshifting/slowing process take longer.

[JMcDonald]

Compared to what? Without blipping, if you just pop out the clutch in the next lower gear you will get bad rear-wheel skidding or hopping. Compared to just slowly letting out the clutch to allow the engine to calmly catch up to the drivetrain without rev-matching, blipping is as fast as you can get while still maintaining some control over the rear wheel.



Unless you are talking about just jamming it down through the gears and taking advantage of a back-torque-limiting clutch?

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by JMcDonald

Compared to what? Without blipping, if you just pop out the clutch in the next lower gear you will get bad rear-wheel skidding or hopping. Compared to just slowly letting out the clutch to allow the engine to calmly catch up to the drivetrain without rev-matching, blipping is as fast as you can get while still maintaining some control over the rear wheel.



Unless you are talking about just jamming it down through the gears and taking advantage of a back-torque-limiting clutch?

If you have enough rpm's left in the engine that you can blip, then you can downshift without blipping, smooth and faster than with blipping, without getting your rear end caddywhompus.

[JMcDonald]

How would it be smooth? If I am at 10k in 3rd (about 65mph for me) and shift down to 2nd without even a blip, the engine will be spinning almost 25% lower than it needs to be. I can guarantee my rear tire would be hopping and chirping.

BTW, if I am using the clutch to downshift, blipping does not add any time to what is already required to squeeze in the clutch and get the transmittion to the next lowest gear. Takes me about 1/4 to 1/3 of a second, without any loss of control of the rear, and is not affected by whether or not I do any quick throttle blipping.