Octane, Money and You??? What do you run in your 250 and why?

[LoD575]

I use 88 octane which is mid-grade in my location. The breakdown of ratings where I live at is 86, 88, and 90.

I don't believe in the hype regarding premium in normal street vehicles unless it's called for by the manufacturer.

Race vehicles and fuel is a different topic.

[NDspd]

I use 87 from BP, Shell, Marathon, and Chevron. No issues so far.

[lv250]

In CA I go 87 since it is like $100,000,000 and first born, kidney, and left.... well you get the idea. In NV or another less expensive area I run 91 but or 89. I run the bike hard soooooo... And why not treat the gal to a fine taste of octane.

[Lil_Green_Demon]

Though I mentioned earlier that I plan on sticking with 91, after reading some posts through this relatively old thread, I decided to go with 87 octane. What's the point of spending the extra 10-20 cents if it provides no benefit?

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by lv250

In CA I go 87 since it is like $100,000,000 and first born, kidney, and left.... well you get the idea. In NV or another less expensive area I run 91 but or 89. I run the bike hard soooooo... And why not treat the gal to a fine taste of octane.

Because she will NOT benefit from it at all...

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

Higher octane is formulated to prevent pre-detonation. This can cause the fuel mixture to not ignite at the correct time and leave unburnt fuel in the exhaust. It's why 87 is recommended. I run an advanced ignition map with 91 and even I can smell the unburnt fuel. I never could smell it with the 87, but the 91, I can definitely smell it when I come to a stop. I think it's because the BRT low ignition map is stock and only changes when the bike gets into the upper RPM band. Not getting a complete burn translates to lower performance and mpg.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by lv250

In CA I go 87 since it is like $100,000,000 and first born, kidney, and left.... well you get the idea. In NV or another less expensive area I run 91 but or 89. I run the bike hard soooooo... And why not treat the gal to a fine taste of octane.

Because in many cases, the way they get the higher octane rating is to mix in more alcohol. So while you think you are treating your bike, you may in fact be abusing it.

FYI, the higher the octane rating, the SLOWER the burn - which translates to poorer performance. The only reason to use higher octane rated gas is to prevent predetonation and pinging in the engine. I've personally never heard of a modern engine having that problem and certainly not the Ninja.

[250Monster]

I've always ran 93 in my 250. Would there be any problem switching it to 87 now?

[Mr.E]

I was reading the manual right now at work, thinking of this thread. Although the guy told me get 93 octane (not happening) my manual says min of 87 octane. so when I fill her up, 87 it will be.

[phr3ek]

just to recap so other newbies barely seeing this thread for the first time know whats going on

HIGHER OCTANE DOES NOT EQUATE TO BETTER PERFORMANCE

if you dont know what "octane" means, shut your trap

/close thread

[TheJimmyEnglish]

I run 93 octane 100% gasoline no ethanol. Also twice a month I use elixer treatment to keep deposits down.

[TheJimmyEnglish]

Originally Posted by 250Monster

I've always ran 93 in my 250. Would there be any problem switching it to 87 now?

Switching from 93 to 87 shouldn't give you any problems but you should go to your local shop and get some ethanol treatment unless you run 100% no ethanol

[Apocolypze01]

I run regular 91, then a full tank of premium 98 octane, then regular 91, then a full tank of premium 98, and so on...

Apparantly the premium fuel i use (BP ultimate) has some engine cleaners in it to break down carbon deposits within the engine and prevent build up.

[the big mike]

I ride 95 all the time, can't get anything with less octane in Belgium. No problems at all.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by the big mike

I ride 95 all the time, can't get anything with less octane in Belgium. No problems at all.

Is that RON or PON?

Originally Posted by kkim

did you read closer to see if it said 90+ octane RON or PON?

http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/R...RONMONPON.html

if it's 90+ RON, that's the same as our US gas 87 octane PON.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by 250Monster

I've always ran 93 in my 250. Would there be any problem switching it to 87 now?

The 87 will likely give you better performance than the 93. The 93 has more alcohol and other junk to slow the burn rate.

I don't think that Ninjas have catalytic converters, so you could run leaded fuels in it if you wanted. Your local neighborhood municipal airport probably sells 100 octane low lead. But the octane is so high, I would have reservations as to whether it would run very well in a Ninja. I suspect it would be like giving your bike a xanax.

If I remember correctly from chemistry class, pure octane only has an octane rating of about 60. Higher octane ratings means there are contaminants in there that mess with the burn rate.

[mrlmd]

It absolutely baffles me how many people, despite all the excellent advice they get from those with more knowledge and backed up by scientific evidence, hold on to their beliefs no matter what, in this case that high octane gas in a low compression engine (like in the Ninja 250) is better than regular gas, and that higher octane fuel has more additives to keep the engine clean, etc, etc. It's just like with climate change, global warming, evolution, taxing the rich will destroy jobs, tax cuts to the wealthy and big corporations will benefit the middle and lower class, corporations are people, no ATGATT is freedom of choice, etc, etc, etc.
Use what you want, believe what you want, despite what you are told. My advice - do some reading, like the 376 posts in this thread or on the internet and get informed, instead of just espousing an opinion or anecdotal story that has no validity or merit. It's time for this thread to die an aged death.

[dubojr1]

Ummmm Marc.... Could you tell us how you really feel? Lol

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

Ummmm Marc.... Could you tell us how you really feel? Lol

I'm curious what model of Ninja 250 had a low compression engine. All of the specs I have looked at show the compression ratio at about 12:1.

[the big mike]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

Is that RON or PON?

looked it up, it's RON, so actually we're running the same

[Alex]

Originally Posted by the big mike

looked it up, it's RON, so actually we're running the same

I don't think so, US uses (RON+MON)/2, or AKI. Info here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

Your 95 is roughly equivalent to our 91.

[mrlmd]

The compression ratio for the Ninja 250-250R ranges from 11.6-12.4 / 1, depending on the year (earlier is less), so my bad on that point as to being a low compression engine, but still, the recommended grade of fuel for all of these, from Kawasaki, is regular 87 octane. If your engine is pinging or subject to pre-ignition, a higher octane fuel can suppress this or make it disappear, but you are only masking a symptom, not curing a problem and you have to look for correcting timing issues, a wrong plug, carbon deposits, etc, causing this and not just changing to a higher octane fuel. You can mask the problem by switching to a fuel which burns slower, that also robs you of power. Rejetting or shimming needles doesn't require higher octane, you are just letting in more fuel doing this, higher octane fuel will still ignite and burn slower.

[zilaniz]

When I had my ninja 250 I always put in 87. With my R6 I put in premium usually 91

My STI however is very picky with gas and anything under 93 it does not like

[jonthechron]

I put 99,9953 % alcohol in my bike, is that bad ?

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by jonthechron

I put 99,9953 % alcohol in my bike, is that bad ?

Yes. Why would you be so mean to your Ninja?

[jonthechron]

Figured it would clean up her insides.. but i guess i was only poisoning her..

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by jonthechron

Figured it would clean up her insides.. but i guess i was only poisoning her..

Engines that run that pure ethanol need to have ethanol proof parts in the engine. Things like rubber tubing, o-rings, plastic, and carburetors need to be made special to handle it. AFAIK, the Ninja 250 engine is not one of them. This is not including the loss in performance and fuel economy.

Fuel injected bikes may be more tolerant of ethanol, but that's just speculation.

[mrlmd]

As soon as you expose pure ethanol to the air, it absorbs water vapor and winds up more like 95% ethanol.
It's the combination of water and ethanol as well as gas that is so corrosive, and FYI, mixtures like E15 are banned in the marine industry and for any car engine manufactured prior to 2001, as it damages fuel tanks, hoses, gaskets, as well as internal parts leading to very costly repairs not covered under any warranty.

[phr3ek]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I'm curious what model of Ninja 250 had a low compression engine. All of the specs I have looked at show the compression ratio at about 12:1.

considering that "normal" compression ratios are 14.7:1
then, the 250 does have low compression

just run whatever lowest is available in you area
as long as it doesnt ping of course

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by phr3ek

considering that "normal" compression ratios are 14.7:1
then, the 250 does have low compression

just run whatever lowest is available in you area
as long as it doesnt ping of course

Uh, I don't think so. 14.7 is a low compression Diesel engine. Or an extremely high compression gasoline engine.

Modern engines are all high compression and run about 10:1. The Ninja is very high compression at 12:1. You'll find low compression engines on antique cars like the Model T which was only 4.5:1.

[Alex]

We've already had this discussion, check out post 340 right above. No, the ninjette engine isn't particularly high compression, and the compression ratio alone (area of combustion chamber at BDC/TDC) isn't the full story when it comes to how compressed the air-fuel mixture truly is.

[phr3ek]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Uh, I don't think so. 14.7 is a low compression Diesel engine. Or an extremely high compression gasoline engine.

Modern engines are all high compression and run about 10:1. The Ninja is very high compression at 12:1. You'll find low compression engines on antique cars like the Model T which was only 4.5:1.

14.7:1 is the stoichiometric ratio, which is the "best" of both fuel economy and power output

that's why i say that that's "normal"
anything more than 14.7 is high comp, anything less is low comp

but then again you could be right, those numbers are from cars anyways
for those that dont know....
cars - high HP, low torque
bikes - low HP, high torque

as far as i know there are no diesel motorcycles, so why even mention it
everyone, at least those that know about cars, know that all diesels are high compression

[Alex]

The stoichiometric ratio (air to fuel ratio) has absolutely nothing to do with compression ratios (volume of combustion area, measured at BDC / TDC). The fact that they end up in a similar number range is a coincidence, nothing more.

[phr3ek]

Originally Posted by Alex

The stoichiometric ratio (air to fuel ratio) has absolutely nothing to do with compression ratios (volume of combustion area, measured at BDC / TDC). The fact that they end up in a similar number range is a coincidence, nothing more.

OMFG!!!!


i totally confused the two

sorry evurbady for the confusion

i shall now go in my corner and weep inside

[n4mwd]

I'd like to know just what bikes use 14.7:1 compression ratio. I looked at a few sport bike specs and they're all around 12:1. Like I said before, 14.7 is high enough for a diesel. That means that making a gasoline engine with that ratio would be problematic to say the least.

Generally speaking, the higher the CR, the more power in the power stroke. Ideally, a million to one ratio would be great, but the laws of physics get in the way.

[phr3ek]

i got my info wrong bruh

confused compression ratio with air:fuel ratio

[coondog]

87 octane is for use on all per-gens. With all the explanations of why, I still see "my baby gets 93" as if it's a good thing to ruin your fuel system and destroy your performance. Could a "93" Head explain, nay enlighten us?

[CynicalC]

There's already a massive thread here dedicated to the subject. Nothing about 93 will destroy your fuel system or anything performance. If it's not running right with 93, your spark is too cold and that's another problem.

The bikes were made to run on 87. Anything higher just hurts your wallet and nothing else.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by CynicalC

There's already a massive thread here dedicated to the subject. Nothing about 93 will destroy your fuel system or anything performance. If it's not running right with 93, your spark is too cold and that's another problem.

The bikes were made to run on 87. Anything higher just hurts your wallet and nothing else.

I almost went bankrupt buying 91

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I almost went bankrupt buying 91

Probably works out to be about $50 a year... Doesn't break the bank, but the idea that the bike "needs" higher octane is stupid. (except under certain circumstances maybe)

[LoD575]

I normally use 88 octane which is mid-grade for my location. Regular is 86 octane, have yet to use it in the ninjette.