Ecotrons Install Thread

[lolibater]

how do i go about syncing the throttle bodies?

[choneofakind]

Take some data of the bike for an entire ride. Get it completely up to temp. Let it idle for about 30 seconds at the end of your ride so you have a good batch of data of a hot engine that is in closed loop operation.

Then, you'll want to play it back, and make sure the following variables are shown on your playback:

• uLsb: voltage signal of lambda sensor #1
• uLsb2: voltage signal of lambda sensor #2
• fLc: factor of lambda control cyl #1
• fLc2: factor of lambda control cyl #2

I believe that 450 mV is the reading from the O2 sensors that indicates a 14.7 mixture. The fLc is the fuel control output basically.

You want to narrow the window on the x axis to be just a small portion of your data, like 10 seconds of the idle at the end. Then you want to compare the O2 readings from each side. I forget which side of 450 mV is rich and which side is lean. You'll have to check through the ecotrons info that came on your ProCal disk. I know it's on there somewhere...

Basically, if one side is showing consistently richer or leaner Oxygen sensor readings that the other, adjust the air screw a bit on one side to even them out. Turning the air screw out (CCW) adds more air (leaning the mix), turning the air screw in (CW) decreases the amount of air (enriching the mix).

[lolibater]

Does a manometer come into play at all?

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by lolibater

Does a manometer come into play at all?

you could do that with both of the vacumm lines on the TBs but u got to split the one side with the MAP sensor or it wont run right.

[lolibater]

I'm not sure I understand.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by lolibater

I'm not sure I understand.

your trying to see how much each TB draws in vacuum. Hooking both TBs to a sync tool it will show you which one is drawing more vacuum so u can adjust them accordingly. but MAP sensor needs to be in there somewhere or it wont run the bike so you need to T it on one side.

[EMSRacer07]

read here and maybe it will help you


could do it the way chone said too but that might be more complicated than it should be.

[n4mwd]

I'm a little confused as to why it would even need syncing when there are two O2 sensors being used. Wouldn't they self tune independently?

[flynjay]

Another way to do it is to look at the injector pulse width. Adjust the air bleeds to get them as close as possible. It will take a little while for the learning to catch up with the adjustment so be patient.

I would make an adjustment, then go for a quick ride. When you get back, let it idle for 30s or so and then take a look at the data. You should be able to slowly zero in on a balanced system.

Either open the side that has a shorter width or close the side that has a longer width. All depends on the idle you want to achieve.

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I'm a little confused as to why it would even need syncing when there are two O2 sensors being used. Wouldn't they self tune independently?

The O2 sensors will ensure the mixtures are perfect for each side, but the sync will make sure each side is getting the same amount of air, and therefore making the same amount of power.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by flynjay

The O2 sensors will ensure the mixtures are perfect for each side, but the sync will make sure each side is getting the same amount of air, and therefore making the same amount of power.

That makes sense, but the injector pulse width is controlled by the O2 sensors right? Sounds like the old fashioned manometer is the best way to go.

[flynjay]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

That makes sense, but the injector pulse width is controlled by the O2 sensors right? Sounds like the old fashioned manometer is the best way to go.

That's the point. If the injector pulse width is the same on both sides after the system has corrected the AFR to 14.7, then the two sides are balanced.

[lgk]

its pretty much the only way to do it unless each idle air circuit is controlled by individual servos and map sensors....

[lolibater]

That makes sense. Thanks guys.

The bike isn't even starting now, out of the blue. It just cranks and cranks, like it used to when I had the ECT sensor in the wrong spot.

I've left it off for about 3 hours, and it still will not start.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by lolibater

That makes sense. Thanks guys.

The bike isn't even starting now, out of the blue. It just cranks and cranks, like it used to when I had the ECT sensor in the wrong spot.

I've left it off for about 3 hours, and it still will not start.

make sure there are no air bubbles in the fuel pump, meaning its letting air bubbles out. Try with cracking the throttle a bit before starting it.

Any check engine lights?

[lolibater]

no check engine lights.

I tried with throttle closed, open, and partially open. None worked.

How can I make sure there are no bubbles in the pump?

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by lolibater

no check engine lights.

I tried with throttle closed, open, and partially open. None worked.

How can I make sure there are no bubbles in the pump?

just looking at the bubble line and making sure bubbles are coming through. but to me sounds like a fuel issue maybe air in the line or air in the fuel pump.

Where do you have the fuel pump and how is it orientated?

[lolibater]

the fuel pump is under where the tank mounts to the bracket on the frame. It started fine yesterday in this same orientation.

I double checked to make sure the components were in the right order of height.

Trying to bump start it, it sounds like it's almost going to start, but it won't probably becuase I live in the flattest area ever.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by EMSRacer07

could do it the way chone said too but that might be more complicated than it should be.

Not complicated.

hook up computer.
Go for ride.
Before shutting off, let idle 30 seconds in driveway.
Check out the data.
Adjust air screws accordingly, 1 screw at a time.

[lolibater]

All of my fuel lines are solid black, so I can't see if here are bubbles or not. I'm thinking that's what it is, because last time when I was having all those issues, my friend came to bleed the air out and it literally fired right up after that.

I wish I had watched how he did it. Any suggestions guys?

[choneofakind]

How do you keep getting so much air in your lines? Do you need to re-route a little so the bubble line from the pump flows upward better to carry bubbles out? I've never had this issue.

I would just try cycling the key on and off a few times and letting the pump run to try and get as much air out as possible. Other than that, idk because I've never had air bubble issues.

[lolibater]

I wonder if the quick disconnects are the culprits. the pump is mounted with the spade connectors on the downwards slope. Is that how yours is?

All I remember from last time was people telling me over and over that the pump does it itself, or to cycle the key on and off, and it never worked. My friend came over and manually bled it somehow and it worked after that.

[choneofakind]

Yes, my pump is mounted with the power connectors/fuel output on the downhill side, and the intake/bubble line on the uphill side. It's kinda cool to watch the bubble line while the bike runs.

[lolibater]

I just don't get it. It was working fine the other day. I took the tank off to install a bolt somewhere, and when I put the tank back on it hasn't started since.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by lolibater

I just don't get it. It was working fine the other day. I took the tank off to install a bolt somewhere, and when I put the tank back on it hasn't started since.

There's the problem, stop touching the bike

[lolibater]

I figured out how to bleed it and it sounded like it wanted to start after that , but then it stopped. After that I got a MIL light saying problem with MAP sensor. I took it ff, and it smelled a little like gas so I put it out in the sun.

[choneofakind]

Try a longer piece of hose on the MAP sensor

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by lolibater

I wonder if the quick disconnects are the culprits. the pump is mounted with the spade connectors on the downwards slope. Is that how yours is?

I'm wondering the same thing.

When you turn off the engine, the fuel flow is stopped and heat from the engine can cause the gas to bubble. The only thing I can suggest is to put more of a downward angle on the pump. The outlet must be as low as possible and lower than the lowest part of the tank.

I think you said your quick disconnects are dual shutoffs - meaning that both sides are cut off when disconnected. I'm wondering if you replaced the return with a single shutoff if that would help.

In any event, I would disconnect the return disconnect and see if you can jam a nail or something in there to let the gas free flow into a gas can or something. That should get the bubbles past the pump.

[lolibater]

I let the map sensor dry and the error code is gone now. I cranked it for about 30 seconds, and it fired a few times, but did not start. It backfired once too. The noises it's making sound kinda awful lol. I'm sure my battery will die soon.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Try a longer piece of hose on the MAP sensor

Does the new TB still have the problem with the MAP sensor filling with gasoline? I know that loli is using the old one.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by lolibater

I let the map sensor dry and the error code is gone now. I cranked it for about 30 seconds, and it fired a few times, but did not start. It backfired once too. The noises it's making sound kinda awful lol. I'm sure my battery will die soon.

You need to hook up procal and find out if the MAP sensor is still working. Sometimes drying them out fixes them, sometimes not. The only way to be sure is to look at the data.

EDIT: The MAP sensor is a critical sensor and the engine will not run without it.

EDIT2: Didn't Matt send you a new one?

[lolibater]

There is no more mil light and when i run diagnostics it says "system working properly". I'll try to crank it fro 30 seconds again to see if it will start.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by lolibater

There is no more mil light and when i run diagnostics it says "system working properly". I'll try to crank it fro 30 seconds again to see if it will start.

Don't crank any more unless you are logging data for Matt. You'll just run the battery down. One thing about EFI is that it generally either works or it doesn't. Time to send Matt the log file.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Does the new TB still have the problem with the MAP sensor filling with gasoline?

I honestly have no idea. I haven't had issue with the bike running, so I would assume that does not have that issue?

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I honestly have no idea. I haven't had issue with the bike running, so I would assume that does not have that issue?

How long is your MAP tube?

[lolibater]

Yeah it just backfired a few times but no starting. I'll stop cranking it now and leave it off. No MIL light anymore. My Fuel Pressure Regulator is leaking some kind of brown stuff. Is that normal?

[lolibater]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

How long is your MAP tube?

About 2 inches. Same length as the plugged tube on the other runner or w/e it's called.

[lolibater]

let me know if this helps

[n4mwd]

Well for sure you have the new TB and not the old. Did you change it out or is that the one that came with the bike?

The fuel pump does look a bit high to me.

Just askin, but when you crank, you have the tank on there and everything hooked up right?

[lolibater]

Yes the tank is on when i try to start. This all came with the bike.

It's backfiring but not starting. Too lean? Fuel pressure regulator is leaking. How can I wipe the ECU to be more close to the parts I currently have. I don't think "learn mode" is going to fix this.

[choneofakind]

@n4mwd if I had to guess, mine's about 2 inches.
@lolibater that is organized funny. I organized mine differently.

On mine:
The fuel line/filter goes down the left side of the bike to the pump. The pump pressurizes the fuel towards the TB on the right side. The pressurized fuel feeds the injectors from the right TB to the left TB. The pressure regulator is on the left side after the left TB, and the fuel return line meets up with the bubble line on the left.

It looks like this from the left:


It seems like you have a lot of tubing. I'm not sure if that makes any difference or not, just an observation.