June 28th, 2012, 11:56 PM | #1 |
RIP Alex
Name: Cuong
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Ninja 250 Rotella T6 oil analysis
Just got back lab results today and here it is:
Scenario of my oil change: I changed the oil after I had gotten home from work so it was still hot. Unfortunately the sample was first catch (as in right as it came out of the drain hole). Not sure how this affects accuracy of results. I think I had some grime on the drain bolt that might have fallen into the sample. It started sprinkling as I was doing the oil change so I noted that in the report. I also noted that I rejetted the bike and it's possible that I could be running in the rich side. Sample was poured into a clean glass jar until the shipping container came in the mail. I bought the bike brand new, heat cycled and ran the piss out of it for break-in. There are some variables I need to rule out, so I'm going to shoot the lab an email to get some clarifications as to other possible leads on the high iron and aluminum content. As you may know, MFG recommends use of 10W40 instead of 5W40 which is what T6 is. I'm wondering if the thin cold weight is accelerating wear.
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June 29th, 2012, 05:11 AM | #2 |
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How do you order this kit?
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June 29th, 2012, 05:16 AM | #3 |
Ambrosia.
Name: Jaymie
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It's not a kit. You take a sample of your oil to an oil diagnostic station. Kinda like a pee test for your bike.
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June 29th, 2012, 06:48 AM | #4 |
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Free kits: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php
Coung: Thanks for posting this man. T6 for now has become a suspect on whether or not I want to continue using it. Our break-ins are a bit different as a did heat cycle but I was pretty easy on mine for the first 300-400 miles and then progressively increased the spirited riding over the next 250 miles. The aluminum count is a bit concerning. I'm trying to imagine what you could have dropped into the oil from the drain-plug that would have this number so high. One other concern is the silicon count. This indicates poorer filtration conditions (compared to the average) of the air entering the engine. What air filter are you using and what are your maintenance intervals for it? On a positive note the TBN on the T6 is good. This indicates that the oil is still in good usable condition right? Report says you had 4,200 miles on it but I assume since the aluminum count is so high that the lab is suggesting to reduce the interval to 2k pending further analysis. I'm really at loss of what to do here. I have ~2,700 miles on my current change and intended on changing again at the 5k interval. I'm now wondering if I want to go ahead and have an analysis done and change it to Amsoil or just run it pending my own sample & oil analysis.... Low mileage motors for these bikes can be had for a few hundred dollars too so I'm not sure how much all the worrying and testing is really worth. I think I'll order a kit and pending your update, I'll then decide what I want to do.
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June 29th, 2012, 07:13 AM | #5 |
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June 29th, 2012, 07:34 AM | #6 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
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Motul engine oil FTMFW!!!
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June 29th, 2012, 07:46 AM | #7 |
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After some further reading on the internet mind you... I can't seem to find any other reports that show T6 to be a lesser quality engine oil. I did read too that the Blackstone "average" is not a good source to compare because it based on oil submitted by bike vs. maybe mileage on oil.
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June 29th, 2012, 07:47 AM | #8 |
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June 29th, 2012, 07:48 AM | #9 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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You have to have a kit to send back to the lab unless you have a lab in your area.
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June 29th, 2012, 08:04 AM | #10 |
Intrepid Adventurer
Name: Josh
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thats really coool !
Now if only I could buy something worth worrying about . hmmmm |
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June 29th, 2012, 08:18 AM | #11 |
So, where's the reverse?
Name: Anson
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Generally the lab results that people post in various forums for T6 are pretty positive. It's difficult to take results from a single sample from one user and draw a wide-sweeping definitive conclusion about a particular oil; especially from a sample with concerns about possible contamination. You can switch back to 10W40 and send that for lab analysis just to make sure that something else isn't going on with your engine.
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June 29th, 2012, 08:27 AM | #12 |
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I fear Coung may in fact have an engine/transmission issue.
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June 29th, 2012, 08:36 AM | #13 |
RIP Alex
Name: Cuong
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I changed out my stock air filter maybe a month or two ago and have been using Wix oil filters. There's still plenty of additive left in the oil as indicated by the TBN so doing oil changes at 5k shouldn't be a problem. I just got to figure out where all the aluminum is coming from.
Edit: forgot about my viscosity testing.... I called them and they said that it could be excessive pressure which is shearing the oil and thus reducing the viscosity. I don't fully understand it but I'll go with it.
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June 29th, 2012, 08:47 AM | #14 |
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I'm using a mix of WIX and K&N oil filters with a K&N air filter. What air filter did you change to?
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June 29th, 2012, 10:25 AM | #15 |
RIP Alex
Name: Cuong
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I changed to an Uni panel filter. I'm not really worried about all the aluminum found at the moment but what worries me more is that my viscosity degraded which brought it down to a 30 grade oil. I'm going to send another sample in at 3k and see what results I get.
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June 29th, 2012, 10:42 AM | #16 |
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I seen the numbers for that but I wasn't clear on how to interpret them. Can you explain?
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June 29th, 2012, 02:31 PM | #17 | |
RIP Alex
Name: Cuong
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Quote:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/effects-of-shearing/
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June 29th, 2012, 07:37 PM | #18 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
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As little oil as this things takes I may change it at 2k anyways
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June 29th, 2012, 09:01 PM | #19 | |
RIP Alex
Name: Cuong
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Quote:
Here's a good read for those who want to learn more about oil lubrication properties pertaining to sports bikes: http://www.sportrider.com/hands_on/h...oil/index.html http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0310_oil/index.html
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June 30th, 2012, 09:43 AM | #20 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Jason
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did you notice any difference in engine noise after switching to T6? My bikes been having a ticking cam chain when I first start it up but goes away when the engine is warm. I think it has something to do with the oil, it has a different viscosity when cold but same when its warm compared to 10W40
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June 30th, 2012, 12:36 PM | #21 | |
RIP Alex
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Quote:
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June 30th, 2012, 05:33 PM | #22 |
ninjette.org sage
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yea..I was running Motul 5100 before, going to switch back to that.
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June 30th, 2012, 09:08 PM | #23 |
ninjette.org member
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Shortening change intervals isn't a bad idea. It then comes out to whether amsoil is cheaper in the long run at a longer interval. Don't take my word for it, I run Rotella T (not T6) for max of 2k miles.
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July 1st, 2012, 08:59 PM | #24 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Steve
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I run amsoil. Switched to synthetic at 1k miles. Was planning on using T6 but my local CarQuest had a special on the Amsoil. I only use Wix filters.
Planning on changing at 5k intervals. |
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November 5th, 2012, 08:17 PM | #25 |
Ninjette wanabe :D
Name: Ruslan
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best motor oils?
Well im not quite there but i am excitalily plaining my first oil change at 3k miles and im halfway there? Anyone here ever use motul 300v Is it good and worth it?
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November 5th, 2012, 08:20 PM | #26 |
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November 5th, 2012, 08:45 PM | #27 |
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Shell Rotella T6. Duh!
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November 5th, 2012, 08:47 PM | #28 | |
crash 250, get supersport
Name: Richard
Location: San Diego, CA
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Quote:
I ran Amsoil 10w-40 once and switched to Rotella T6 for both the 250R and ZX6R, can't beat the price when you can get it for ~$20/gallon. |
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November 5th, 2012, 09:25 PM | #29 |
ninjette.org dude
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/merged with an interesting Rotella thread
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November 5th, 2012, 10:49 PM | #30 | |
Freedom for Germany
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Quote:
Shifting is much much better and very smooth and if you search in the web they say it even should give you a lil more power. |
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November 5th, 2012, 10:53 PM | #31 |
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Fancy oil gives your bike more power?
Only if you consider how much lighter your wallet is. Rus, use whatever the hell oil you want. I use Rotella T6 because it's easy to buy and it seems to last longer for me mileage-wise. ymmv. But traditional cheapo oil that's only $8 a gallon will do just fine as well. The important part is remembering when you do oil changes, and doing them regularly. |
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November 5th, 2012, 11:07 PM | #32 | ||
crash 250, get supersport
Name: Richard
Location: San Diego, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
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November 5th, 2012, 11:10 PM | #33 |
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How much does an oil change cost with the Amsoil? I pay about $20 for a gallon of T6, which lasts me 2 oil changes, with a touch leftover. Buy a filter, and it comes out to about $15/oil change. Not bad in my books. I change it every 3000-3500 anyways.
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November 5th, 2012, 11:13 PM | #34 | |
crash 250, get supersport
Name: Richard
Location: San Diego, CA
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Quote:
EDIT: Looks like Motul 300V is also a pricey oil, it's up there with Repsol 4T fully synthetic racing oil and Mobil1 4T racing at around $15/quart or ~$50-60/gallon. |
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November 5th, 2012, 11:51 PM | #35 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Jason
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No need wasting money on 300v. For a 250 the 5100 is more than enough
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November 6th, 2012, 01:25 AM | #36 |
Freedom for Germany
Location: This World
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Yes, at least your right the cheaper oil is good enough, sure for driving on the roads in America you don't need racing oil because you have the speed limited for 100 km/h (66 mph). On the race circuit this may be a good idea.
But for Germany that's very different because there's no speed limit and also the setups in engines, ignitions and fuel-systems from speed-limited countries you can not compare to the setups for Germany, but I think that's what you already know. So forgive me when I talk with my german experiences in mind |
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November 6th, 2012, 07:35 AM | #37 |
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Synthetic oil will resist break down at extreme heat, and do better at cold starts, but that does not mean that it is necessary to pay a ridiculous amount for some fancy race blend and claim that it makes more horsepower. The high temp and cold starting properties of synthetic are why I use synthetic oil (T6), but I'm not going to pay obscene amounts for Motul when there's a significantly less expensive option that has been proven with many riders to work just fine.
background on synthetic oil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil edited because it's not worth arguing |
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November 6th, 2012, 07:52 AM | #38 |
ninjette.org member
Name: George
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I'm a believer in t6, I see that you tested this on a new bike? With the piston rings embedding and grooving into the walls I wonder if that caused the aluminum count? I doubt the block is aluminum but I'm wondering if the rings are aluminum?
If this was oil done on the bike for the first time I'd be hesitant to draw conclusions from this just due to the fact that so much is happening during the break in period and I know with cars running break in oil after a rebuild or regular dino oil is preferred for setting the rings. I've done multiple tests with my car, I do a lot of work on vw's/audis and when I switched to rotella t6 in my personal car I noticed an oil psi gain of 5 at idle (10psi to 15) and at 3k it went from 40 psi to 50ish. The oil also smells different from most oils has a sweet smell(especially if it burn) very thing I've read is great on it in the European car world even trying to find bad reviews aren't too readily available. And for the price vs motul I save quote a bit as the car takes 5qts. My $.02 |
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November 6th, 2012, 02:28 PM | #39 |
wat
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wow. such a high aluminum content? maybe the 5 weight cold viscosity is making all the oil drain from the head and causing extra wearing on the head?
note, the cylinder walls are iron, the rings are steel and the head is aluminum.
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November 6th, 2012, 03:39 PM | #40 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Jason
Location: Houston, TX
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Considering the oil would drain from the head when the bike is hot so at 40 weight and the fact that the cold viscosity will never be less than the viscosity at hot temperatures, I don't see this as being a high probability.
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