Philosophical question

FrugalNinja250 · March 9th, 2012, 05:30 PM

If a "bad" guy and a "good" guy get in a fight, and the bad guy prevails because he had superior fighting tools, does that mean the bad guy's win makes him right? In other words, how important is intent compared to outcome?

kyrider · March 9th, 2012, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

If a "bad" guy and a "good" guy get in a fight, and the bad guy prevails because he had superior fighting tools, does that mean the bad guy's win makes him right? In other words, how important is intent compared to outcome?

Define good and bad.

CynicalC · March 9th, 2012, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyrider

Define good and bad.

Exactly. When people fight, they both believe themselves to be in the right. Right or wrong is all subjective.

lgk · March 9th, 2012, 06:49 PM

depends on the game, and the audience.

Jono · March 9th, 2012, 07:37 PM

my definition of a "good" guy wouldn't have gotten himself into a fight.

Apex · March 10th, 2012, 01:09 AM

If said good guy was cornered and felt the need to defend himself, that would be a different situation. To what extent he defends himself, that can determine good and bad as well.

Then again, the good guy is a simple matter of point of view. If someone supports one guy, then that guy becomes "good" in his/her eyes, while the other becomes bad, and vice versa.

To me there is no good or bad in a fight, especially when egos are involved. To me two big egos that clash in a physical way, they are both in the wrong, both bad.

I suppose I speak from my own experiences. I try to diffuse the problem with the least amount of physical exertion. That means, I talk my way out of it or if it the other party escalates it to a physical form, I do the minimal amount of work to put a stop to it. It may be a swift kick to the shin, or something like that, but I'll stop the fight and walk away. Fighting isn't worth my time. If they continue to chase after me, I'll go after the weaknesses in the body to put an end to the altercation once and for all.

bluesinorbit · March 10th, 2012, 02:20 AM

Thrasymachus from Plato's Republic argues that rules of morality are purely conventional and are made by those with the power to make them. In other words, might makes right. He goes further to say that in almost every situation, morality is a weakness and can be taken advantage of by the strong for a favorable outcome. The conclusion is that the best life is had by those who win at any cost.

Plato agrees with the question of "the best life is..." but has a conclusion of his own. The best life is a happy life. Happiness is one thing that everyone can agree is good by nature and it is something that everyone strives for in his or her own way. So the question becomes, "How is true happiness attained?" There are many things that give us fleeting happiness, but such feelings wash away. By nature, fleeting happiness is produced by situations and their outcomes, and it is this kind of lesser happiness that Thrasymachus promotes. True happiness is not a momentary feeling, but an enduring state of being. By this definition, being happy is a reflection of one's being, specifically the soul according to Plato. If being moral is good in itself, above all, regardless of negative outcomes, it must not be based on fleeting feelings of happiness that are specifically dependent on positive outcomes. It must be intrinsic to our state of being, our soul and its goal to be happy. Thus, being moral is the only way to become truly happy.

If you think back in your life and did something just for its rightness sake facing an imminent negative consequence with no social or monetary gain to be had(probably as a child, we adults think too much), you may have felt something like what Plato was talking about. I remember an incident as a kid and it wasn't a pleasant experience for me at the time, but I sure slept better back then.

greenaero · March 10th, 2012, 07:40 AM

Sometimes the difference between good and bad is very clear. Sometimes we must fight to protect innocents and to prevent the spread of evil. To fight evil it is not always necessary to use physical force but sometimes it's the only option. Superior force exercised by an evil agent does not make them right or good. All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

It isn't easy to take a stand on what you believe in, but if you don't you diminish yourself. Sometimes you may suffer a physical loss but by fighting for what is right you ultimately win. Look at history: The cruxifiction of Jesus Christ, the assasination of Dr. King; their physical loss was only a temporary setback to the victory of their superior ideas.

coondog · March 10th, 2012, 08:47 AM

Intent is everything when it's good vs. evil. That's why the good turn their cheeks and the evil get theirs eventually manyfold.

Snake · March 10th, 2012, 06:11 PM

Might does not make right.

FrugalNinja250 · March 11th, 2012, 03:42 PM

Perhaps a different way of asking the question is, "Is winning the most important definition of 'righteousness'"?

bluesinorbit · March 11th, 2012, 08:34 PM

I don't think it's part of the definition at all.

edit: phone typo

mustang5.0 · March 12th, 2012, 02:52 PM

its all about how you see it...
take the "bad guy".. but the "bad guy is my homie, and in my eyes good guy but to society he is criminal..
either way, most have good and evil in them.. its finding a balance
i am way more bad guy then i am good

kyrider · March 12th, 2012, 06:57 PM

I like the do unto others as you would have done to you.

I have played sheepdog a few times to my wifes dismay but I was not raised to sit back and do nothing when someone is being abused in front of me. I guess that makes me the judge in those situations.

alex.s · March 13th, 2012, 01:31 PM

It doesn't matter who wins. I'm right, regardless.

Alex · March 13th, 2012, 01:41 PM

It doesn't matter who's right. I win, regardless.

bluesinorbit · March 13th, 2012, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

It doesn't matter who's right. I win, regardless.

massacremasses · March 14th, 2012, 02:54 PM

When life gives you lemons, just say "**** the lemons", and bail

[img]http://bachelorfrog.com/showimage.php/2841/when-life-gives-you-lemons-you-say-****%21-the-lemons..-and-bail.jpg[/img]

Mocha Man · March 19th, 2012, 03:41 PM

There's only one way to answer this question, and that is to ask cha-cha.

March 9th, 2012, 05:30 PM	#1
FrugalNinja250 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Frugal Location: Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW) Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): Several Posts: A lot.	Philosophical question If a "bad" guy and a "good" guy get in a fight, and the bad guy prevails because he had superior fighting tools, does that mean the bad guy's win makes him right? In other words, how important is intent compared to outcome?

March 10th, 2012, 01:09 AM	#6
Apex Livin' the Minimoto Life Name: Mark Location: Riding around in TX Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2022 Honda Navi, 2018 Z-125 Pro Posts: A lot.	If said good guy was cornered and felt the need to defend himself, that would be a different situation. To what extent he defends himself, that can determine good and bad as well. Then again, the good guy is a simple matter of point of view. If someone supports one guy, then that guy becomes "good" in his/her eyes, while the other becomes bad, and vice versa. To me there is no good or bad in a fight, especially when egos are involved. To me two big egos that clash in a physical way, they are both in the wrong, both bad. I suppose I speak from my own experiences. I try to diffuse the problem with the least amount of physical exertion. That means, I talk my way out of it or if it the other party escalates it to a physical form, I do the minimal amount of work to put a stop to it. It may be a swift kick to the shin, or something like that, but I'll stop the fight and walk away. Fighting isn't worth my time. If they continue to chase after me, I'll go after the weaknesses in the body to put an end to the altercation once and for all. __________________________________________________ --- My IG Page --- My FB page! --- 2022 Honda Navi && 2018 Z-125 Pro

March 11th, 2012, 08:34 PM	#12
bluesinorbit ninjette.org member Name: Joon Location: Orange County, CA Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250R Posts: 164	I don't think it's part of the definition at all. edit: phone typo Last futzed with by bluesinorbit; March 12th, 2012 at 01:29 AM.

March 12th, 2012, 02:52 PM	#13
mustang5.0 ninjette.org guru Name: E Location: 818 but i rep 516/631/718 Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2011 GIXXER 600 Posts: 381	its all about how you see it... take the "bad guy".. but the "bad guy is my homie, and in my eyes good guy but to society he is criminal.. either way, most have good and evil in them.. its finding a balance i am way more bad guy then i am good __________________________________________________ "You see it's not the blood you spill that gets you what you want. It's the blood you share, your family, your friendships, your community. These are the most valuable things a man could have."

March 13th, 2012, 01:31 PM	#15
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	It doesn't matter who wins. I'm right, regardless. __________________________________________________

March 9th, 2012, 06:49 PM	#4
lgk ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Jason Location: Norfolk, VA Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2012 EX250, 2014 EX300 Posts: A lot.	depends on the game, and the audience.

March 9th, 2012, 07:37 PM	#5
Jono ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Jono Location: Memphis, TN Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Triumph Street Triple, 2009 KLX250SF, 2003 Suzuki SV650S (Sold), 2006 Ninja 250 (Sold) Posts: A lot.	my definition of a "good" guy wouldn't have gotten himself into a fight.

March 10th, 2012, 02:20 AM	#7
bluesinorbit ninjette.org member Name: Joon Location: Orange County, CA Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250R Posts: 164	Thrasymachus from Plato's Republic argues that rules of morality are purely conventional and are made by those with the power to make them. In other words, might makes right. He goes further to say that in almost every situation, morality is a weakness and can be taken advantage of by the strong for a favorable outcome. The conclusion is that the best life is had by those who win at any cost. Plato agrees with the question of "the best life is..." but has a conclusion of his own. The best life is a happy life. Happiness is one thing that everyone can agree is good by nature and it is something that everyone strives for in his or her own way. So the question becomes, "How is true happiness attained?" There are many things that give us fleeting happiness, but such feelings wash away. By nature, fleeting happiness is produced by situations and their outcomes, and it is this kind of lesser happiness that Thrasymachus promotes. True happiness is not a momentary feeling, but an enduring state of being. By this definition, being happy is a reflection of one's being, specifically the soul according to Plato. If being moral is good in itself, above all, regardless of negative outcomes, it must not be based on fleeting feelings of happiness that are specifically dependent on positive outcomes. It must be intrinsic to our state of being, our soul and its goal to be happy. Thus, being moral is the only way to become truly happy. If you think back in your life and did something just for its rightness sake facing an imminent negative consequence with no social or monetary gain to be had(probably as a child, we adults think too much), you may have felt something like what Plato was talking about. I remember an incident as a kid and it wasn't a pleasant experience for me at the time, but I sure slept better back then.

March 10th, 2012, 07:40 AM	#8
greenaero Motorcycle Hypermiler Name: Vic Location: Livermore CA Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1999 & 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250R's Posts: A lot.	Sometimes the difference between good and bad is very clear. Sometimes we must fight to protect innocents and to prevent the spread of evil. To fight evil it is not always necessary to use physical force but sometimes it's the only option. Superior force exercised by an evil agent does not make them right or good. All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. It isn't easy to take a stand on what you believe in, but if you don't you diminish yourself. Sometimes you may suffer a physical loss but by fighting for what is right you ultimately win. Look at history: The cruxifiction of Jesus Christ, the assasination of Dr. King; their physical loss was only a temporary setback to the victory of their superior ideas.

March 10th, 2012, 08:47 AM	#9
coondog ninjette.org sage Name: john Location: Palm Beach County, Fl Sligo County, Eire Join Date: Dec 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ninja 250 street fighter, 2008 street fighter ninja 500, 2001 nsr 125 Posts: 812	Intent is everything when it's good vs. evil. That's why the good turn their cheeks and the evil get theirs eventually manyfold.

March 10th, 2012, 06:11 PM	#10
Snake ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Alexandria, Louisiana Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 05 Blue Ninja 250 Posts: Too much. MOTY - 2017, MOTM - Jan '19, Oct '16, May '14	Might does not make right.

March 11th, 2012, 03:42 PM	#11
FrugalNinja250 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Frugal Location: Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW) Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): Several Posts: A lot.	Perhaps a different way of asking the question is, "Is winning the most important definition of 'righteousness'"?

March 12th, 2012, 06:57 PM	#14
kyrider ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Bobbert Location: Russell Springs, KY Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	I like the do unto others as you would have done to you. I have played sheepdog a few times to my wifes dismay but I was not raised to sit back and do nothing when someone is being abused in front of me. I guess that makes me the judge in those situations.

March 13th, 2012, 01:41 PM	#16
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	It doesn't matter who's right. I win, regardless. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

March 14th, 2012, 02:54 PM	#18
massacremasses Avid Kitteh Poster Name: Justin Location: Norcal Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Yamaha TTR 50 SUCK IT Posts: A lot.	When life gives you lemons, just say "** the lemons", and bail [img]http://bachelorfrog.com/showimage.php/2841/when-life-gives-you-lemons-you-say-**%21-the-lemons..-and-bail.jpg[/img] __________________________________________________ I powdercoat stuff Help me pay for my addiction I say funny stuff. http://twitter.com/JustinPWNSyou sometimes... I write like a 12 year old too, http://justinpwnsyou.wordpress.com/

March 19th, 2012, 03:41 PM	#19
Mocha Man Blue Shell magnet Name: Nolan Location: Northwest Washington Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 1997 Ninja 250 Posts: 816	There's only one way to answer this question, and that is to ask cha-cha.

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