first problem ever with my ninja

[toua70]

I need some help/advice. It's been a lot colder this week than it has any other week here in socal. I just got to work now but my bike ran like crap and gave me trouble the entire way here

For one, it took about 10 tries to finally get my bike started (i ride every single day) even with choke on, it was difficult to keep the bike running and it'll keep dying everytime I touch the throttle. It even died on me about 2 miles in on my way to work and each time I accelerate, it ran like crap and my exhaust will pop non stop. Any advice on why its running like this? it ran fine just yesterday

so quick recap: each time i try to accelerate, it will jerk and not really accelerate. The exhaust pops as I accelerate or when I'm slowing down to stop and even when I got to work (which is way more than enough for the bike to warm up) as soon as I pulled into the parking lot, it dies on me. Any ideas?

[Motofool]

The easiest thing is to drain the bowls of the carbs, just in case you have some water in there.

[Falcor]

How long did you let it warm up?

[toua70]

I usually let it warm up for 5 minutes or so. I sat on the bike with the choke on when it finally started.. but as soon as I turned off the choke and try to accelerate, it'll die. Then I finally got it started again and I'll have to rev it high just so it'll pick up and go. But like I said, it jerks when I try to accelerate and exhaust pops over and over which gets annoying. Thinking I should just take it in. Not sure if its something I can fix on my own.

[Racer x]

Popping is lean condition. Look around for a loos hose or something. When was the last time it ran OK?

[toua70]

Originally Posted by Racer x

Popping is lean condition. Look around for a loos hose or something. When was the last time it ran OK?

I ride every single day to work and school. It ran fine just last night.

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by toua70

I ride every single day to work and school. It ran fine just last night.

Did you get fuel last night?
Maybe filled up with a bad batch of fuel?
It very uncommon but not unheard of, it's happened to me twice in my tundra

[DaBlue1]

It sounds like your engine may be lean with throttle openings.

Typical Lean Conditions:

- Poor acceleration; the engine feels flat.
- The engine won't respond when the throttle is snapped open, but it picks up speed as the throttle is closed. (A too-large main jet also mimics this symptom.)
- The engine runs hot, knocks, pings and overheats.
- The engine surges or hunts when cruising at part-throttle.
- Popping or spitting through the carb occurs when the throttle is opened. Or popping and spitting occurs through the pipe on deceleration with a closed throttle.
- The engine runs better in warm weather, worse in cool.
- Performance gets worse when the air filter is removed.

Here are some other things to look at from the TroubleShooting Guide

Poor Running at Low Speed:

Spark weak:
Battery voltage low
Spark plug dirty, broken, or maladjusted
Spark plug cap or high tension wiring trouble
Spark plug cap shorted or not in good contact
Spark plug incorrect
IC igniter trouble
Crankshaft sensor trouble
Ignition coil trouble


Fuel/air mixture incorrect:

Pilot screw maladjusted
Pilot jet, or air passage clogged
Air bleed pipe bleed holes clogged
Pilot passage clogged
Air cleaner clogged, poorly sealed, or element missing
Choke plunger stuck open
Fuel level in carburetor float bowl too high or too low
Fuel tank air vent obstructed (gas cap)
Carburetor holder loose
Air cleaner duct loose


Also ensure you keep fresh fuel in the tank during colder temps to prevent any possibility of condensation build up(even though the amount generated in the Ninjas small tank would be very, very tiny in a short period of time). Gas doesn’t atomize and burn as well in cold temperatures. A fuel treatment like Star Tron can help.

[toua70]

I did fill up last night. I wonder if it was just a bad batch of gasoline? I usually put nothing but Chevron in my bike but gas has been super pricey here in california so I went to United Oil instead. I'm also thinking (and hoping) that I just didn't let it warm up enough? But then again, I had so much trouble trying to start it with the choke on. So I'm not sure. I replaced the spark plugs around 6500 miles and i'm at 10100 now. I go home for lunch anyway so lets see how it performs when the weather is warmer. I'm hoping that it was just super cold this morning, thats why it ran like poorly because the 250s do take awhile to warm up.

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by toua70

I did fill up last night. I wonder if it was just a bad batch of gasoline? I usually put nothing but Chevron in my bike but gas has been super pricey here in california so I went to United Oil instead. I'm also thinking (and hoping) that I just didn't let it warm up enough? But then again, I had so much trouble trying to start it with the choke on. So I'm not sure. I replaced the spark plugs around 6500 miles and i'm at 10100 now. I go home for lunch anyway so lets see how it performs when the weather is warmer. I'm hoping that it was just super cold this morning, thats why it ran like poorly because the 250s do take awhile to warm up.

Yeah if the only thing different is the fuel that would be an easy fix maybe start there. The two times I got bad gas was from a flying-J station.

Is your bike still stock or do you have a few performance mods?

The reasons I ask is it seems most with cold running problems are still stock. I have and exhuast and jet kit from the previous owner and I've never had to touch my choke not even once and I ride every day rain or shine. Today it was in the 20s going to work.

[toua70]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Yeah if the only thing different is the fuel that would be an easy fix maybe start there. The two times I got bad gas was from a flying-J station.

Is your bike still stock or do you have a few performance mods?

The reasons I ask is it seems most with cold running problems are still stock. I have and exhuast and jet kit from the previous owner and I've never had to touch my choke not even once and I ride every day rain or shine. Today it was in the 20s going to work.

I have a after market exhaust, shimmed needles, aftermarket air filter. Thats just about it. I'm hoping thats the reason for the sluggish performance. I can't explain how it was struggling to start up though.

[r6boater]

Sounds like bad gas, maybe. The other thing is this... When air is colder it is more dense. This can lead to an even leaner condition than what you may have had before. Or even if it was not lean before, it may be now. Regardless, my bet is bad gas. It's usually worth the extra $.60 or so per fill up to get what you know is good...

[subxero]

How cold has it been? How much colder than typical riding? R you running stock? or have you jetted the bike?

If it is really cold, the air is more dense, so your air to fuel ratio could be off. This little change could push you into a lean or rich condition depending on which way temperature goes and how your bike runs at normal temps.

(I always get confused when thinking about, Lean vs Rich in cold temps) Dense air means you need more fuel so, the air to fuel is rich? but fuel to air is lean? and then other way around for warm temps? AHHH!!

I am still stock at the moment and my bike runs differently in cold temps but it still runs good.

I would check and change spark plugs for sure. It is cheap and never a bad idea.

[rojoracing53]

I recommend draining the tank and starting with some fresh GOOD gas and see what happens. I don't know anything about those fuel treatments so I won't recommend anything with that.

How you you drain the tank of the ninja if the valve is controled by vacum? Normaly I would just pop off the hose and turn on the petcock but that won't work on these bike? Anyone have a suggestion?

Does anyone think there's no way this is a bad fuel problem?

[r6boater]

Originally Posted by subxero

How cold has it been? How much colder than typical riding? R you running stock? or have you jetted the bike?

If it is really cold, the air is more dense, so your air to fuel ratio could be off. This little change could push you into a lean or rich condition depending on which way temperature goes and how your bike runs at normal temps.

(I always get confused when thinking about, Lean vs Rich in cold temps) Dense air means you need more fuel so, the air to fuel is rich? but fuel to air is lean? and then other way around for warm temps? AHHH!!

I am still stock at the moment and my bike runs differently in cold temps but it still runs good.

I would check and change spark plugs for sure. It is cheap and never a bad idea.

Lean vs rich is relative to the fuel. Cool air has more molecules of oxygen in a given volume than hot air. Therefore your ratio for fuel to air goes lean since there is "extra" oxygen when cool. "Richening" the fuel compensates for the extra oxygen.

[r6boater]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

I recommend draining the tank and starting with some fresh GOOD gas and see what happens. I don't know anything about those fuel treatments so I won't recommend anything with that.

How you you drain the tank of the ninja if the valve is controled by vacum? Normaly I would just pop off the hose and turn on the petcock but that won't work on these bike? Anyone have a suggestion?

Does anyone think there's no way this is a bad fuel problem?

Set the petcock to "pri" allows it to flow freely

[DaBlue1]

There are a couple of things you can do if you believe you got a tank of bad gas and the bike still performs in the PM the way it did in the early AM.

As suggested, you can drain the tank by removing the fuel line hose from the carb (optional; remove the fuel line from the petcock, attach a longer piece of 1/4" fuel line to the petcock), turn the petcock to PRI and drain the tank. Add fresh fuel.

or

Find some Star Tron and add it to the existing fuel. I've been using it for a good while with good results. I put it in my cars, lawn equipment and bike. I am surrounded by a lot of water and the stuff is sold almost everywhere now. There are even a few members on the forum that have used it.
You can find it at Walmart (in the Marine section), Advance Auto (small engine/motorcycle section, Auto Zone, West Marine (or other marine/boat stores), Tractor Supply Company, Lowes, and Home Depot, also check your local small engine repair shop.

[eljay]

Here's the way it works in Canada for these sometimes. You have to really warm the bike up for a while if it's less than about 20C (about 68F).

1. Choke fully on, start the bike.
2. Leave it, maybe up to 5 minutes depending how cold things are.
3 Watch the RPM. It should start to rise after a while. Don't rev the throttle, this is all just at idle.
4. If it doesn't rise after a while (at least 5 minutes), wiggle the choke in a bit until it does.
5. Eventually the RPM will start to really race. Ease off the choke, just very slightly until the RPM comes down and then stop easing of the choke right there. 6. Wait until it starts to race again and ease back some more.
7. Repeat until choke is almost off then just shut it off and go.
8. I kid you not some people have to wait 15 minutes up here before they can get going. That's why the cbr250 is so popular hehe.

This is all fixed with tuning/shimming/jetting and stuff, but then sometimes you have to tune/shim/jet in the spring, then redo in summer when it's hotter. So for you, you've tuned to a certain season and aren't tuned to the current season.

If this doesn't work for you, then for sure you have some other troubles besides just being cold.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by subxero

...(I always get confused when thinking about, Lean vs Rich in cold temps) Dense air means you need more fuel so, the air to fuel is rich? but fuel to air is lean? and then other way around for warm temps? AHHH!!

Joe,

Lean or rich refers to the fuel / air mix proportion.

The engine sucks a fix volume of air.
Then, it sucks more mass of cold air than mass of hot air.
In order to keep any flame alive, you need to keep a proportion of mass of air / mass of gasoline pretty close to 14.7

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochio..._of_combustion

Volume of air is what sucks the fuel out of the jests of any carburetor.
Hence, in cold weather, same old volume of air sucks same old amount of fuel (which may be now insufficient).

Just to make things worse, cold metal surfaces of the carburetor and engine in any cold morning, condenses part of that fuel already mixed with the air, making the mix that reaches and enters the combustion chamber even leaner.
Hence, the invention of the choke.

[alex.s]

hey i've worked on this bike... i remember the jetting was off... if i remember right mid range was too rich and top end was too lean... toua call up kevin and have him rejet the carbs, it will help a lot

[Jiggles]

You really should not be warming up a bike for more than 1 minute

[toua70]

I'm going to go on my lunch in about an hour. I always go home for lunch so lets see how it performs when the weather is a little warmer. Its been in the low 30s but today was the coldest I've experienced so far. If not, i'll be cleaning and syncing carbs

[eljay]

Maybe not in California. Most in the northern climes would say you should not be riding a bike after only warming for one minute.

Originally Posted by Jiggles

You really should not be warming up a bike for more than 1 minute

[rojoracing53]

I alway ride off when my bike hits 120deg and take it easy for the first mile. By then the temp is up to 160 and I can ring her neck.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by eljay

Maybe not in California. Most in the northern climes would say you should not be riding a bike after only warming for one minute.

Most in northern climes don't know what they are talking about

[toua70]

just got back from lunch. This time, it started up the first time around but it seemed like it lagged. I turned the choke on full, and started it up. It was idling really low and then 3 seconds or so later, choke finally started working. Bike is still sluggish. When I accelerate, it jerks a little and still makes popping noises. WHen Im at a complete stop and I rev, it also pops a lot (exhaust popping sound). I asked my friend and his ninja was also running poorly and having trouble starting up. He said it was probably just really cold. I'm hoping it was just a poor batch of gas and that its been super cold. I will take it in for carb work though. Just cleaning and syncing.

[subxero]

When i leave for work in the AM it is normally in the high 20's. I treat my bike like i always do. Start it with full choke, give it a few seconds to stabilize and adjust choke as necessary to keep rpms in good range. Ride off slow keeping revs low and adjust choke as the bike warms up. Normally by the time i get to my 3rd light the bike is warmed up and runs normal with the choke off.

I think i read it a few different places here that a lot of people agreed the bike warms up better, quicker while under load.

regardless i have not had a problem yet

[toua70]

Yeah I asked him again and he said his bike wouldn't even start up a couple days ago. I usually let it warm up a few minutes before riding. This is the FIRST time this has ever happened to me. I think its just the cheap gas. I'm gonna try to run it out and go back to chevron no matter how much it cost.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by toua70

Yeah I asked him again and he said his bike wouldn't even start up a couple days ago. I usually let it warm up a few minutes before riding. This is the FIRST time this has ever happened to me. I think its just the cheap gas. I'm gonna try to run it out and go back to chevron no matter how much it cost.

if you have a spare gas can you can run a tube from the gas line on the gas tank to the gas can and turn the petcock to prime and it will drain the tank into the gas can, then you can put just a little bit back in and ride to the gas station and fill up... that way you don't waste gas if you dont need to

[toua70]

Originally Posted by alex.s

if you have a spare gas can you can run a tube from the gas line on the gas tank to the gas can and turn the petcock to prime and it will drain the tank into the gas can, then you can put just a little bit back in and ride to the gas station and fill up... that way you don't waste gas if you dont need to

unfortunatey Alex, I don't have one. I'll just wait until I have to fill up again.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by toua70

....This is the FIRST time this has ever happened to me. I think its just the cheap gas. I'm gonna try to run it out and go back to chevron no matter how much it cost.

At least treat the gas you got so it doesn't happen again or get worse.

[toua70]

My bike died today. On my way to work.. Something broke and now there's a loud clicking sound when the bike is turned on. While riding, all I saw was white smoke coming out in front of me.. Used the engine cut off switch and came to a stop.. i had to push it into a cvs parking lot and then towed it home. I will be taking to the dealership hopefully this wknd to see if warranty will cover it. Bought it brand new in 2011 and currently have 10300 miles on it.. What a crappy day :/

[rojoracing53]

Sorry to hear that

wish you the best of luck

[subxero]

Does not sound good, Definitely keep us posted what you find out and how everything goes with warranty.

Best of luck

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by toua70

....Something broke and now there's a loud clicking sound when the bike is turned on. While riding, all I saw was white smoke coming out in front of me..

White smoke in front of you? Loud clicking?
Did you notice or smell oil, coolant or exhaust?

[toua70]

Thanks.. nothing was leaking.. just white smoke for a couple seconds.. ill keep you guys posted

[alex.s]

sounds like a blown head gasket... hopefully it didn't waterlock the piston and pulverize the crank bearing

[toua70]

Got it fixed.. Spark plug blew up (according to dealership) warranty covered it so just replaced sparks and runs great now

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by toua70

Got it fixed.. Spark plug blew up (according to dealership) warranty covered it so just replaced sparks and runs great now

Plugs blowing up at 3600 miles? Strange.
What brand plugs were those?

[toua70]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Plugs blowing up at 3600 miles? Strange.
What brand plugs were those?

Sorry didnt see this.. they were OEM