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Old June 11th, 2013, 06:29 AM   #1
jconolty
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Front brake drag. Can't figure it out

OK. Im getting brake drag after every race or track session. I have started off trying to cure the problem by cleaning the pistons, lowering the MC reservoir level, cleaning the pad hanger pins (no worn sections and I went ahead and sanded down any imperfection, removed the "noise springs"(the metal piece that sits between the caliper and top of pads to keep them held back), cleaned the rotor with acetone, and scuffed up the pads (EBC extremes). when I reinstall after the clean up the wheel spins much better(obviously I pumped the brakes up then spun the wheel), but as soon as I come in after a session after all of this sure enough its dragging horribly again. any help or ideas would be appreciated.
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Old June 11th, 2013, 06:45 AM   #2
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Do you have fresh brake fluid? Are you running stainless steel? I have seen rubber brake line collapse before but that was on a truck. It's a possibility.
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Old June 11th, 2013, 06:46 AM   #3
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Did you check to see if you rotor is over warped?

They are warp to a degree and only get worse with time but if it gets bad enough you will drag.

Did you try exiting the track using the rear brake only to see if the front is dragging through the turns or only after initial application?
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Old June 11th, 2013, 06:50 AM   #4
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Quote:
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Do you have fresh brake fluid? Are you running stainless steel? I have seen rubber brake line collapse before but that was on a truck. It's a possibility.
fresh fluid and steel braided lines.
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Old June 11th, 2013, 06:52 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rojoracing53 View Post
Did you check to see if you rotor is over warped?

They are warp to a degree and only get worse with time but if it gets bad enough you will drag.

Did you try exiting the track using the rear brake only to see if the front is dragging through the turns or only after initial application?
it is not warped like side to side but I have not checked for bowl warping. but the pads are wearing very even. also forgot to mention I cleaned and greased the slides with a lite lithium grease
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Old June 11th, 2013, 06:53 AM   #6
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oh also. the pads are glazing pretty bad so that is my next move to get a different brand of race pads and see if it helps. Im going to try DP. what are yall running for race pads?
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Old June 11th, 2013, 07:31 AM   #7
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I use EBC with no problems on all my bikes. As for glazing that could be from overuse at the track or my e poor bedding in on the pads initialy. Like I said all single piece rotor WILL warp like a bowl due to heat expaction and simple physics. When you check the warpage keep the rotor on the wheel because it will be held straightest that way. Once removed from the wheel it will bow like crazy but don't worry, once you bolt it back on it will straighten out again. Another thing you could try is flipping the front rotor over so it is warped the other way and see if your dragging reduces. We have a theory on way the rotor always warp in one direction so I figure if you flip the rotor every weekend you can prolong its life.

Yes I have flipped my front rotor and have riden on it with no problems, they are a symmetrical rotor with only the marking to differentiate one side from the other. Ill admit I wasn't able to flip it a second time because I swapped to a Yamaha front wheel and braking system.
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Old June 11th, 2013, 07:35 AM   #8
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When you say clean the pistons, do you mean you pulled them from the caliper.
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Old June 11th, 2013, 07:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
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When you say clean the pistons, do you mean you pulled them from the caliper.
no just pushed them out a bit and used a tooth brush and soapy water to clean the pistons and caliper and then blew them clean with compressed air
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Old June 11th, 2013, 07:53 AM   #10
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Quote:
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I use EBC with no problems on all my bikes. As for glazing that could be from overuse at the track or my e poor bedding in on the pads initialy. Like I said all single piece rotor WILL warp like a bowl due to heat expaction and simple physics. When you check the warpage keep the rotor on the wheel because it will be held straightest that way. Once removed from the wheel it will bow like crazy but don't worry, once you bolt it back on it will straighten out again. Another thing you could try is flipping the front rotor over so it is warped the other way and see if your dragging reduces. We have a theory on way the rotor always warp in one direction so I figure if you flip the rotor every weekend you can prolong its life.

Yes I have flipped my front rotor and have riden on it with no problems, they are a symmetrical rotor with only the marking to differentiate one side from the other. Ill admit I wasn't able to flip it a second time because I swapped to a Yamaha front wheel and braking system.
very good point. I will do this as well. thanks again. I just wonder if I got a bad set of pads because they glaze every time im out and I come in and scuff them clean before races
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Old June 11th, 2013, 08:13 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jconolty View Post
very good point. I will do this as well. thanks again. I just wonder if I got a bad set of pads because they glaze every time im out and I come in and scuff them clean before races
Try not to remove that coating of brake pad every time because then if you go back out and just clamp on the brakes on track your going to glaze your pads every time.
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Old June 11th, 2013, 08:35 AM   #12
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run better fluid.
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Old June 11th, 2013, 09:13 AM   #13
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run better fluid.
I run silkoline dot 4
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Old June 11th, 2013, 09:13 AM   #14
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Try not to remove that coating of brake pad every time because then if you go back out and just clamp on the brakes on track your going to glaze your pads every time.
will do. how do you seat yours in?
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Old June 11th, 2013, 10:10 AM   #15
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WHAT DOES "BEDDING-IN" BRAKE PADS REALLY MEAN?
Much like a new set of pistons and rings in a freshly bored cylinder, these moving parts need to mate to function properly. Looking at the ground surface of a new brake pad and rotor [new or used] under magnification, the surface looks like a bunch of hills and valleys. Until these parts are mated, only the peaks are making contact. If you try to use the brakes hard before they bed-in, you run the risk of over-heating and carbonizing the surface of the pad. This means performance will suffer dramatically and a glazed surface will likely result...you'll probably hear your brakes complaining via a loud annoying brake squeal. Before installing new pads, clean the brake rotors by using medium grit sandpaper on the pad track followed by wiping them down with a clean rag and acetone or denatured alcohol. Allow some time to bed-in your new brakes by following the manufacturer recommendations and you'll find they'll work much better.
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Old June 11th, 2013, 10:12 AM   #16
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Racing Brake Pad | Bed-In Procedures

Racing is serious business. Virtually everyone involved with racing spends tremendous time, energy and money in the pursuit of checkered flag. So assuming you want the best from your brakes, please take the time to read and follow these simple procedures:

For best results, prepare the disc rotors by using a Rotor Hone (BT-RH10.0) or glass-beading the brake swept area. This is particularly important if you are switching from a sintered metal pad as the copper deposition layer burnished into the surface of the rotor can be a barrier to allowing a carbon/metallic pad from bedding-in properly. Maintain your rotors by rotor honing or glass-beading every time you replace your brake pads. On liquid cleaners; Acetone or denatured alcohol on a clean shop towel is recommended, Do not use an aerosol brake cleaner as many leave a residue that promotes brake pad glazing. Take this opportunity to check for fluid leaks. For best performance, we recommend changing your brake fluid every 2-3 events with a premium fluid (more frequently in humid climates).
Please note: DOT 5 Silicone brake fluid is not recommended.
Heavy braking should be avoided until the new linings are fully seated across the entire mating surface. A visual inspection may be required. Scored discs will require substantially greater bed-in time, reduce overall stopping power and are potentially dangerous. We recommend replacing badly scored or distorted rotors with our advanced composition Ductile Iron or Stainless full-floaters.
Initially, the brakes should be used lightly (roughly 60-70% of normal) but frequently. As you feel the brakes come in, follow this with progressively harder braking to maximum pressure with momentary cool-down between applications. The goal here is to impart an even transfer film layer from the new friction material to the operating surface of the rotor. Do not try braking hard until they do and you are reasonably certain this is accomplished (usually 3-7 laps).
If a fall-off in performance is experienced due to heavy braking prior to the new pads being fully bed-in, it is important to allow the brakes to cool down before continuing. A “glazed” surface condition can usually be easily remedied by either utilizing the Rotor Hone or bead-blasting the brake swept area to the remove the burnished deposition layer left by the previous pads. Remove the glazed surface of the pads friction face, reinstall and repeat bed-in procedure.
CHRONIC GLAZING: Characterized by a very firm brake lever with very poor braking performance regardless how hard the lever is applied. Most motorcycle manufacturers utilize a heat-treated surface hardening process on their stainless steel rotors in an effort to help them survive with sintered metal pads. This sometimes creates a problem with semi-metallic compounds during bed-in. If glazing persists, glass beading of the brake swept area can eliminate the problem by thoroughly cleaning the surface and attenuating the heat-treatment with a more compatible shot-peened version. As a reminder, it is always a requirement to thoroughly clean the rotors with Acetone or denatured alcohol after using a rotor hone or bead-blasting. Reinstall de-glazed pads and allow 1-2 laps to bring up to operating temperature, the results should be most satisfying.


SAFETY INSTRUCTIONS

Although all modern Ferodo Ltd friction formulations are non-asbestos, it is prudent and recommended to take adequate precautions while working with any manufacturers friction materials. Please observe the following:

Operate in a well ventilated area and avoid creating dust.
Machining (not required in proper application) should only be carried out using approved dust extraction equipment.
When fitting brake components, use appropriate dust extraction equipment or a damp cloth to remove dust.
Do not use an air hose or brush to remove dust.
Dampen dust, place it in a properly closed receptacle and dispose of safely.
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Old June 11th, 2013, 10:14 AM   #17
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Is your fork and/or front brace bent? I was getting some drag from that. After installing new forks and a straight brace, the drag went away.
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Old June 11th, 2013, 10:31 AM   #18
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Is your fork and/or front brace bent? I was getting some drag from that. After installing new forks and a straight brace, the drag went away.
^this as well^
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Old June 11th, 2013, 10:59 AM   #19
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...........but as soon as I come in after a session after all of this sure enough its dragging horribly again. any help or ideas would be appreciated.
It seems to be heat related.

Maybe the seals are not sliding well enough after a heat up cycle?

Maybe your master cylinder could use a stronger return spring?

Great posts, Rojo; thanks !!!
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Old August 5th, 2013, 10:55 PM   #20
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@jconolty

did you fix it?

Mine are dragging and its driving me crazy.
Bike has only done 2300km so it must have been dragging the old pads before the change.
Have done everything except take the pistons out to see if I got dirt in there when I pushed the pistons back to put new pads in at the track.

Its not the aftermarket levers, does it without the lever on,
New pads
Gallons of new fluid been pumped thru,
disc is not warped
Caliper floats free on its greased pins
pad locating pins are smooth
compensating port in the master cylinder is not blocked
cap vents not blocked


Any more tips that I have overlooked?
got 48 hrs to fix it before the race weekend and its seriously slowing me down.

Last futzed with by Aufitt; August 6th, 2013 at 12:44 AM.
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Old August 6th, 2013, 03:44 AM   #21
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Are your forks twisted?
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Old August 6th, 2013, 05:33 AM   #22
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Hey Justin, good to see you got the bike back on the track. As far as the brakes try coming in off the track and crack the bleeder open. This will tell you if residual pressure in the line is keeping the pads applied. I've had to rebuild the master cylinder on both race bikes for this reason.
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Old August 12th, 2013, 06:02 AM   #23
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thanks for all of the tips guys. I ended up flipping the rotor, bled the system, and changed to DP race pads and I no longer have drag! im thinking the rotor was the main cause of the problem
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Old August 19th, 2013, 01:18 PM   #24
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Going to try that with mine as well, mega drag mode
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 07:26 PM   #25
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This worked for me. The rods that hold pads were coated
With buildup. Made the holes in the pads a little bigger not by drilling, just scraping. Made sure rods were smooth and polished and
Fit through pads first. Lightly sanded the pad where contacts spring. Spring
Polished as well. No trouble installing rods through pads. Smooth. Everytthiing needs to be highly polished and no buildup. When the rods were tightened no noticable binding. Easy to turn through pads on caliper This solved my problem

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Old August 26th, 2013, 07:49 AM   #26
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Wish I could give a good answer but took it to the sponsors shop half a day before heading of to the races as it did my head in.

'Your Brakes are fixed Aufitt'
"WTF was wrong"
'They're fixed ok'
"Yeah but how!?"
'Look they are f'n FIXED, you better hurry up and get it loaded, want us to charge you for it!?'

"Cheers guys, I wont ask "

lol.
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