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Old November 25th, 2021, 12:05 AM   #161
DannoXYZ
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Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
I am still completely confuzed as to how and why both plug ins to the back brake light switch have 12VDC going to them....
...
it's my understanding from studying the wireing diagram that the white wire should be "hot" and the brown one should be grounded through the bulb.
...
I guess the thing to do now is trace the stop light bulb power back to the battery and try and find out WHY the brown wire has power in it when it shouldn't....
....
....
Bob... system is POSITIVE ground with +12v terminal of battery connected to ground. Trace cable from battery positive cable and see where it goes. Normal to have constant +12v on both terminals of bulbs when not lit. Then switch connects other side to battery -neg of battery.
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Old November 25th, 2021, 01:10 AM   #162
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NO, I got it Danno ! thanks anyway it was the front brake switch being stuck ON... and it powers the brown wire to light the stop light... the rear brake switch powers the brown wire too when the switch is closed so why it confused me is kind'a silly it shouldn't have ! I un plugged the front brake switch and the back one works great now....like it should....
....
I have been trying to bleed the back brake but so far no cigar !
I've gotten alot of crap out but not much fluid at all... i am not sure but I think the PO put a new washer and bolt in the brake fluid reservoir and I think the washer is covering the holes to let the fluid go into the line ! ...
as dirty as that stuff is ( looks like mineral oil here too! ) I think it would be a great idea to just pull it off flush the reservoir real good and make sure fluid flows through it, and go ahead and rebuild that brake cylinder.
the stuff that came out is not clear but dark brown and air bubbles only a very small amount of fresh fluid has made the trek through the cylinder...
....
I didn't want to get into the rebuilding of a brake master cylinder but it looks like I have no choice...
what I did is just like you do on a car and that is pump it up, hold it down and then open the bleeder valve and let the pressure escape and repeat until your sick of doing it , and then do it some more, this only yielded a tiny amount of fluid I used more fluid putting it in the can to cover the end of the hose than I got through it.
even if I didn't get air out of it I should be getting fluid.... I may need to take the caliper off to get out all the air as the brake line forms an "S" just in front of the caliper !!!!.... typical on bikes now days I guess, but that is poor planning in my book !
I am tempted to see if I hooked up my handy dandy vacuum tester if I could suck fluid from the reservoir or not.... I bet I couldn't ...
it just acts like there is no fluid getting to it....
and it's not leaking a single drop even with all that peddle work so that kind'a tells me something is up.
( i bet it's that big washer in the fluid reservoir !)
....
later all !
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Old November 25th, 2021, 05:47 AM   #163
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I decided to hook up my vacuum pump/brake bleeder kit to the bike and try to suck out the old cruddy fluid....it's supposed to do that real well...maybe if I can get that stuff out of there and good fluid into it, it'll work ....
it COULD happen ! LOL.....
probably the reason it isn't pumping worth a darn is the check valve in the master cylinder is stuck open with crud,,,if I can suck it out with the vacuum pump it may well start working and I won't have to take it off till I replace brake lines... I plan on pumping about 2 reservoirs through the master cylinder to clean it up... but I do not plan on using kerosene in the system ! which is recommended by the manual.... as you can never get it all out of there !
....
so we'll see if the vacuum pump saves the day tomorrow...
....
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Old November 25th, 2021, 05:59 AM   #164
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... but I do not plan on using kerosene in the system ! which is recommended by the manual.... as you can never get it all out of there !
If the manual says to use kerosene to clean the system, what type of brake fluid does it say to use? Is the the Triumph manual?
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Old November 25th, 2021, 06:00 AM   #165
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NO, I got it Danno ! thanks anyway it was the front brake switch being stuck ON... and it powers the brown wire to light the stop light... the rear brake switch powers the brown wire too when the switch is closed so why it confused me is kind'a silly it shouldn't have ! I un plugged the front brake switch and the back one works great now....like it should....
....
I have been trying to bleed the back brake but so far no cigar !
I've gotten alot of crap out but not much fluid at all... i am not sure but I think the PO put a new washer and bolt in the brake fluid reservoir and I think the washer is covering the holes to let the fluid go into the line ! ...
as dirty as that stuff is ( looks like mineral oil here too! ) I think it would be a great idea to just pull it off flush the reservoir real good and make sure fluid flows through it, and go ahead and rebuild that brake cylinder.
the stuff that came out is not clear but dark brown and air bubbles only a very small amount of fresh fluid has made the trek through the cylinder...
....
I didn't want to get into the rebuilding of a brake master cylinder but it looks like I have no choice...
what I did is just like you do on a car and that is pump it up, hold it down and then open the bleeder valve and let the pressure escape and repeat until your sick of doing it , and then do it some more, this only yielded a tiny amount of fluid I used more fluid putting it in the can to cover the end of the hose than I got through it.
even if I didn't get air out of it I should be getting fluid.... I may need to take the caliper off to get out all the air as the brake line forms an "S" just in front of the caliper !!!!.... typical on bikes now days I guess, but that is poor planning in my book !
I am tempted to see if I hooked up my handy dandy vacuum tester if I could suck fluid from the reservoir or not.... I bet I couldn't ...
it just acts like there is no fluid getting to it....
and it's not leaking a single drop even with all that peddle work so that kind'a tells me something is up.
( i bet it's that big washer in the fluid reservoir !)
....
later all !
Bob......
Here little tip Bob for your rear brake hose get fuel injection hoses "Gate 27341" which has plastics polyethylene inner core and stainless steel fuel injection hose clamps and so they don't rust Note: DON'T USED WORM DRIVE Clamps.
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Old November 25th, 2021, 06:16 AM   #166
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Quote:
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If the manual says to use kerosene what type of brake fluid does it say to use?
It standard back then would have been Dot 3 or 4 Fluid as Dot 5 was very expensive back then, however I would thoroughly clean it and switch it over to Dot 5 that's my recommendation
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Old November 25th, 2021, 07:15 AM   #167
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If the manual says to use kerosene to clean the system, what type of brake fluid does it say to use? Is the the Triumph manual?
Lockheed brake fluid.... and I never heard of the stuff.. i think most everyone uses dot3 ....
....
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Old November 25th, 2021, 07:28 AM   #168
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Lockheed brake fluid.... and I never heard of the stuff.. i think most everyone uses dot3 ....
....
Bob......
Lockheed Brake Fluid or aka Dot 4 which is Glycol Ether/Borate Ester composition that just offers a higher boiling point that all and is fine to be used in Dot 3 system.
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Old November 25th, 2021, 07:48 AM   #169
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shspvr:
that is an option... as that is what I put in it when I got home and found the reservoir completely empty.... and it has not gone down much even with all the bleeding I have done....
the way I understand it brake fluid is supposed to be void of oxygen...for a reason... oxygen compresses. you don't want that but the types of fluid do definitely matter as some fluids will eat the o rings right out of a brake system
in a few minutes flat ! many brake fluids are NOT backwards compatible
it's the same with transmission fluid ...just put dextron in a ford transmission to see the results.... their both automatic transmission fluids but the idiots made the seals react to the competitors fluids of choice.... such dirty and underhanded tactics were all over ford and chevy back in the day now they work together to screw you.... and you have no idea what they've done behind closed doors ! that's why I drive foreign make cars !
....
a new seal kit costs $16.00 for the Triumphs rear master cylinder ...( all that is is the O rings and cups. no check valve or piston.)
which isn't bad but they sell the internal workings as a new cylinder that is $98.00.... or a completely new one for $208.00 bracket and all and it's Stainless steel...
so if it's scored at all you just as well buy a new one.
because an honest to god Kit doesn't exist !

....
my options are limited, but I really don't think the master cylinder is as good as dead yet... I took a wild gamble by putting dot 5 brake fluid in it... but there are NO leaks and it's had plenty of time to eat the o rings if it was going to so I think I am safe there....
....
i'll see what the vacuum tool does for me and go from there...
i expect it to build up alot of pressure and do nothing... and if it does that I'll take the entire unit off ... and tear it apart.
....the PO replaced the rear brake line last year and he just put on a front brake line about a week before I bought it.... I don't think the rear brake has worked sense if you want the truth... there are new pads front and rear as well... he couldn't start it so he couldn't ride it so it was time to sell it .
I got it started at his place but only barely the slipping clutch made that real hard !
.....
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Old November 25th, 2021, 08:27 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
shspvr:
that is an option... as that is what I put in it when I got home and found the reservoir completely empty.... and it has not gone down much even with all the bleeding I have done....
the way I understand it brake fluid is supposed to be void of oxygen...for a reason... oxygen compresses. you don't want that but the types of fluid do definitely matter as some fluids will eat the o rings right out of a brake system
in a few minutes flat ! many brake fluids are NOT backwards compatible
it's the same with transmission fluid ...just put dextron in a ford transmission to see the results.... their both automatic transmission fluids but the idiots made the seals react to the competitors fluids of choice.... such dirty and underhanded tactics were all over ford and chevy back in the day now they work together to screw you.... and you have no idea what they've done behind closed doors ! that's why I drive foreign make cars !
....
a new seal kit costs $16.00 for the Triumphs rear master cylinder ...( all that is is the O rings and cups. no check valve or piston.)
which isn't bad but they sell the internal workings as a new cylinder that is $98.00.... or a completely new one for $208.00 bracket and all and it's Stainless steel...
so if it's scored at all you just as well buy a new one.
because an honest to god Kit doesn't exist !

....
my options are limited, but I really don't think the master cylinder is as good as dead yet... I took a wild gamble by putting dot 5 brake fluid in it... but there are NO leaks and it's had plenty of time to eat the o rings if it was going to so I think I am safe there....
....
i'll see what the vacuum tool does for me and go from there...
i expect it to build up alot of pressure and do nothing... and if it does that I'll take the entire unit off ... and tear it apart.
....the PO replaced the rear brake line last year and he just put on a front brake line about a week before I bought it.... I don't think the rear brake has worked sense if you want the truth... there are new pads front and rear as well... he couldn't start it so he couldn't ride it so it was time to sell it .
I got it started at his place but only barely the slipping clutch made that real hard !
.....
Bob....
P.S. I refer to reservoir brake hose it self should be replacement to cylinder with fuel injection hoses because the hoses back then have a tendency to have rubber flaking off.

The thing is your primary cup seal which is back bleeding into large intake port hole normally the primary seal cup it's supposed to seal off right after compensating port it that really super tiny hole next to the stud for fluid supply and P.S. the brake cylinder dose have a check valve because with it has maintain a 2psi static pressure on the brake system or it will not work right.

Scott bright the piston

Being both rear and front user the same cylinder
The Yellow it check valve
The Red primary cup seal
The Green secondary cup ring
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Old November 25th, 2021, 08:43 AM   #171
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BTW...I checked the manual and the schematic that it shows for the rear brake fluid reservoir it shows a big washer under the bolt.... no holes in it either...
I bet it's held off from covering those holes by the plastic of the reservoir....
so unless that hole is plugged...... fluid should be going down that line.
,.... hummmm
taking off the line at the master cylinder should allow the reservoir to drip empty...if it doesn't that's my problem !.....

....
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Old November 25th, 2021, 08:53 AM   #172
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You have remove the Hex bolt where line feeds in to the cylinder in order to see the holes
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Old November 25th, 2021, 06:13 PM   #173
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Right, but in this case there is a remote cap on the Master cylinder instead of
the reservoir ...it just has a push on fitting and hose clamp... AND a hex head screw to hold that on with...
yep it's those holes that I suspect are plugged up. or the same ones in the reservoir....a foot or so away under the seat.
....
I just got up......where's the Coffee ???
LOL
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Old November 25th, 2021, 06:31 PM   #174
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Oh I see your is setup like this so it share the same reservoir as front brake reservoir
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Old November 25th, 2021, 08:51 PM   #175
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No it has it's own separate reservoir under the seat....
...and yah that's the picture of the unit. but it does not come out of it's hiding place very easily....
I took some pictures for ya... gott'a mess with them first , or they will be sideways.... but I found the problem the reservoir was completely plugged with crystalized stuff and the aluminum holder is all pitted I need a new one....
...the o ring seal will never seal to that thing again...
...

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Old November 25th, 2021, 09:01 PM   #176
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here's what I found a bit ago...
as you can see the corrosion is terrible ! and the line connecting the reservoir with the master cylinder came off in pieces...
....
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File Type: jpg r.master holder01A.jpg (89.9 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg R.master holder02A.jpg (110.2 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg R.master Rez01A.jpg (114.2 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg R.MasterRez02A.jpg (97.8 KB, 2 views)
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Old November 25th, 2021, 09:02 PM   #177
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how about that...it worked first try ! imagen that !
LOL....
the reservoir, 3rd and 4th pic. attaches to that ate up round aluminum rod via that bolt I was talking about with the large washer under it.... I was right it did not block it off there is a height difference.
but that cup is supposed to seal to that round rod and hold the brake fluid and send it down to the master cylinder.....
age has not been kind to these parts at all.... I will replace the rod as the surface must be smooth to seal.
...
to get the master cylinder out to clean it ,is going to be a long drawn out ordeal... I have to take off the rear tire
to get the room to get the MC out... to take the tire off and out of there I need to remove the rear fender....
....I am wondering if I took the rear shock off could I lower the swing arm enough to get the tire out of the fender...
...I don't want to take off the fender if I don't have too ! LOL....
...who would have thought the speedo cable goes to the rear wheel ? that's a new one on me !
anyway.... now I wait again for parts....
but I am reluctant to order parts till I get the Master cylinder off and inspect it...I may well need a new one !
but what the heck I know I need the reservoir holder... I just as well order it now as it takes a week or more to get to me from Denver Co.
.....

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Old November 26th, 2021, 12:40 AM   #178
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ok i ORDERED a new reservoir, and a new master cylinder to the tune of $180 bucks (and the hose that connects them)....
I wasn't going to buy a new master cylinder unless I needed it but I got thinking...it's the brakes and they MUST work and work good ! your life depends on it .... so I thought what the heck it's only money and went ahead and ordered it.
....
I was just going to re use the old reservoir and replace the mounting rod ....
BUT ... they were out of stock and the only thing they had to replace it was the entire thing....so I got it too...$70.00....
....
so by the time it gets here I should have the old one off and be ready to put the new one on and put the wheel back on.....
....it's sure nice to have money in the bank to do all this spending that I have done but it won't last very long if I keep that up !!!!
that money i have been spending is from the sell of the Ranch...my inheritance...
so I am fixing my toys the best I can WHILE i can ! LOL
....
later all !
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Old November 26th, 2021, 07:48 AM   #179
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Sorry long day of eating and getting **** face any way some of that corrosion is cause by water and or possible battery acid.
The crystalized in the reservoir is because of Dot 3/4 brake fluid is hygroscopic, that is it absorbs moisture from the atmosphere.
If the brake fluid is not changed it will continue to absorb moisture, and eventually it will crystallize and form deposits inside the brake system that can cause the seals to fail and components to seize.
That why you want switch over to Dot 5 and best of all it doesn't eat up the paint.
Note: If I you I flush out brake lines and rebuild caliper and clean out the cross piston passage or just replace it with a new set EBC pads.
Yup your life depends on those back brake work to if the front failure.
Keep in mind the better shape it in the more value it being so as I see it money well spent.
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Old November 26th, 2021, 09:16 AM   #180
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I didn't know that about dot 3&4 brake fluid...thank you.
....
I plan to flush the front disk system as well.... the switch for the rear brake light is optional to me as I don't use the front brake much on a bike like that...
but it would be nice to have the switch working, so I will see if I can repair it when I get done with the back part...
...
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Old November 26th, 2021, 05:23 PM   #181
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Military is biggest user of DOT-5 silicone fluid for its high-temp operating limits and durability (doesn't absorb water). Can go for 5-yrs between changes easily. However, it's not compatible with DOT-3/4 fluid. So entire system needs to flushed and completely rinsed out with alcohol before DOT-5 can be used. Much easier to install on systems that specify DOT-5 as factory fill.

Nowadays, there's DOT-5.1 which is compatible with DOT-3/4. Although benefits of DOT-4/5.1 will be lost on this bike, but you'll get all disadvantages anyway. Primary benefit of 4/5.1 is higher boiling point. Beneficial for track bikes that see constant maximum braking many times per minute for hours on end. If you're not experiencing brake-fade on regular basis, you won't notice difference going to DOT-4/5.1 fluid.

However, those are even more hygroscopic than DOT-3, meaning they'll absorb water-vapour out of air even faster than DOT-3. Meaning yearly fluid change is mandatory. I change DOT-4 on my race-bike at beginning and end of each season (2x per year). Stay with DOT-3 unless you're racing bike and/or have yearly fluid-change schedule.
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Old November 26th, 2021, 07:12 PM   #182
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well thanks Danno !
it sounds to me like dot 5 is the way to go mainly because of it's longevity...
and doesn't dissolve paint on contact. ( i like that part)
but it sounds like I'd have to flush the brake systems extremely well before using it.... sense I am putting in a completely new system in the back I don't see that as a problem about the only thing I am keeping is the hardware and the one hose to the caliper....
.... I had a major fight with that bike today... getting the old master cylinder OFF..... some idiot put the bolt in backwards ( probably from the factory as that bracket is only removable at frame level) I had to cut the bolt off to get it out
then the trouble started with the master cylinder ! the tiny allen type grub screw that locks the cylinder to the bracket wouldn't turn ( steel and aluminum don't mix) then the ball end snapped off in the allen head... and would not come out and I played with trying to get it out for over an hour, finally I decided to drill it out... after 2 hrs of drilling sharpening bits and drilling some more I finally broke through off to the side ..it took out about half the grub screw.... with that I tried to unscrew the master cylinder from the bracket.... it finally broke free but of course it screwed up the threads all the way out I cleaned it up got the grub screw all the way out and threaded it back in in an attempt to straighten the threads a bit... that helped some...
i have no tap that big... I should replace the bracket but the only one that is available is the entire new kit at a whopping $200 bucks ... I am sure I can get the old bracket to hold the new master cylinder so I'll try that first.
... I am glad I ordered the $94.00 master cylinder after looking at this one ....it is full of junk and all plugged up....
...I will need to replace the bolt I had to cut off to get the darn thing out of there .... I know why they put the bolt in backwards though because the head of the bolt just barely clears the rear foot peg attachment frame...
really close quarters on this thing !... but I'll put the bolt in lock-tight the nut and cut off any overhang of the bolt past the nut so it won't hit the frame.
... and that will make removal in the future alot easier.
...I can barely get my fingers in there to adjust the peddle play... and I can't with the tire on.....so the question arises then How do you adjust the back brake peddle play ? you remove the tire again.... or get used to it the way it is ! .... that is worse than Ludacris !
... and getting that tire off was a major knock down drag out battle...
I finally won though with my Kids help to keep the bike from falling over !
seems you have to put it on the center stand and then raise it an additional 3" so the tire will clear the fender.... who's idea was that ???? that is what the manual says !!!
so I raised it with the floor jack and with the Kid balancing it I got the tire out, and lowered it back down... to put the tire back on I gott'a do that again
..... how stupid can you get ? obviously the home owner was not supposed to change his own tires on this bike.
....
I need concrete anchor bolts in the floor and a front chock for the front wheel
to do this by myself ! or a HF bike lift and move the bike to the back of the lift so i can take the tire off...
totally ridiculous ! the Rancher must have used his shop crane !
LOL....
...
anyway progress was made even if it was extremely frustrating...
...
I think I'll have a Beer !
HAHAHAHAH
Bob.......
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Old November 27th, 2021, 02:04 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Military is biggest user of DOT-5 silicone fluid for its high-temp operating limits and durability (doesn't absorb water). Can go for 5-yrs between changes easily. However, it's not compatible with DOT-3/4 fluid. So entire system needs to flushed and completely rinsed out with alcohol before DOT-5 can be used. Much easier to install on systems that specify DOT-5 as factory fill.

Nowadays, there's DOT-5.1 which is compatible with DOT-3/4. Although benefits of DOT-4/5.1 will be lost on this bike, but you'll get all disadvantages anyway. Primary benefit of 4/5.1 is higher boiling point. Beneficial for track bikes that see constant maximum braking many times per minute for hours on end. If you're not experiencing brake-fade on regular basis, you won't notice difference going to DOT-4/5.1 fluid.

However, those are even more hygroscopic than DOT-3, meaning they'll absorb water-vapour out of air even faster than DOT-3. Meaning yearly fluid change is mandatory. I change DOT-4 on my race-bike at beginning and end of each season (2x per year). Stay with DOT-3 unless you're racing bike and/or have yearly fluid-change schedule.
DOT-5.1 was meant for ABS system
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Old November 27th, 2021, 02:31 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by shspvr View Post
DOT-5.1 was meant for ABS system
When was ABS brakes 1st used?
When was DOT-5.1 fluid developed?
What makes DOT-5.1 different than DOT-3/4?
What makes DOT-5 different than DOT-3/4/5.1?

some background info:
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD1010795.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ity_properties
https://rc.library.uta.edu/uta-ir/bi...pdf?sequence=1
https://mossmotoring.com/brake-fluid...-british-cars/
https://www.venhill.co.uk/news/post/...u-need-to-know

While DOT-5.1 was developed decades after ABS was created, it has low-viscosity high-temp performance characteristics that make it suitable for use in ABS systems, it was not created solely for that application. Can be used on all braking-systems requiring high-temp performance that has sufficiently frequent fluid-replacement schedule to offset its higher hygroscopic nature.
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Old November 27th, 2021, 03:36 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
When was ABS brakes 1st used?
When was DOT-5.1 fluid developed?
What makes DOT-5.1 different than DOT-3/4?
What makes DOT-5 different than DOT-3/4/5.1?
ABS it self was invented 1971 by Fiat and first used in 1978 in Mercedes-Benz even my 1988 Chevy C2500 2WD has ABS but it for rear brakes.
I think DOT-5.1 Fluid was first used around 2014/5 in ABS system like heavy duty 3/4, 1 ton Trucks, Motorhome, etc that tow a lot of weight.
Think of 5.1 as a modified blend version of glycol based of DOT-4 fluid but meets all DOT-5 silicone-based fluid standards which is still compatible with DOT-3/4 but with Dry Boiling Point 260C / 500F and Wet Boiling Point 180C / 356F just like DOT-5.
The reason why you can't use DOT-5 in ABS system as will it start causing foaming in fluid with silicone fluid because of the way ABS system work so new improved Glycol ether / borate ester DOT-5.1 was born.

I don't know if today Motorcycle with ABS is using DOT 5.1 Been I haven't work on one with the system
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Old November 27th, 2021, 06:18 PM   #186
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interesting stuff about brake fluids guys I've found it very educational !
still it looks like dot 5 is the best for me ... I don't have any problems with fading brakes due to heat so I'll stick with dot 5
...
I went to Harbor freight this morning and came back with a motorcycle lift
it's their $129.00 one, hydraulic and it went together in a snap and works like a charm.... problem now is how to get it UNDER the triumph with the rear wheel off and main stand down .... that poses a problem ! LOL
I think I'll get the kids help again and raise it up the way I did last time and slip the wheel back on and put the axle through it... then... take it back down
and fold up the center stand and then use the motorcycle jack to jack it up
and then take the back tire off again...
.... that way I can go high enough to get the tire on and off with only me doing it ! LOL
....
anyway... my rear brake light switch came that I ordered a week ago...
but I'll save it for now in my Triumph box... as the old one works just fine now that I cleaned the insides of it... so I have a spare now...
...
I was cleaning up the old parts I am going to re-use and just puttering around in the shop today.... picked up a few tools and more or less just surveyed the carnage.... Poor bike... I hope she doesn't hold a grudge!
she hasn't been that tore apart sense I got her ! but it's for a good cause she's getting a new rear brake system !
....
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Old November 27th, 2021, 07:25 PM   #187
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My Moto Guzzi had that problem to some extent. Following the manual's instructions, I'd put it on the center stand and lean it to one side. My wife would then pull the wheel off the rear gearbox spline, let it down, and roll it out the back. Then I'd tilt it back vertical.

Any chance you could do it that way, leaning it to one side, and remove the wheel with the help of on assistant? It was very controlled and easy.
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Old November 27th, 2021, 07:30 PM   #188
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Harley used DOT-5 in their bikes 20-yrs ago before switching to DOT-4 when adopting ABS. DOT-5 really has advantages of high boiling-point along with long life-span, 5-yrs not uncommon. I've heard examples of 10-12yrs.

I don't think there's any OEM manufacturer that uses DOT-5.1 on street bikes, with or without ABS. Its high cost and short lifespan makes it suitable only for racing vehicles with frequent maintenance. Such as KTM's Africa Rally race-bike or Formulae-1 cars. Or with racing brake-upgrades such as Brembo for Porsches, Ferraris or pure race-bikes. I used it on my race-bike 1st season and it only lasted 1/2-season before needing replacement.

Going to Super DOT 4+ fluid makes much more sense with higher boiling point of 316C (600F). It'll go full year before needing fluid changes. Even BMW's limited edition HP4 race-bike with 3000-mile between needing engine-rebuild uses DOT-4 fluid.

Even so, if you're not racing bike, you won't notice difference and can use DOT-3 fluid for 2-yr life-span.

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Old November 28th, 2021, 02:24 AM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
My Moto Guzzi had that problem to some extent. Following the manual's instructions, I'd put it on the center stand and lean it to one side. My wife would then pull the wheel off the rear gearbox spline, let it down, and roll it out the back. Then I'd tilt it back vertical.

Any chance you could do it that way, leaning it to one side, and remove the wheel with the help of on assistant? It was very controlled and easy.
humm...i haven't tried that... that should work though, as leaning it would give the rear tire quite a bit more room to clear the fender !
THANKS Jim !
...I think I'll get it on that nice BIG stand though and be done with it.
I just went out and showed my Kid the new bike jack and if met with alot of approval ! LOL
....
once under the bike and holding it up I can remove the handle easy
and that will allow me to get around the bike on the lathe side....
( I need a bigger shop ! )
...
later !
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Old November 28th, 2021, 07:55 AM   #190
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I know Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki & Yamaha has been using it as far back the 80's but many bikes from 70/80/90/00's etc was label as DOT-3 or 4 on master cylinder reservoir lid

Keep in mind DannoXYZ it has to be readily available in are local auto parts store this is generally where 95% of the people go instead of a reg motorcycle shop and shop here in Oklahoma don't carry Super DOT 4+

I have seen DOT-5 system that been more then 15 year old and never ever had their brake fluid changes unlike DOT-3/4 especially in bikes, cars and trucks from the 70s, 80s and 90s even few case from 2000 it looked like coarse sand inside the reservoir after sitting for more 10 years what really surprise me it that both of my 05 and 07 Ninja 250 req DOT-4 and don't like they have ever been open up.

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Old November 28th, 2021, 09:40 AM   #191
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Well, today ( last night actually) I cleaned the shop and took in the Bike lift
I put it under the front of the engine and got as far back as I could with it and then used the floor screw jack to keep the bike level as it went up... got it up a long way slipped the tire under there and put the axle through the wheel and let it back down...
folded the centerstand and moved the bike lift further back... found some perfect blocks
(big lead diver weights) and used them to reach the frame.... then raised the bike again
and took the back tire back out from under the bike and now I am all set to start re- assembly of the brake system.... but I must wait for the parts to get here...
... and my shop heater isn't doing much anymore I guess I gott'a get me a shop heater
after all.... been into that heater 3 times but I can't get the thermostat to work any better than on a extremely low setting... so fooie on it !
....
I finished cleaning all the old break parts except the rear caliper...but I really don't want to mess with that for fear of screwing it up I'll blast out as much of the Dot 3 brake fluid as I can with WD-40 and call that good enough....
the brake shoes are new...i mean NEW there isn't any mileage on them so the back brake hasn't worked at all....
...
later !
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Old November 28th, 2021, 02:20 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shspvr View Post
I have seen DOT-5 system that been more then 15 year old and never ever had their brake fluid changes unlike DOT-3/4 especially in bikes, cars and trucks from the 70s, 80s and 90s even few case from 2000 it looked like coarse sand inside the reservoir after sitting for more 10 years what really surprise me it that both of my 05 and 07 Ninja 250 req DOT-4 and don't like they have ever been open up.
Nice thing about bike brakes is they're sealed compared to autos. Keeps brake-fluid free of water-vapour for longer.

I'm major fan of DOT-5 fluid too. Just annoyed at amount of cleaning needed for switcheroo. Used it on my Supra track-car back in '80-90s. Even when brake-rotors were glowing red-hot, I wasn't getting any brake fade! Here's different car entering Corkscrew @ Laguna Seca.

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Old November 28th, 2021, 04:52 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Nice thing about bike brakes is they're sealed compared to autos. Keeps brake-fluid free of water-vapour for longer.

I'm major fan of DOT-5 fluid too. Just annoyed at amount of cleaning needed for switcheroo. Used it on my Supra track-car back in '80-90s. Even when brake-rotors were glowing red-hot, I wasn't getting any brake fade! Here's different car entering Corkscrew @ Laguna Seca.
That what I was thinking it was still factory sealed so it never got open to air
so being front shock are leaking and in need of rebuild and fresh fork oil I flush out the brake fluid along fresh set brake pads and replace the 11 year tire soon as I get done with all painting
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Old December 1st, 2021, 02:13 PM   #194
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Today I fired up the Ninja 250R and it did not run very good at all...
also started the TT250 and then worked on getting the black paint off the holder for the rear master cylinder.... just getting stuff CLEAN again while I wait for parts.
I tried to take the cable off the speedometer hook up to the rear wheel on the Triumph
but I could not get it off with a short 6" crescent wrench I manager to bust off the ear
on the housing that the cable is attached to... so I put a pair of needle nose vice grips
on the connector and it just slipped in the vice grips... so rather than risk destroying the thing I decided to leave it alone. LOL
.... I hope my parts get here soon... I think I heard the Triumph whimpering in her dismantled state on the lift..... LOL....
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Old December 2nd, 2021, 08:18 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
Today I fired up the Ninja 250R and it did not run very good at all...
also started the TT250 and then worked on getting the black paint off the holder for the rear master cylinder.... just getting stuff CLEAN again while I wait for parts.
I tried to take the cable off the speedometer hook up to the rear wheel on the Triumph
but I could not get it off with a short 6" crescent wrench I manager to bust off the ear
on the housing that the cable is attached to... so I put a pair of needle nose vice grips
on the connector and it just slipped in the vice grips... so rather than risk destroying the thing I decided to leave it alone. LOL
.... I hope my parts get here soon... I think I heard the Triumph whimpering in her dismantled state on the lift..... LOL....
Bob......
My day was removing the heck up Main Wiring Harness and replace with one from 05 parts bike and straighten the shifter foot peg and both mufflers bracket and one handlebar and grabbing some other things to paint from body parts even mange to buy two good side panel off eBay.

What
Quote:
I manager to bust off the ear
Part
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Old December 2nd, 2021, 11:48 AM   #196
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oh, just a tiny piece of aluminum on the speedometer housing on the rear wheel
just snapped off like butter.... it's supposed to hold the inner connector where the cable connects to... but it is not there any more... so it can spin now if it wants to... i don't think it will, but it was one of those annoyances that shouldn't have happened as I didn't use that much force on it just trying to disconnect the speedo cable from it... I just wanted to clean it up some !
if need be I can replace the silly thing but I don't think having that ear gone is going to make it not work... we'll see.
....
according to TRACKING my parts should be here today and tomorrow.
USPS is slower than UPS or fed ex but a heck of alot cheaper !
....
Bob.....
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Old December 2nd, 2021, 12:11 PM   #197
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oh, just a tiny piece of aluminum on the speedometer housing on the rear wheel
just snapped off like butter.... it's supposed to hold the inner connector where the cable connects to... but it is not there any more... so it can spin now if it wants to... i don't think it will, but it was one of those annoyances that shouldn't have happened as I didn't use that much force on it just trying to disconnect the speedo cable from it... I just wanted to clean it up some !
if need be I can replace the silly thing but I don't think having that ear gone is going to make it not work... we'll see.
....
according to TRACKING my parts should be here today and tomorrow.
USPS is slower than UPS or fed ex but a heck of alot cheaper !
....
Bob.....
You get a photo of that could you post it here, so I know what refer to.
Yup it always that way after Thanksgiving and Black Friday sale
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Old December 2nd, 2021, 04:16 PM   #198
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LOL... Nah no photo on that... not worth the time ....
it's no biggy Honnest !
.... My parts came today ! I have the master cylinder on the holder and am ready to install it but I hit a snag... the adjustment rod does not fit inside the master cylinder ! evidently they changed the specks on it but the adjustment rod is about 1/8" too big in diameter ! it's not even close to fitting...
I came in here and made sure I was assembling it correctly and I was... it's just that the old rod that pushes on the brake does not fit in the newer master cylinder ... and they do not offer a new rod, but you can buy the entire assembly for close to $300 bucks ! .... Grrrr
but I have a plan.... I'll chuck it up in the lathe and trim the large area down to fit in the master cylinder and that should cure the problem...
but I shouldn't have to do that when I just spent $98.00 on the master cylinder that was supposed to be an exact copy of the original....even better as it is out of stainless steel not normal steel....
but...... that's the way it goes , first your money then your clothes ! LOL.....
...
how could they over look such a blatant screw up ...the petal adjustment rod can't even go into the master cylinder ! and therefore cannot pump the brakes ! .... I'll just trim it down on the lathe and be done with it.
but if I didn't have a lathe I'd be in a real fix that is for sure !
later !
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Old December 2nd, 2021, 04:25 PM   #199
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LOL... Nah no photo on that... not worth the time ....
it's no biggy Honnest !
.... My parts came today ! I have the master cylinder on the holder and am ready to install it but I hit a snag... the adjustment rod does not fit inside the master cylinder ! evidently they changed the specks on it but the adjustment rod is about 1/8" too big in diameter ! it's not even close to fitting...
I came in here and made sure I was assembling it correctly and I was... it's just that the old rod that pushes on the brake does not fit in the newer master cylinder ... and they do not offer a new rod, but you can buy the entire assembly for close to $300 bucks ! .... Grrrr
but I have a plan.... I'll chuck it up in the lathe and trim the large area down to fit in the master cylinder and that should cure the problem...
but I shouldn't have to do that when I just spent $98.00 on the master cylinder that was supposed to be an exact copy of the original....even better as it is out of stainless steel not normal steel....
but...... that's the way it goes , first your money then your clothes ! LOL.....
...
how could they over look such a blatant screw up ...the petal adjustment rod can't even go into the master cylinder ! and therefore cannot pump the brakes ! .... I'll just trim it down on the lathe and be done with it.
but if I didn't have a lathe I'd be in a real fix that is for sure !
later !
Bob.......
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Old December 2nd, 2021, 06:11 PM   #200
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LOL yah friday at 4:28pm.... the guy just wanted to punch out man !
all in all I got it working real good now... I trimmed down the adjuster rod to fit the outside of the hole and it went in about 1/4" and stopped I thought WTF !?
and started looking at it real close and the hole was a nice taper to the other end... so i fixed that with a size under a half inch drill bit and made it non tapered anymore ! LOL.... and that totally cured the problem it seams the specks on the old parts were alot looser back in those days as that is an original part ! LOL.....
.... I got to thinking about that, and the only way it would have worked originally was the adjustment rod was put into the holding bracket first and the master cylinder put on next.... that way the rod was captured.
it's totally unnecessary that it be captured because it cannot possibly escape
once its all assembled... but that probably why they did it that way....
....

so I assembled the unit one last time and put blue locktight on the master cylinder so it won't move ( the threads in the holder are chewed up fairly bad but it does seem do be on there real good ! )
I got the reservoir on there and noticed that the cap says use dot 3 brake fluid only...on it but I am not going to listen to that ...I am going to put in dot 5 as I am not going to do anything to the brakes for as long as I can get away with it ! ... I've flushed the 2 lines very good with carb cleaner and then wd-40 ...there should not be any residue of the old Dot 3 fluid left in there....... the calipers...that is another story... I just shot wd-40 in there and dumped all that out that I could get out and am calling that good enough
.... I'll be lucky if that rear caliper actually works if you want the truth !
as messed up as the master cylinder and reservoir were, it's really hard to say what the caliper looks like inside. ... it's bleed it and see, and if it works I got lucky... if it don't, I'll probably just replace the entire thing.
...
I used my new digital calipers on cutting the adjustment rod down and boy those are nice calipers !
....
but anyway I got the master cylinder ready to go back in for the rear brake now... and have the Reservoir for it on there as well. so I made some progress today...not much but some !
....
tomorrow I gott'a take the wife to go see her folks down in Redding
which is about 75 miles one way... I am not looking forward to that at all I'd rather be working on the bike ! LOL
....
Later !
Bob......
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