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Old April 4th, 2012, 01:45 PM   #1
jboyd12
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Question Carb problem... dies when on the gas

I changed the carbs and it seems to run fine but as soon as I get on the gas it dies out. Has anyone run into this problem before? What do you think it could be? Throttle linkages? Maybe its not jetted correctly? It revs up fine with the choke on, as soon as I take the choke off it idles, but once I give it gas it dies out. Also, the top center of the carb has a fitting with a vacuum hose that goes to it. I believe it is just a hose just for overflow but can anyone confirm? Does anyone have any pics of the routing of the vacuum hoses? I think mine might be routed differently.. Below, I labelled where the hoses go on the carb I have.


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Old April 4th, 2012, 01:51 PM   #2
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why did you change carbs? what jetting setup is in the carbs? what kind of intake/exhaust setup is on the bike?

it sounds like its not getting enough gas through the needle jet. maybe take them apart and clean the jets?

maybe your petcock is clogged
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Old April 4th, 2012, 04:34 PM   #3
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why did you change carbs? what jetting setup is in the carbs? what kind of intake/exhaust setup is on the bike?

it sounds like its not getting enough gas through the needle jet. maybe take them apart and clean the jets?

maybe your petcock is clogged
i changed the hoses to the way they were in this photo originally and that fixed the problem i guess there just want enough vacuum
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Old April 4th, 2012, 04:46 PM   #4
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interesting. @Nemesis might want to read this.
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Old April 4th, 2012, 06:02 PM   #5
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similar problem

Hey,

I got my bike out of storage today and it started up with no problems. I rode it home from where it was stored (20km) and parked it. About 2 hours later I started it again with the choke on and let it warm up until the rpms were at 3k. When I closed the choke and gave it gas the bike stalled. This kept happening for about 10 minutes and then eventually it started to run fine.

Tonight I had the exact same problem after starting. I really got rattled when I gave it gas turning left through the first instersection I went through and it stalled. Traffic had to stop. Every time I gave it gas the bike stalled. I opened the choke and rode out of the intersection. The problem went away after about 1km of riding.

Does anyone have a guess as to why the bike is stalling when I give it gas? It seems to be fine after about 10 minutes of riding. Thanks for any advice you can give.

*some background: I bought the bike (08 250r) used in the fall and put it away for the winter. The muffler is stock and the owner didn't mention anything about jetting the carbs.
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Old April 4th, 2012, 06:07 PM   #6
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A bottle of seafoam is my usual remedy for anything carbs lol...I'd advice you to run some seafoam through them, before take the carbs apart to inspect/clean them.

Might also be a good idea to check the tubes (vaccum and fuel line) for obstruction and/or leaks.
Good luck.
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Old April 4th, 2012, 06:17 PM   #7
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Isnt this what happened to kevins 250 at one point, It was like the diaprham or something was getting pinched.
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Old April 4th, 2012, 06:33 PM   #8
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Thanks for the advice guys. I'm pretty green when it comes to doing anything mechanical to my bike. I'll try the Seafoam. Based on a quick search, it will require removing the gas tank to get at the carbs?
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Old April 4th, 2012, 07:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jboyd12 View Post
Also, the top center of the carb has a fitting with a vacuum hose that goes to it. I believe it is just a hose just for overflow but can anyone confirm? Does anyone have any pics of the routing of the vacuum hoses? I think mine might be routed differently.. Below, I labelled where the hoses go on the carb I have.


The top center fitting is just for overflow, so you don't have to connect anything to it. As for the connections, the (unmodified) picture is correct (although you don't require the t-connection because you don't have CA emissions).
If you are worried about the carb not drawing enough vacuum for the petcock, simply turn the valve to PRI and the gas will flow freely.

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Old April 4th, 2012, 07:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjitsu View Post
Thanks for the advice guys. I'm pretty green when it comes to doing anything mechanical to my bike. I'll try the Seafoam. Based on a quick search, it will require removing the gas tank to get at the carbs?
If you read through my walkthrough real quick it shows how to remove everything to get to the carbs, just ignore the second half :-)

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...ht=efi+install
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Old July 10th, 2012, 06:39 AM   #11
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Question Gas tank whistling..? And other weird issues

A low whistling sound has been coming out of the gas tank for a while now just sitting in the garage. Its a low whine that lasts a couple seconds, stops, and then happens again a few minutes later. I was told that this is due to a gas cap vent, and that as gas is used, the tank pulls in air and that if my vent is crap or broken it will continue to suck in air after the bike is off. However, I opened the cap and left it ajar for about half an hour, but once I lock it up again, the sound will keep happening. I'm really confused as to why this continues to happen, I'm not leaking any fuel.

Similarly, the bike has been running weird- I made a post about this a few months ago, but never was able to figure it out. The bike has been idling very high and bogging while letting out the clutch. I thought this was a carb issue, but I completely replaced the carbs with carbs a forum member sent me that were working perfectly, and the issue continued to occur

Is there any chance these issues are related? What else could be causing my bike to run so strangely? Why would the gas tank keep whistling after I relieve the pressure and open it up?

Thanks for your input and advice, I really appreciate it.

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Old July 10th, 2012, 07:06 AM   #12
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http://www.ninjette.org/wiki/Tank_whistling
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Old July 10th, 2012, 07:37 AM   #13
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So it has no relationship to my weird performance issues? And even after I open the gas tank the whistling will keep happening once it is shut. Not to mention that this is happening in all weather conditions, too. Not just the heat, this occurred all winter.
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Old July 10th, 2012, 07:48 AM   #14
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The newer ninjettes come with little gnomes in the tank and they like to scream and whine when locked in the dark.
Sometimes their shoes do fall off and get stuck in your fuel lines - that may be the other problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jboyd12 View Post
A low whistling sound has been coming out of the gas tank for a while now just sitting in the garage. Its a low whine that lasts a couple seconds, stops, and then happens again a few minutes later. I was told that this is due to a gas cap vent, and that as gas is used, the tank pulls in air and that if my vent is crap or broken it will continue to suck in air after the bike is off. However, I opened the cap and left it ajar for about half an hour, but once I lock it up again, the sound will keep happening. I'm really confused as to why this continues to happen, I'm not leaking any fuel.

Similarly, the bike has been running weird- I made a post about this a few months ago, but never was able to figure it out. The bike has been idling very high and bogging while letting out the clutch. I thought this was a carb issue, but I completely replaced the carbs with carbs a forum member sent me that were working perfectly, and the issue continued to occur

Is there any chance these issues are related? What else could be causing my bike to run so strangely? Why would the gas tank keep whistling after I relieve the pressure and open it up?

Thanks for your input and advice, I really appreciate it.
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Old July 10th, 2012, 07:53 AM   #15
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The fuel in the tank is still cooling. Once the fuel is the same temp as the outside air, the noise stops. Idling speed is adjustable, just set it around 1500 rpm after the bike is fully warmed up (preferably, after a ride of at least 20 - 30 minutes to confirm that everything is fully up to temp). The bogging is hard to diagnose online, it's really hard to tell if it's a bike issue or a technique issue. If the new carbs are doing the same thing as the old carbs, and the new ones were confirmed OK, then it does seem less likely there's something wrong with the bike. Is there anyone nearby who knows these bikes well who could help troubleshoot it with you?
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Old July 10th, 2012, 07:59 AM   #16
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Seems there is also a vacuum line that if left off can cause high idle and poor performance. Double check all your connection again. A second person is also a good idea here as we all overlook things at times. A buddy may walk up to and say "hey... where does this line go?"
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Old July 10th, 2012, 08:44 AM   #17
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
The fuel in the tank is still cooling. Once the fuel is the same temp as the outside air, the noise stops. Idling speed is adjustable, just set it around 1500 rpm after the bike is fully warmed up (preferably, after a ride of at least 20 - 30 minutes to confirm that everything is fully up to temp). The bogging is hard to diagnose online, it's really hard to tell if it's a bike issue or a technique issue. If the new carbs are doing the same thing as the old carbs, and the new ones were confirmed OK, then it does seem less likely there's something wrong with the bike. Is there anyone nearby who knows these bikes well who could help troubleshoot it with you?
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100215
^That is the thread I made a while ago when I was troubleshooting, hopefully it explains my problem a little better. I really don't think it is a technique issue - my boyfriend who has been riding all kinds of bikes for a long time is the one who noticed the bogging

Edit: This wasn't my original problem thread, not sure where that one went. This was just trying to get the carb on correctly, when my issues first occurred
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Old July 10th, 2012, 08:45 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by dubojr1 View Post
Seems there is also a vacuum line that if left off can cause high idle and poor performance. Double check all your connection again. A second person is also a good idea here as we all overlook things at times. A buddy may walk up to and say "hey... where does this line go?"
Check out the thread I linked to above just now, there's a pic with the way I set up the hoses to the carb, I was a little concerned at first, which is why I put it up like that and let me know if this is what you are referring to.
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Old July 10th, 2012, 09:56 AM   #19
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Yeah that would be it. Everything looks good though.
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Old July 10th, 2012, 09:59 AM   #20
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I'm trying to think what could be the issue that would not be a carb issue. If the problem remains the same with 2 different sets of carb's then I'm leaning away from a carb problem.
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Old July 10th, 2012, 10:07 AM   #21
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Yeah that would be it. Everything looks good though.
Yeah, hence my confusion. I'm thinking about bringing it somewhere and seeing if they can find the issue, but before I go blow over $200 I was hoping someone would have my solution
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Old July 10th, 2012, 10:08 AM   #22
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tank whistling is from the vents on the gas tank, as the fuel gets hot, it releases gas, and \\kawasaki made the vents too small, there are mods out there to open up the vents with dremel
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Old July 10th, 2012, 10:09 AM   #23
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Jen do you have the means to get us a small video of the symptom so we can hear it? Can it be duplicated easily so it can be recorded?
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Old July 10th, 2012, 10:10 AM   #24
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tank whistling is from the vents on the gas tank, as the fuel gets hot, it releases gas, and \\kawasaki made the vents too small, there are mods out there to open up the vents with dremel
We are past the tank whistle Eric...

Alex: Should we merge?
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Old July 10th, 2012, 10:16 AM   #25
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Jen do you have the means to get us a small video of the symptom so we can hear it? Can it be duplicated easily so it can be recorded?
Not sure what you mean? Like you said, I thought we were past the tank whistle? I can try to get a video of the high idling / bogging if you'd like later when I'm home, if thats what you were referring to
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Old July 10th, 2012, 10:20 AM   #26
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Not sure what you mean? Like you said, I thought we were past the tank whistle? I can try to get a video of the high idling / bogging if you'd like later when I'm home, if thats what you were referring to
Yeah the bog is what I'd like to hear. Before you record the bog though, let's try to lower the idle with the idle set. Are you familiar with it's location and use??
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Old July 10th, 2012, 10:24 AM   #27
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Yeah the bog is what I'd like to hear. Before you record the bog though, let's try to lower the idle with the idle set. Are you familiar with it's location and use??
I found a few youtube vids of people doing it, I should be okay. I'm sure my boyfriend knows how. I'll see if we can get a video of it when we get out of work. Thanks for your help
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Old July 10th, 2012, 10:42 AM   #28
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/merged 'em to keep the troubleshooting steps together for the more serious problem. Hope a fix is found soon!
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Old July 10th, 2012, 10:59 AM   #29
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Thanks, but it doesn't die on the gas anymore, that issue was fixed! Just a strange performance problem now, with bogging, not like when I started the thread.
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Old July 10th, 2012, 11:06 AM   #30
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Thanks, but it doesn't die on the gas anymore, that issue was fixed! Just a strange performance problem now, with bogging, not like when I started the thread.
Now that's sounding like a jetting issue. So let's be clear.

History: What mods have been done? Has the bike been stored for any extended periods recently?

Concerns: The bike runs but idles high. It bogs as it accelerates from a start but doesn't die. Any other concerns since the whine is normal?
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Old July 10th, 2012, 11:23 AM   #31
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Now that's sounding like a jetting issue. So let's be clear.

History: What mods have been done? Has the bike been stored for any extended periods recently?

Concerns: The bike runs but idles high. It bogs as it accelerates from a start but doesn't die. Any other concerns since the whine is normal?
History: None. Bike is bone stock. I bought it with 700 miles on it, and I thought that it had been sitting for a while (because of this performance problem) which is why I swapped the carbs with the other ones. The carbs I switched them to were not brand new but were from a forum member who said the carbs were in great condition and he never had problems with them.

Concerns: you said it perfectly, from what I understand. I can have my boyfriend explain it better later but he told me its like a bogging as you let out the clutch, and it runs like crap as well as idling high. But the bike does run.

This thread was from when I swapped the carbs to solve the original problem. The problem described in the thread - the gas cutting off - was due to a mismatched hose, as you can see from my response earlier
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Old July 10th, 2012, 11:37 AM   #32
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Ok. Sounds good.

I'd also like to know if the bog is only accelerating from a stop or does it bog at a particular rpm in every gear? I look forward to reading his description.
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Old July 10th, 2012, 05:01 PM   #33
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Ok. Sounds good.

I'd also like to know if the bog is only accelerating from a stop or does it bog at a particular rpm in every gear? I look forward to reading his description.
Bike only dies on the gas occasionally when leaving first gear. You have to rev it high and slip the clutch when you let it out or else it will die. there are idling issues in which the bike will warm up at a rather high idle then will idle down to standard / "normal" idle around 1,000 but if you ride the bike it will be very sluggish and boggish between 1 and 6 thousand rpm and then it will start pulling when its supposed to. you can stop the bike and it will idle at 1000rpm and if you rev it it will hang at about 4k for an excessive period of time, like a couple minutes, not even seconds. I've cleaned the carbs and swapped them out with perfectly good ones, i figured it was something with vacuum lines or the petcock on the gas tank. any help would be greatly appreciated before i take it to a shop and get owned
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Old July 10th, 2012, 05:09 PM   #34
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The idle isnt set high, its set to 800-1000 rpm it will randomly rev up and hold an idle of 3-4k for an extended period of time, and then it goes back down. its inconsistent
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Old July 11th, 2012, 04:38 AM   #35
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Bike only dies on the gas occasionally when leaving first gear. You have to rev it high and slip the clutch when you let it out or else it will die. there are idling issues in which the bike will warm up at a rather high idle then will idle down to standard / "normal" idle around 1,000 but if you ride the bike it will be very sluggish and boggish between 1 and 6 thousand rpm and then it will start pulling when its supposed to. you can stop the bike and it will idle at 1000rpm and if you rev it it will hang at about 4k for an excessive period of time, like a couple minutes, not even seconds. I've cleaned the carbs and swapped them out with perfectly good ones, i figured it was something with vacuum lines or the petcock on the gas tank. any help would be greatly appreciated before i take it to a shop and get owned
This one is hard because of the carb swap. Do we know why the guy/gal was selling the second set you bought? Were they a member here?

Overall though it sounds as if the bike is running poorly on the bottom part of the rpm range. To me this still screams jetting and/or pilot screw settings. Do we know if the carbs you bought were jetted or shimmed?

Here's a great chart that shows us what does what inside the carbs just you have a better understanding. Also understand that this may take some time to diagnose and each of us at some point have to decide whether we want to take the challenge on or let a pro handle it. That decision would be yours. I'm sure with the help of others on here we can resolve this though.

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Old July 11th, 2012, 05:10 AM   #36
jboyd12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubojr1 View Post
This one is hard because of the carb swap. Do we know why the guy/gal was selling the second set you bought? Were they a member here?

Overall though it sounds as if the bike is running poorly on the bottom part of the rpm range. To me this still screams jetting and/or pilot screw settings. Do we know if the carbs you bought were jetted or shimmed?

Here's a great chart that shows us what does what inside the carbs just you have a better understanding. Also understand that this may take some time to diagnose and each of us at some point have to decide whether we want to take the challenge on or let a pro handle it. That decision would be yours. I'm sure with the help of others on here we can resolve this though.
Yup - He is a member here. He was switching to fuel injection really nice guy, and didn't sell them to me- he just gave them to me for free so I know he really had no incentive to lie about their condition. Incredibly nice of him to give them to me like that. But yeah, he said he had no problems with them before and they were working perfectly before he decided to switch to fuel injected.

I believe the carbs were stock jetting. I figured I might as well post here and see if you guys had any major ideas or recommendation for troubleshooting it myself before bringing it somewhere... but it seems like it might just have to come down to that. Thanks for the pic.

And thanks for your help, I really appreciate your willingness to listen to my concerns and help me out with diagnostics.
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Old July 11th, 2012, 05:40 AM   #37
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No problem, that's what we are here for.

Let us know what the final resolution is. I'd love to know. Hopefully it's not something like a pinched fuel line or a clogged air filter (or aliens). lol
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Old July 11th, 2012, 06:21 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jboyd12 View Post
Bike only dies on the gas occasionally when leaving first gear. You have to rev it high and slip the clutch when you let it out or else it will die. there are idling issues in which the bike will warm up at a rather high idle then will idle down to standard / "normal" idle around 1,000 but if you ride the bike it will be very sluggish and boggish between 1 and 6 thousand rpm and then it will start pulling when its supposed to. you can stop the bike and it will idle at 1000rpm and if you rev it it will hang at about 4k for an excessive period of time, like a couple minutes, not even seconds. I've cleaned the carbs and swapped them out with perfectly good ones, i figured it was something with vacuum lines or the petcock on the gas tank. any help would be greatly appreciated before i take it to a shop and get owned
Simple stuff first: hanging idle sounds like an uber lean condition at idle. However, since this is still occurring with a different set of carbs as well, I'm betting on the bike, not the carbs. Are your carb boots properly attached to the carbs? Check all the connections (airbox to boots, boots to carbs, carbs to tubes, tubes to engine) by spraying wd-40 on each individual connection while the bike is idling. If the engine revs, you found a leaky point on your intake.

Sorry if that's already been suggested and tested, I might have missed it in all those posts.
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Old July 11th, 2012, 06:25 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choneofakind View Post
Simple stuff first: hanging idle sounds like an uber lean condition at idle. However, since this is still occurring with a different set of carbs as well, I'm betting on the bike, not the carbs. Are your carb boots properly attached to the carbs? Check all the connections (airbox to boots, boots to carbs, carbs to tubes, tubes to engine) by spraying wd-40 on each individual connection while the bike is idling. If the engine revs, you found a leaky point on your intake.

Sorry if that's already been suggested and tested, I might have missed it in all those posts.
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Great suggestions!
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Old July 11th, 2012, 09:45 PM   #40
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Quote:
This one is hard because of the carb swap. Do we know why the guy/gal was selling the second set you bought? Were they a member here?

Overall though it sounds as if the bike is running poorly on the bottom part of the rpm range. To me this still screams jetting and/or pilot screw settings. Do we know if the carbs you bought were jetted or shimmed?
The carbs should work fine, they were off my 2010 Ninja and only had ~600 miles on them before I swapped them for EFI. I had done nothing to them except uninstall them (I.E. no shimming or jetting). It ran perfectly fine before I took them out and they weren't sitting for very long before I shipped them.

If you feel like playing with the Jetting/Shimming of the needles, I do have a spare Dynojet stage 2 kit, this will let you remove the snorkel or upgrade to a k/n setup, probably make your bike much better.
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