Is the 250 a throw away bike for newbies?

[Jinx250]

It's amusing to read some of the excuses people use to justify their "upgrade" to a bigger machine. They are more focused on how fast they can go and the "perceived" shortcomings of hte 250 to focus on what's important - learning to ride properly. IMO, riding fast is not it, because any idiot can go fast in a straight line. Like I said in another thread, riding the 250 is like playing chess, you really have to concentrate while riding and learn some skills, whereas on a bigger bike, the extra power is often used to cover up poor form or a lack of riding skills.

Tragically, yes, the majority of people who buy 250s look at it as a throw away learner bike and never keep it long enough to relaize the bikes (and their own) potential. Personally, I don't even try to reason with people anymore when they are convinced they "need" a bigger bike. They'll either live or end up a smear on the pavement, only time will tell. I love my 250, others do not.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Jinx250

Like I said in another thread, riding the 250 is like playing chess, you really have to concentrate while riding and learn some skills, whereas on a bigger bike, the extra power is often used to cover up poor form or a lack of riding skills.

Huh?

Originally Posted by Jinx250

Tragically, yes, the majority of people who buy 250s look at it as a throw away learner bike and never keep it long enough to relaize the bikes (and their own) potential. Personally, I don't even try to reason with people anymore when they are convinced they "need" a bigger bike. They'll either live or end up a smear on the pavement, only time will tell. I love my 250, others do not.

The 250 was created and is associated as a starter bike hence why people upgrade. There's nothing wrong with that. Upgrading one or two months later would not be recommended but it can be done if the rider has a good head on his/her shoulder.

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by Jinx250

whereas on a bigger bike, the extra power is often used to cover up poor form or a lack of riding skills.

I disagree, and think that this is one of the misconceptions about upgrading. On the street, more power and more weight will usually exacerbate poor form...hence all of the crashing. Upgrading to a larger, more powerful motorcycle will not automatically make riding easier or more pleasurable.

[TS250]

I will tell you the same thing that I tell my wife, I will not get a new bike because I need it, but I will get a new bike because I want to. I love the looks of that bike ( 250r black 2008) it has all the trimmings I like. It's not the fastest, or the biggest, but it's like riding a moto gp on a the streets. I have other bikes, all bigger than 250, but this bike has all the looks and style of it's own. Once you fall in love with it, there is always room for it in you garage.

[Alex]

I think you two are actually agreeing. Having a bike with a whole bunch of extra power allows a newbie rider to tiptoe through corners, and gas it on the straights, to try and keep up with more experienced riders. I know I did that early on. The problem is that sooner or later, going that speed that easily means you enter corners you aren't ready for without the skills to deal with them properly. There are alot of "oh ****" moments. Doesn't mean that instant harm is guaranteed, or even likely. But what it does mean is that it takes a rider that much longer to become proficient with the things that really do matter. Those things, in my mind, are superior control of the bike in braking, turning, leaning, steering, swerving, shifting, and everything else that should soon come so naturally that you barely have to think of them, almost all of the way up to the physical capabilities of the bike. When someone does that with a moderately powered machine like the ninjette, the learning goes that much smoother.

There are very good reasons why competitive riders (or drivers) move up the ranks smoothly, starting with very little power and working their way up progressively to the highest levels of power and/or speed. Part of it is safety driven, but another part of it is the thought that people seem to ultimately learn skills best when they learn them progressively.

[headshrink]

Thinking back to the famous "Hurt Study" (1981), specifically the conclusions of the likelihood of a new rider going down in the first 6-12-24-48 months, etc., I wonder how different, if at all, the statistics would be if they specifically isolated the Ninjette in their analysis. That could be interesting.

If the results were significantly different, I would also want to know WHY.... is it a different psychology or type of rider, because I can't believe it is JUST the machine. But I will leave that to someone finishing their PhD in transportation who needs a dissertation idea.

[Nemesis]

Disagree on Alex's post.

It still takes more control, focus, skill cornering on a bigger bike than it does on a smaller less forgiving bike like the 250. I can whack the throttle in the turn and not worry about the rear slipping. On a bigger bike like a 600cc bike...forget it.

Heck, I still have issues cornering on my 600 than I do on a 250.

[Alex]

It's strange - I keep thinking that you are agreeing with people that you state you are disagreeing with.

Yes - people can get themselves into trouble while cornering with a larger displacement machine compared to one that doesn't have as much excess power. Poor throttle control can be much more dangerous. I agree. In fact, of all the things about motorcycle riding that our ninjette can teach us, throttle control is probably the one thing that it's not so great at. Only because smooth throttle control isn't as crucially important, when you can whack it full-on under almost all circumstances without the bike misbehaving much, if at all.

What a larger bike can do, is mask the fact that the rider hasn't learned appropriate cornering skills, and throttle control, and any other skill that really matters. Because the sheer fact that turning up the loud knob on the right handlebar while straight up and down allows them to accelerate faster and ultimately go faster, easier, than on a moderately powered bike. This belief by the rider ultimately turns out to be false, when their lack of actual skills can let them down when they really need them.

[Xoulrath]

[PlanB]

"It's more fun to drive a slow car (bike) fast than to drive a fast car (bike) slow."

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Alex

It's strange - I keep thinking that you are agreeing with people that you state you are disagreeing with.

Yes - people can get themselves into trouble while cornering with a larger displacement machine compared to one that doesn't have as much excess power. Poor throttle control can be much more dangerous. I agree. In fact, of all the things about motorcycle riding that our ninjette can teach us, throttle control is probably the one thing that it's not so great at. Only because smooth throttle control isn't as crucially important, when you can whack it full-on under almost all circumstances without the bike misbehaving much, if at all.

What a larger bike can do, is mask the fact that the rider hasn't learned appropriate cornering skills, and throttle control, and any other skill that really matters. Because the sheer fact that turning up the loud knob on the right handlebar while straight up and down allows them to accelerate faster and ultimately go faster, easier, than on a moderately powered bike. This belief by the rider ultimately turns out to be false, when their lack of actual skills can let them down when they really need them.

I disagree.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

I disagree.

I agree...

[Xoulrath]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

I disagree.

I disagree with your disagreeing...

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

I agree...

...and I disagree with your agreeing with him disagreeing...

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

I disagree with your disagreeing...

...and I disagree with your agreeing with him disagreeing...

I double disagree w/your disagreeing with my disagreeing with Alex not sure if I'm agreeing or disagreeing when all I'm trying to do is disagree.

Allz I'm saying is just ride and have fun doing it. <--Who dares to disagree with that?

[Xoulrath]

Ugh, my head hurts now...


LOL, I love this forum!

[setasai]

I feel like i'm reading my molecular bio textbook. All these damn pathways that ultimately do the same thing all the other 50 pathways do. Thank you for that.

[TrueFaith]

I saw a guy put a brand-new Gixxer through a chain-link fence one day while he was trying to impress his friends doing a wheelie. Just before it hit the fence it bounced off a curb and completely trashed the front wheel and fork. I overheard him say he had just bought it up the day before and he didn't realize the throttle was so sensitive. Easy come easy go.

[choneofakind]

Honestly, I bought my ninja last summer with the intention of buying a 600 this summer. Got riding around town and some basic turns and thought, "hey this is easy I'm a pro." Then I found some twisties. Kicked my butt. I've been continually working on positioning, looking thru turns, picking the best line, and being smooth while I'm doing it. The jump in control made the speed natural. This learning was all done on an OEM setup, and I made upgrades to the suspension and it makes riding well that much less stressful and that much more satisfying. I can actually leave behind my friends on 600's until we get to the straights. I absolutely plan on keeping my 250 until I'm done with college, but I also plan on buying a bigger bike, like a Daytona 675. I have learned so much from my ninja, and still have a ton to learn, and I'm convinced that if I had moved to a bigger bike already, or bought a 600 to start out with, I'd be injured now.

I do plan to get a bigger bike at some point and I want to ride every bike out there!!! I've got the itch. But I can assure you there will always be a 250 in my possession because no matter how you look at it, and no matter how much experience you have riding, a light, forgiving, economical, great handling sport bike is ALWAYS fun.

When I bought it, my friends dad (whos been riding for 20+ years) told me he's ridden one and it was an absolute blast and that I made a good choise

[Yasko]

Great thread...

I thank God I got for the lil Ninja as my 1st bike... I'm at a level that I think would have taken me 2x a long to achieve on a 600cc bike...

I think I would hate myself later if I sold the lil Ninja before I could ride it close to the edge...

That being said, I still have to get me one of these...

[choneofakind]

I agree with you. I would hate myself if I sold before I could ride it properly too. And great choice of bike to lust for! Good power, but more usable than the R6 from what I hear. I REEEAALLLY want a Triumph Daytona 675. Love the sound of that triple. Must wait patiently...

[headshrink]

One thing I think that wasn't mentioned.... the 250r is a great bike to learn how to do your own wrenching (this has saved me, and cost me, many dollars over the past 3 years).

[Jinx250]

Originally Posted by Jinx250

Like I said in another thread, riding the 250 is like playing chess, you really have to concentrate while riding and learn some skills, whereas on a bigger bike, the extra power is often used to cover up poor form or a lack of riding skills.

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Huh?

When you're in the twisties, you have to work and carry your speed into the corners. You also have to plan the moves you're going to make on the street, becuase the 250 is not a "point and shoot" type of bike with gobs of HP to "accelerate" out of a problem (another saying that I find highly amusing).

Originally Posted by Nemesis

The 250 was created and is associated as a starter bike hence why people upgrade. There's nothing wrong with that. Upgrading one or two months later would not be recommended but it can be done if the rider has a good head on his/her shoulder.

You're 100% right that it's marketed as a starter bike. But people spend waaay too much time trying to justify why they moved up, rather than just sayin "In MY opinion, I was ready." Nuff said then, don't give a line that it can't do freeway speed, or you maxed it out, etc.

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

I disagree, and think that this is one of the misconceptions about upgrading. On the street, more power and more weight will usually exacerbate poor form...hence all of the crashing. Upgrading to a larger, more powerful motorcycle will not automatically make riding easier or more pleasurable.

Actually, my point is that you can have 2 riders, one a highly skilled rider on a 250 and the other a newb on a 600. Send them through 2 laps of the same track. The 600's lap times will probably be the same as or better than the 250 simply because, while the newb can't do corners well or at all, it sure does fly down the straights.

[gogoKawi]

Originally Posted by Jinx250

When you're in the twisties, you have to work and carry your speed into the corners.

I have to disagree with you somewhat. It's ridiculous how fast you can take corners on the 250. Just flick the bike where you want it to go. On a bigger bike, you have to prepare a little earlier. I wish I could turn my ZX6 like my 250. I would be in heaven.

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

I disagree, and think that this is one of the misconceptions about upgrading. On the street, more power and more weight will usually exacerbate poor form...hence all of the crashing. Upgrading to a larger, more powerful motorcycle will not automatically make riding easier or more pleasurable.

My experience was just the opposite. When I moved up to the 600, it actually made me work on my form and ergos. I didn't realize how bad my form was until I started hitting the twisties. I couldn't just flick and go. I think for some people, like myself, the 250 is just so easy to ride that it actually masks poor form. It took me months to break some of my bad habits. I still have problems going between the 2 bikes.

[voidrider]

I got my '96 in 2003, and still have it, still love it.

This touches upon so many things...who a person is, what they project, what they feel represents the ideal bike....a myriad of personal and social aspects.

Here's MY reality: The bike is dependable, and affordable - example, tires, new set of Pirelli MT 75s for ~$120. My bike reliably gets mileages in the upper 50s and lower 60s (I blame ethanol gas, but I don't exactly ride with fuel economy in mind).

The bike DOES what I need it to do, get me from one place to another. It does it affordably, with a huge ratio of smiles to miles. The times it has left me feeling like I wanted more...two situations. 1. Powering up some steep mountain roads where it would have been nice to not have downshifted so much. Real solution: downshift and carry better speed through turns. 2. Interstate riding where, I realize my situational awareness isn't what it should be, and knowing this bike doesn't have "twitch and hit 100 mph to speed out of a bad situation". Real solution, get off the highway and take a rest, so you can be fresh in the game and use awareness to prevent bad situations from occurring.

I tend to favor a very "Un-American" sentiment, of "doing more with less". I ran across a bumper sticker I really like. I know it has a different intent, but "The more you know, the less you need", makes me smile when applied to motorcycles.

But, on another level, the bike is a tool, and a saw doesn't drive screws very well, and a hammer doesn't cut wood very well...so someday, I want my Ninja 250 for personal on road use, something for 2-up touring with my wife, and a dual sport.

Oh, don't get me wrong, part of me LUSTS for Kawi to start importing something like the ZXR 400...a personal dream bike. But, in reality, when I look at costs, and needs, and separate them from wants....the Ninja 250 fulfills my needs, if not my wants.

I ride for myself. I don't sweat that my bike doesn't look like the newest or greatest, as when I am riding I am not viewing the bike.

[Pyro]

I'm one of those new riders. The market here in South Africa is probably different to what you have in the states, but we do get the FI version of the Ninja

I intended getting a commuter only as a first bike to learn on, eyeing the mechanical simplicity of the Honda CBX-250 (think it's referred to as a CBF-250 in the states). It's a single cylinder, so has better low-end torue.

I got a my Kawa last week from a kid who was upgrading tot a 636 Kawa... But only managed to get about 50km in so far. I really need to get rain gear I also still need to get all the transfers done and get things fully insured.

The ultimate size-wise with current tech would probably be 400cc or so. Enough to get the mid-range torque up, but still small enough to keep things light.

Hopefully I can stick to my guns and keep the Ninjette long enough.

Up here on the highveld we can lose as much as 20% of the power due to lower air pressure; I'll still have enough power to commute, but it could become limiting if I want to have some fun on open roads.

[komohana]

i'm a prior 700 Interceptor and 600 Shadow owner. i've rented HD Heritage and Road Kings to scratch the riding itch 'tween ownerships. when the time came to look for a bike, the 250 was no where on the wish list. when a steal of a deal for a pre gen came my way i gave the bike due consideration. before meeting my future mistress i imagined myself being too big for the bike, but when i took her for a test spin i was sold on it's ease of handling. perfect for kauai riding. i bought her the next day and immediately headed for the local twisties. that ride on THEEE road to master on this island was a totally new experience. my skills never brought me close to my Interceptor's capabilities. miles logged and years later, i don't believe i'll be riding my 250 anywhere near what IT is capable of doing.

bruddah kelly hit the nail on the head re: marketing.
most people who jab me for riding a 250 either don't know the bike or don't ride period.

do i miss the power? not so much.
it's not the speed that kills ya, it's the sudden stop. i'm going as fast as i want to. all that other stuff doesn't matter because whenever i'm riding my bike i got this huge ass behind my tinted visor like i know a secret no one else does...
...but that's just me

[sowega]

If you like what you ride, then who cares?

I've only been on the forum for a few short weeks, but it seems like there's a large segment of the membership with an inferiority complex about their bikes and what other riders think of them. You don't need to justify anything to anyone; just ride the bike and enjoy yourselves!

[00NissanNinja]

Originally Posted by sowega

If you like what you ride, then who cares?

I've only been on the forum for a few short weeks, but it seems like there's a large segment of the membership with an inferiority complex about their bikes and what other riders think of them. You don't need to justify anything to anyone; just ride the bike and enjoy yourselves!

Agreed!

[littledog]

Is the 250 a throw away bike for newbies?

Let me see if I can ask the same question without insulting new riders sensible enough to pick an appropriate machine to learn on and without implying the ninja lacks long term utility.

Is the ninja 250 a good first motorcycle?

Why yes I think it is very good. Small, lightweight (for a motorcycle) powerful enough to keep pace with most any traffic, yet not so powerful that a clutch bumble or a right wrist snatch is a sure wreck. As several have pointed out, it is not just a good first motorcycle, it is a good motorcycle, period. It is extremely reliable and cheap to run and maintain so it is a good commuter. Fun on winding roads ? for sure it is.

However, a first motorcycle being good doesn't rule out a second motorcycle. A new rider may ride the ninja for a while, decide they really like motorcycling but would rather have something other than a ninja 250 for a wide variety of reasons.

Me personally I rode the ninja for 32,500 miles, loved it, but now it is sold. I dont miss it because now I have a bike that seems better suited to give me what I want from a motorcycle.

[red]

The 250R is the smallest displacement real motorcycle I've ever bought. I am upgrading in reverse it seems, but not downgrading. It's part of the garage family now.

While my original intention was to keep it in the stable as a less intimidating and less expensive bike for young riders in my family to learn with and make smaller mistakes, I ride it now more than they do. I'm likely to keep it forever.

It's a blast *because* it's a 250: light, simple, nimble, willing, and cheap to feed.

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by Jinx250

Actually, my point is that you can have 2 riders, one a highly skilled rider on a 250 and the other a newb on a 600. Send them through 2 laps of the same track. The 600's lap times will probably be the same as or better than the 250 simply because, while the newb can't do corners well or at all, it sure does fly down the straights.

I know the point that you and Alex are trying to make, but this isn't a discussion about the track. It's a discussion about noobs starting out on a larger bike, or progressing too quickly up to a larger bike on the street. I've said before that the 250 can do all kinds of things in the right hands.

Originally Posted by gogoKawi

My experience was just the opposite. When I moved up to the 600, it actually made me work on my form and ergos. I didn't realize how bad my form was until I started hitting the twisties. I couldn't just flick and go. I think for some people, like myself, the 250 is just so easy to ride that it actually masks poor form. It took me months to break some of my bad habits. I still have problems going between the 2 bikes.

This was my experience as well. That said, however, I feel that my experience on the 250, as well as my years of experience as a driver, helped me stay safe on my bigger motorcycle.

The argument here isn't about the 250....moreso I think it's about the riders who ditch the 250 in favor of larger, "real" motorcycles. The ninja 250 is a fantastic bike...not just for beginners, but for all riders. The problem, though, is that it cannot teach newer riders how to ride a larger motorcycle. In that respect, the 250 is far too forgiving. If someone wants to learn how to ride a supersport...they'll eventually have to ride a supersport. That's just reality. It doesn't mean that the 250 is somehow not a "real" motorcycle by any means. Quite the opposite IMO. Once you have the experience of riding larger, faster bikes, it's then that you can really see what the 250 is capable of. That bike is a damn hooligan machine....

[the big mike]

Ninjette.org made me love my ninja 250r even more :-)

[kaiserz]

I love my 250, as a new rider my goal is to learn to ride and then get a bigger bike, (you can't blame me I'm a guy, for some reason guys like it bigger) but as I learn more, read more, experience more, i got it down to my head that it's only a "big bike complex" why newer riders wants to upgrade(why i want to upgrade anyway), but now i realize that i don't need a big bike, a smaller bike that i can push hard is much better than a bigger one that i'll ride slow

but I'm still planning on getting a 675(someday) but i'm still keep my baby ninja (;

[Live2ride]

I honestly don't understand how people decide to upgrade and sell their 250's after only 1k-3k miles. I've ridden 1250 miles since I got my bike about 3-4 weeks ago and I don't think there is any way someone could get even close to comfortable enough on this bike to move up to a supersport with such low mileage. I was a natural when I began riding motorcycles and I love this bike. I considered buying a 600-1000cc bike as my first and I still feel like I could have handled either one but why would I ever need a liter bike on the street? The 250 is affordable for insurance, gas, and parts and has enough getup and go for about 99% of all street riding. I know I'll eventually buy another bike, probably a 600cc but I don't see that happening anytime soon. I have never ridden anything above a 250cc but I hope to find someone willing to let me ride their bike for a short ride some time just to test it out and compare it to my 250.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by Jinx250

Actually, my point is that you can have 2 riders, one a highly skilled rider on a 250 and the other a newb on a 600. Send them through 2 laps of the same track. The 600's lap times will probably be the same as or better than the 250 simply because, while the newb can't do corners well or at all, it sure does fly down the straights.

Not to sure about this one.
I lapped damn near the whole I-Group in a 20 min session on my 250. Starting at the back of the pack, no less... A newb on a 600 is easy prey for and experienced track junkie on a 250.
The only way a newb on a 600 is going to be faster is if theres a couple 2000+' straights on the track.

To the OP
Upgrade if you want. Why seek "approval" from fellow riders?

Go take some Trackdays on your 250.
Get a good set of new rubber. (BT-16's or Sport Demons, whatever) Wear that set of tires bald at the track. Then think about your upgrade. Most people have NO Idea how fast a "little" 250 can be.
In my experience the track was the best "teacher" I ever had. Having an experienced instructor, help you past your bad habbits and newb ways is worth every penny.
Control at the track at mega speeds, means control on the street at sane speeds.

After a couple track days, I promise, you'll soon learn that the bikes capability far exceeds your own.

[Hitman]

My 250r is my daily bike and gets the most fun miles.
My 600 is my weekend bike.

[Memengkamatis]

My first bike was a Honda Cub, then a '75 KZ 400; followed by an '84 HD 883 which got stolen that I replaced with a '98 Vulcan 800B. A neighbor's kid was "upgrading" so I bought his '00 Ninja 250 which I later sold and acquired an '06 BMW K1200R. Last November, I picked up a '07 Ninja 250R with just 1067 miles for $1700.00. I used the 250R for my daily work commute. The Vulcan which I still have and the Beemer for fast, long distance tours. Went to Daytona last March on the Beemer from North Jersey. The Ninjette outruns the cars, buses and taxis on congested roads and avenues of New York City from light to light while lane-splitting with the messenger bicycles That's what I call "fun". Subway/bus fare is $2.25 one way. $4.50 gasoline on the Ninja last 4 days. My insurance is only $126.00 bucks a year. Of course, come wintertime I don't ride when there's snow on the ground. I do have Gerbings heated apparel that I plug in a Powerlet plug wired directly to the battery. Throwaway? for those posers, mayhap but not for me. I is having so much fun with it while saving my money on beer and fast women. LOL Ride safe y'all.

Meng

[00NissanNinja]

I'm still content with my 250r after a year and 7,000 miles of riding. I just rode a KTM 990 smr and I was like man my 250r is just way more fun and simplier to ride than this hurky jurky thing. I guess when it comes down to it its just whether you are satisfied with what you have or not.

[dtyndall]

I definitely don't think that the 250R is a "throwaway bike" for newcomers to the sport. I bought a 2008 model the day I turned 18, with only a minor amount of dirtbike experience to aid me. I laid the bike down a couple of times and learned some valuable lessons in both the extent of my skills and bike, as well as patience.

The 250R is admittedly underpowered compared to almost any other motorcycle out there, but if it's your first bike, you won't know any better anyway. I can definitely say I have had a blast for the past three years, accumulating over 21,000 miles on it in varying degrees of weather, on various types of tarmac, etc. As I have grown up, I have grown to really appreciate the bike and its personality.

I moved up to a 2011 Ninja 1000 after three years of riding the 250 every day. To give you an idea as to the versatility and awesomeness of the 250, I kept it instead of selling/trading it in. I think this fact speaks well for the bike's strengths and attributes.

[TS250]

I was at the hardware store yesterday, and ( no disrespect to anyone at all) there was a kid with a 'Busa with all the mods, clip ons, lowered, swing arm, you get the picture. I could not stop looking at it, but not in a good way. They are the ugliest bikes on the road. I look at my 250 like a little kid that ran around making motorcycle noises and twisting your hand ridin' this fantasy bike, that is the 250 r to me. Yes, parked next to my others is very small and not as fast, but is a piece of art. At last to me. Next year I will get a Ducati, but never getting rid of my 250.